General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,713 posts)

192. Thoracic outlet syndrome

Tue Mar 27, 2018, 07:51 PM

Mar 2018

The top rib, collarbone, and sternum create a small opening that veins, muscles, arteries, and nerves run though. Most people with TOS get nerve damage from the pinch. I got blood clots - and an eggplant for an arm for about a month in the 80s (the clot blocked all blood return through the outlet back to the heart). In that era, they had no treatment - and since they failed at busting up the clot - I was not expected to have full use of my arm. Thankfully, I had humble doctors who were willing to share everything they knew with me and - at my suggestion - we devised an exercise plan that leveraged the body's need to get that blood out of my arm. I'm one of the few from that era with full recovery.

Fast forward to 2009 - they now have better tools in their toolbox - and the solution when it popped up on the other side is to remove the top rib and open up the outlet to eliminate the pinch.

Post-mortem studies indicate that most people with my version have a birth defect - cartilage that extends too far into the outlet, combined with arm rotation (swimmers & pitchers) or upper body weightlifters. My vice was swimming - and for a brief relapse in the late 90s, since I didn't yet know any better, upper body weightlifting.

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Medicare Is Cracking Down on Opioids. Doctors Fear Pain Patients Will Suffer. [View all] RKP5637 Mar 2018 OP

My grandmother with crippling pain from arthritis Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #1

As often happens in the US, they go after the majority than focusing on where the problem is and RKP5637 Mar 2018 #5

My 80 plus friend was taking morphine for arthritic pain. riverbendviewgal Mar 2018 #10

MM should absolutely be available nationwide; of course, it isn't. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #105

I am nearing 80 quartz007 Mar 2018 #180

Wonderful. riverbendviewgal Mar 2018 #189

thank you quartz007 Mar 2018 #199

Kratom or unwashed poppy seeds. Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #2

There are other ways to manage through pain than narcotics blake2012 Mar 2018 #3

I'm never that blunt about it. Aristus Mar 2018 #7

We need a bunch just like you helping ramp down this addiction blake2012 Mar 2018 #11

Sure you're on the right website? n/t MicaelS Mar 2018 #37

Yes. How is it that my desire to see medical community reverse opioid epidemic blake2012 Mar 2018 #43

+1,000 !! CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #87

Naproxen Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #12

Thank you. Internet doctors, particularly ones who tout drug warrior propaganda kcr Mar 2018 #18

Naproxen's cousin Ibuprofen almost killed me CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #80

After surgery and massive antibiotics for Staph A in my heart, BobTheSubgenius Mar 2018 #88

I wish I'd known CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #117

Ibuprofen is the only OTC pain med that works for me dhol82 Mar 2018 #150

I still take it ocassionally - Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #154

Thanks for the tip dhol82 Mar 2018 #158

For me the soreness is associated with a cold - Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #160

Acetaminophen gives me extremely high blood pressure despite my medication. It gets RKP5637 Mar 2018 #208

Thank you..I just tossed bottle of Naproxen quartz007 Mar 2018 #186

For years I used naproxen and piroxicam to control the pain from my knees csziggy Mar 2018 #32

It absolutely makes my head EXPLODE that we would under medicate people with Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #46

No. Absolutely not. Cancer patients, post-operative patients, Aristus Mar 2018 #51

Been there, done that. I know what you mean. How do you gauge when they have an injury Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #56

I do an appropriate workup to assess injury or any etiology for chronic pain. Aristus Mar 2018 #59

what gives you the right to decide who will or won't be allowed to stop their own suffering? you mus TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #61

Well, state regulators, for one thing. Aristus Mar 2018 #76

like i said, conscienceless. "saying it's your job don't make it right." yeah, you keep your licen TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #81

Your indignation would be a lot sexier Aristus Mar 2018 #90

Lol blake2012 Mar 2018 #92

Post removed Post removed Mar 2018 #93

Wow. This just gets better and better. Aristus Mar 2018 #98

I think you nailed it blake2012 Mar 2018 #106

i think you need to work on your bedside manner, or move to the morgue. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #114

he better not Skittles Mar 2018 #119

HA! Aristus Mar 2018 #120

I, too, work under a license (not medical, speech-language pathology) phylny Mar 2018 #164

