General Discussion

PoorMonger

(844 posts)

44. I take your point

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 11:08 AM

Mar 2018

Though I still like Joe Biden, a lot - just as I did ( and still do) like Hillary.

It’s clearly unfair that she was knocked for all those reasons of experience , longevity, etc. Though it’s also not surprising that after seeing Trump in action people are hungry for those very things to return to the Presidency. It’s also a cruelty that Hillary won’t ever get the credit for getting the women firmly on-side for us Democrats. I think that the visceral response to Trump has now taken the narrative to a place where his awfulness gets credit for increased activism.

If Joe runs I would love to see a VP pick like Harris at least. Not just because I think we need to lean on women and POC as our base , but because she strikes a good balance of fresh and fearless leadership and always seems ready to defend our positions with a clear voice.

My brother asked the other day if Biden and Obama could just flip the ticket and run that way.. I honestly don’t know if that’s possible but I would certainly feel comfortable with it. I’m sure the RWNJ would scream dictator though - but that’s probably true no matter what we do now.

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Do y'all realize how much the Joe Biden "frontrunner" talk smacks of white male entitlement? [View all] EffieBlack Mar 2018 OP

Person of color here who loves Joe Biden. IluvPitties Mar 2018 #1

Person of European descent here thinking he's often out of touch. DemocracyMouse Mar 2018 #97

Just another person who thinks Joe's time has come and gone. There are better candidates we have to still_one Mar 2018 #127

Senior citizen here Taraman Mar 2018 #112

Yep. lillypaddle Mar 2018 #125

Agreed, time for the 70 somethings to step aside... Magoo48 Mar 2018 #173

I once spent an afternoon with Freeman Dyson... NNadir Mar 2018 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author David__77 Mar 2018 #2

I prefer Biden (the first VP to serve under the first Black president of the US) to the others. FreepFryer Mar 2018 #3

If you think this is a "racist frame" you must not have read my entire OP EffieBlack Mar 2018 #11

I didn't say it was - I'm saying my preference for Biden is not based in racial/gender bias... FreepFryer Mar 2018 #16

"you completely missed the point." NCTraveler Mar 2018 #40

Agreed - and many will get it, and reject it even while understanding white male privilege. (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #73

Yes, they will. Nt NCTraveler Mar 2018 #79

Or perhaps people don't take it seriously given the last frontrunner mythology Mar 2018 #248

Are you serious? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #249

So when you wrote this in your OP it had NOTHING to with race ?? see vkkv Mar 2018 #93

Um - talking about race is not a "racist frame" EffieBlack Mar 2018 #100

It is when you are telling that Joe Biden is the front runner b/c he is white. You called it vkkv Mar 2018 #104

Because white entitlement/privilege is not the same as racism. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #133

They are not the same, but white entlement / privilege is racist. see text vkkv Mar 2018 #188

I brought up white male privilege - why are you focusing only on the white part EffieBlack Mar 2018 #192

Most of what you say is correct, however, your OP did not mention ONE SINGLE quality of vkkv Mar 2018 #196

Effie, the reality is that Hillary was under a masked attack. Blue_true Mar 2018 #239

This post only makes sense if SomethingNew Mar 2018 #4

We really are look closely at the sexist side of things elehhhhna Mar 2018 #207

Or if you are drunk. Drahthaardogs Mar 2018 #246

You should drink more wine EffieBlack Mar 2018 #253

I think people are just trying to figure out how to beat Trump leftstreet Mar 2018 #5

No I like Joe and I got to say if Sen. Sanders runs, and I hope he doesn't, we need a strong Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #27

Ha. progressoid Mar 2018 #148

I actually don't have hard feeling for Sanders...but I notice you rush to his defense even when its Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #183

You know this is the internet right? progressoid Mar 2018 #201

My concern is the next presidential election. I believe him to be divisive and that could cause Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #230

Good reply. Blue_true Mar 2018 #243

Bernie is giving all indications that he is running. Blue_true Mar 2018 #241

That's how I see it. Biden is respected by left & right. Disillusioned R's will vote for Biden. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #31

I hear you - but that's always the excuse used to keep white men in power EffieBlack Mar 2018 #41

Obama wasn't running against an incumbent leftstreet Mar 2018 #47

So only a white guy can beat an incumbent? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #54

No. Hillary definitely would have beaten McCain leftstreet Mar 2018 #56

It's not a matter of being the 'only' choice... Baconator Mar 2018 #263

this incumbent barbtries Mar 2018 #68

He was the worst candidate to ever run in my lifetime. Yet he still won. progressoid Mar 2018 #156

true, but not legitimately. barbtries Mar 2018 #198

Effie, the problem is, 1/3 of the country doesn't agree with us--yet. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #75

Geeezzuzz - This is a racist statement. Let the most qualified win! You really don't see your vkkv Mar 2018 #110

Representation is still so new that the system continues to reward people who have "paid their WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2018 #6

It smacks more of name recognition. We did nominate HRC last time and Barack Obama before her. FSogol Mar 2018 #7

Agreed. Dulcinea Mar 2018 #26

He has had presidential fever for years...if he is healthy, and there is support, he will run. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #29

i Get Your Point Me. Mar 2018 #8

I am ok with the club...as long as a Democrat wins. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #22

I Want DEms To Win Me. Mar 2018 #28

That will never happen...Dems start at different places...they just do. It can Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #39

THere Is AWay Me. Mar 2018 #81

It may change over time as people become more accustomed to female candidates and Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #103

Before I Make Any Voting Decisions Me. Mar 2018 #118

That would be wonderful and it could happen. I like all the Democratic Candidates Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #140

I agree, you make good points. dottie66 Mar 2018 #132

I am not happy about the situation but we must must win in 20. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #139

What is a level playing field? Blue_true Mar 2018 #244

I'm an Eric Holder fan, he has it all. n/t monmouth4 Mar 2018 #9

He is so smart...great guy. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #106

Is Holder even interested? FakeNoose Mar 2018 #116

Disagree Mojo2 Mar 2018 #10

I agree. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #20

I appreciate your response, but with all due respect EffieBlack Mar 2018 #23

Wow. You are accusing everyone who disagrees with you of not reading/understanding the OP. Not ok. FreepFryer Mar 2018 #30

No, I'm saying if you respond to my lengthy and thoughtful post within 10 minutes EffieBlack Mar 2018 #37

Lots of us think about similar things regularly or might have had this conversation before Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #60

yup (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #74

Omg lol Fullduplexxx Mar 2018 #32

A little thought exercise. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #215

Wow! Beautifully stated! EffieBlack Mar 2018 #222

Old white guy here Cartoonist Mar 2018 #12

I say none that you mentioned are electable in 20. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #18

Donald Trump wasn't electable in 2014; Barack Obama wasn't electable in 2006 EffieBlack Mar 2018 #33

I don't think Donald Trump was elected...election stolen...but he was an outsider...two of your Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #42

It is now becoming evident that Trump directly or indirectly had hidden help. Blue_true Mar 2018 #245

Middle-aged white guy here TommyCelt Mar 2018 #143

No way on Oprah Jake Stern Mar 2018 #219

Oprah only over Trump Cartoonist Mar 2018 