LOL Skittles Mar 2018 #116

Sounds like you know what you are doing. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #62

well remember, laws are for the little people; when doctors or other big-shots have pain, severe or TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #64

UNFAIR, most docs are great people who do care ...this is not their fault Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #65

to be honest, i would err on the side of believing the patient. and while i understand that doctors TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #70

Vast majority of docs I have dealt with are just fine. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #77

not going to disagree, but my experience has been different; i have a weird auto-immune thing TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #83

Oh really how nice that you can crawl into another's body and experience their pain. How does that Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #239

so if a person is days away from death, you will "allow" them to have relief from their pain? that's TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #72

I don't work in palliative care. Aristus Mar 2018 #78

i'm not sure if that's good or bad; maybe you should go into pathology, or some other field TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #84

Kharosho. Spaseeba, tovarisch. Aristus Mar 2018 #100

So you extend your experience with one person who is clearly drug-seeking Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #126

Post removed Post removed Mar 2018 #129

Post removed Post removed Mar 2018 #133

because national health statistics show it's not enough of an exception blake2012 Mar 2018 #137

the people ODing are not the ones complaining about this government over-reach; those people are TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #140

So my grandmother should suffer, and bear the cost Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #151

that is already not true...people with chronic pain are already denied prescription pain pills in il questionseverything Mar 2018 #222

I'll never forget how I was treated when I lost (half) prescription fescuerescue Mar 2018 #249

Are you an MD? GusBob Mar 2018 #149

No. He isn't. n/t Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #213

As a healthcare provider, you can appreciate... Dave Starsky Mar 2018 #178

tough shit? goodbye spanone Mar 2018 #16

tough shit, eh? RussBLib Mar 2018 #21

I'm with you. spanone Mar 2018 #25

K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #30

+1,000 !! CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #42

yep; STFU and suffer until you die, so that i can feel smugly self-righteous in my anti-drug purity. TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #60

with all due respect, mind you own f-in business. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #57

This affects us all. Try hearing stories of husbands who lost wives or blake2012 Mar 2018 #58

so what about the people who have loved ones suffering without adequate pain relief? find a way to TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #63

No it is not. Any rules put in place in April wint Kick in until Jan 2019 blake2012 Mar 2018 #67

other regs have already gone into place, that are affecting non-medicare patients; don't their lives TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #75

Physician... heal thyself. LanternWaste Mar 2018 #220

As a person with chronic pain pazzyanne Mar 2018 #103

i feel you. unfortunately, our Masters couldn't care less. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #108

These medicines have a place in our treatment protocols. MuseRider Mar 2018 #135

I think you and I are in more agreement than you may realize blake2012 Mar 2018 #139

What an uninformed post. Cattledog Mar 2018 #155

Smaller quantities more frequently Betty88 Mar 2018 #161

I found pain relief much better using Tylenol for arthritis riverbendviewgal Mar 2018 #4

Did you have rheumatoid arthritis? n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #6

I did before my heart attack. riverbendviewgal Mar 2018 #8

Thanks! RKP5637 Mar 2018 #9

My niece has long term lyme disease and this has caused terrible arthritis. She is without a doubt Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #240

I worked in a hospital once a long time ago where some drs. prescribed shock therapy for RKP5637 Mar 2018 #252

She would die without pain medication. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #254

Yes, definitely she would. It was ridiculous the patients where I worked were not given all of the RKP5637 Mar 2018 #255

It is inhumane. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #256

not everyone's pain is the same; some pain is not inflammatory, so NSAIDs do nothing, except give TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #54

And tylenol kills your liver if you take it regularly. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #235

goddamn it. I occasionally need them for kidney stones. spanone Mar 2018 #13

My spouse is in that situation as well. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #15

same way. i'm having lithotripsy next monday kidney 1 - following monday kidney 2 spanone Mar 2018 #17

Good luck. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #22

it is amazing. spanone Mar 2018 #24

If they withheld them from you in the case of a kidney stone I would be furious Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #48

They don't generally withhold them - Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #159

what do they normally prescribe? they give you a shot on site also, right? Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #171

The first time, they hooked her up to a morphine drip Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #176

My doc told me joint replacement is the most painful, would that include hip surgery? Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #179

No joint surgery Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #181

Rib removal? Wow Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #183

Thoracic outlet syndrome Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #192

Had my sternum fractured in a car accident Heartstrings Mar 2018 #195

They withheld them from me when I had a kidney stone. Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #214

The very idea this happened to you makes me want to scream. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #221

I'm afraid of what's going to happen to me... Kittycow Mar 2018 #14

I deaths are caused when people become addicted, cannot renew prescription blake2012 Mar 2018 #19

I rarely say things like this - Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #23

I am rethinking the way I expressed it. I lost 2 close relatives to cancer blake2012 Mar 2018 #29

No, making someone get a new Triplicate scrip every week , that they have to physically pick up Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #52

thank you; the current situation is criminal, and i'm not talking about the "addicts." nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #99

TPTB and rich fucks will get their medication. The little people of America, the majority, will RKP5637 Mar 2018 #209

The challenge is that imposing draconian limitations and barriers to needed pain meds Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #144

+1 CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #38

so your solution is to never allow people to have pain relief, so they won't get "addicted?" or to TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #69

I think there should be a bit more flexibility blake2012 Mar 2018 #73

that train has already left the station; people are suffering NOW, and this latest move is a step in TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #79

This epidemic was caused by medical negligence or at least wrong thinking blake2012 Mar 2018 #89

so what has caused every other drug "epidemic" this country has experienced? whatever the cause, TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #96

Here in Ohio...the addicts don't have prescriptions...they make the shit used. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #236

It was the stone age as far as pain relief. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #162

My oldest son tazkcmo Mar 2018 #94

Im sorry for your loss. No one is prescribing no treatment for chronic pain blake2012 Mar 2018 #101

YES THEY ARE!!!! what planet are you living on??? and gee, despite your run-in with percocet, you' TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #118

I strongly support what you said. pazzyanne Mar 2018 #132

Really? I still have morphine pills from the 90s... WyattKansas Mar 2018 #122

I don't think that happens that much, but the answer is not to end Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #241

We need balance. Doctors should be able to do brief write ups for waivers blake2012 Mar 2018 #250

As usual in the US with some of the idiots that make decisions, millions will suffer. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #20

Yep. They will suffer because of puritanical moralizing bullshit. kcr Mar 2018 #31

Feeling pain is the godly thing to do. Pray the pain away. We often live in a bullshit society! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #35

Try those thoughts & prayers CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #39

Mother Teresa thought that letting her patients suffer in pain with nothing to relieve it brought smirkymonkey Mar 2018 #172

Suffering is such a wonderful thing when it's someone else's. Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #216

couldn't have said it better!!! ain't the Land Of The Free great? nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #86

They tried to cut my 90 year old aunt off CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #33

it's so stupid and cold-hearted RussBLib Mar 2018 #28

Mexico; i'm seriously considering it. how messed up is it when people in america have to literally TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #113

Last fall I read an article about a study finding increased alcohol use by elderly. suffragette Mar 2018 #26

Researchers are often not too bright. To me it's obvious why some older people drink. RKP5637 Mar 2018 #34

"research" is often driven by politics and dollars. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #50

Yep, sadly quite true. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #107

If "old" people can't get the pain OldHippieChick Mar 2018 #66

i wish i could turn to alcohol, but it makes me sick, so i'm just screwed. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #85

I wish we could try pot, but illegal as hell here. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #110

yep; the government tools will throw you in jail without a second thought, for having the audacity TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #121

And it's my fucken body. Damn, I am so fed up with this shit in the US. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #141

Given what a high percentage of opioids on the black market originated Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #27

Thank you! Was starting to feel out of sorts like reversing a negative trend is a bad thing blake2012 Mar 2018 #45

which negative trend do you think has been reversed? as this article noted, OD deaths continue to ri TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #49

Please read more deeply on the subject blake2012 Mar 2018 #55

i hope you get an excruciatingly painful chronic disease, and can get absolutely no pain relief. TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #47

Well I hope your never lose someone you love to opioid abuse Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #53

like i said, what about all the other people whose lives are ruined, ended, or diminished by the TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #91

Were not discussing prohibiting opioids. Straw man argument blake2012 Mar 2018 #95

oh yes you are; you aren't fooling anybody. if you have to literally be dying to be "entitled" to pa TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #97

No one made that claim either blake2012 Mar 2018 #104

That is what the ultimate outcome will be. Only those with influence and power will get medication Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #243

What you said is not true. Shorter duration of prescription blake2012 Mar 2018 #245

My sister in law was forced into pain management...and if the rules tighten more, she won't get it Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #246

Nobody is saying ban all opioids for those in true need Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #125

Why should elderly folks , many who have pain issues, pay the price for opioid addiction hysteria. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #233

Yeah sure, because suicide is so much better than an overdose. NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #109

Huh? Are you not acknowledging the high death toll due to opioid OD? blake2012 Mar 2018 #112

People arent dying from prescribed pain pills. NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #123

correct; nobody OD's on 2-3 tramadols/day. now we still have the OD deaths, and we've got people suf TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #127

you are wrong. please read through this to become better informed as to cause of opioid epidemic blake2012 Mar 2018 #128

really? people OD on 2-3 tramadols/day? or do they take a handful, get street heroin, and mix it wi TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #145

No I'm Right, and Research backs me up. NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #153

another quick article from drugabuse.gov blake2012 Mar 2018 #163

what about alcohol, cigarettes, car crashes, etc.? apparently nobody cares about those people. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #124

they do. were you someone who groused about laws forcing you to war a seat belt? blake2012 Mar 2018 #130

FAR MORE people die due to alcohol and cigs; should we have to get gov't/doctor approval before TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #148

They're not dying from taking pain medication - it's black tar heroin mixed with synthetic opiates NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #156

wrong blake2012 Mar 2018 #165

*Yawn* Did they pay you to post this? NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #173

why would you say that? blake2012 Mar 2018 #174

I'm tired of propaganda. I'm tired of moral panics. NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #177

you're really linking to Reason magazine? blake2012 Mar 2018 #182

And you're linking to the Trump Regime. I figured it fit right in. nt NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #184

now all of the rank and file departments within federal government are Trump? blake2012 Mar 2018 #185

It didn't go unnoticed that the rest of that previous post was ignored. NutmegYankee Mar 2018 #188

The folks who want to prevent you from getting your needed drugs arent in pain Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #68

see #64. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #102

Oh my the horror, we must of course stop all pain medication and ADD medication. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #242

I knew it, I knew this FUCKER would kill people eventually, pain kills. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #36

Pain prevents healing CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #40

We are under attack, we are at war. The right is trying to kill us, not just liberals but all of us Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #41

people are ALREADY suffering from this. the War on Drugs is a war on people. it's BS. TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #44

A true story here CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #74

guarantee you that person is not the only one who thought of that. heroin is cheaper on the black TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #136

I would be out of the US in an instant, but I have no options. The US is crazy in so many ways. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #115

i hear you. stay strong, as much as possible. nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #131

It's never ending in the US. One damn punitive thing after another. Greatest place to live? RKP5637 Mar 2018 #142

I am sick of it CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #147

unfortunately, it looks like it's only going to get worse. the War on Drugs has been a fabulous TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #152

Good. Opiods are rarely used elsewhere in the world. Le Gaucher Mar 2018 #71

What do they use, for example, after a major operation? n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #111

See reply below .. My cousin got nothing more than a Tylenol after the anesthesia wore off Le Gaucher Mar 2018 #170

And you think that is a good thing? Percocet and hydrocodone are pain drugs and would Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #244

you're kidding, right? they might not use pharm. pills, but the opium is quite popular around the wo TheFrenchRazor Mar 2018 #134

No .. my cousin in Germany did not get an opiod after C-SECTION Le Gaucher Mar 2018 #169

C-sections are not especially painful surgeries. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #198

My wife got a Percocet and hydrocodone for a C-section recovery Le Gaucher Mar 2018 #200

That is not true...if they open the abdomen, it is one of the most painful surgeries there are...the Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #247

Link because I don't believe that and lets concentrate on places where health care is available. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #234

The threat of withdrawal is a serious issue. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2018 #82

I am having rotator cuff surgery in a coupe weeks, apparently without prescription painkillers. Shrike47 Mar 2018 #138

I wish you luck CountAllVotes Mar 2018 #143

I've had some major surgery that hurt like hell with ample pain medication. I can't imagine going RKP5637 Mar 2018 #146

I'd be finding another doctor. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #157

the other poster said "non opioid" pain relief would not be used blake2012 Mar 2018 #166

I'd still be finding another doctor. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #168

Like what? There is no effective pain relief without opioids for many. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #237

I'd love for the opioid fear-mongers to break their pelis raven mad Mar 2018 #167

More reason we need to legalize marijuana ASAP WestwardWind Mar 2018 #175

I wanted to weigh in on this GaYellowDawg Mar 2018 #187

how long were you on the oxycodone if I may ask prior to finding out antihistamine was the solution? blake2012 Mar 2018 #191

Close to 2 months. GaYellowDawg Mar 2018 #215

Wow. Definitely understand. Pain is unbelievable to deal with. Only limited experience for me blake2012 Mar 2018 #217

Very well said. I really think those professing they are not needed have never been subjected to RKP5637 Mar 2018 #202

Ive not seen one person claiming pain meds arent needed blake2012 Mar 2018 #210

Someway, there needs to be a dividing line. Is it the pharmaceutical companies pushing drugs and/or RKP5637 Mar 2018 #211

I wholeheartedly agree with your post blake2012 Mar 2018 #212

I'm Libertarian on this issue MaryMagdaline Mar 2018 #190

wow blake2012 Mar 2018 #193

Agree completely. n/t MicaelS Mar 2018 #196

I agree. People should be in control of their own bodies. The gov. should go after the abusers, not RKP5637 Mar 2018 #203

The black market has been alive and well for a while tymorial Mar 2018 #194

They are stupid laws that TPTB enact to say see, we did something. It's stupid and absurd. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #204

I stand with the people who will be denied pain meds for legit pain. aikoaiko Mar 2018 #197

K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #206

Hasnt there been multiple studies recently tammywammy Mar 2018 #201

One study kcr Mar 2018 #205

I think it depends on the type of pain. I take prescription Naproxen for arthritis, twice a day, RKP5637 Mar 2018 #207

No. n/t Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #218

opiods enid602 Mar 2018 #219

Until very recently, codeine was an OTC medication there. Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #223

opioid use enid602 Mar 2018 #224

Nothing in there about the UK. Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #225

UK enid602 Mar 2018 #226

They don't use it for addicts. They use it in hospitals for management of severe pain. Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #227

UK enid602 Mar 2018 #228

And they sometimes administer heroin to children, and codeine has been freely available OTC. n/t Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #230

Some people are just addictive; everyone else shouldn't pay price. radius777 Mar 2018 #229

Well said!!! Exactly!!! We see this crap all the time, the moral crusaders to punish all because of RKP5637 Mar 2018 #231

Exactly, the abusers will find it somewhere and the innocent will suffer needlessly. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #238

This is going to do the opposite of what is intended. alarimer Mar 2018 #232

K&R !!!!! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #251

And then we wonder why Heroin addiction rates are sky rocketing fescuerescue Mar 2018 #248

Often the US is void of intelligence. The US fuels black market things and then wonders why. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2018 #253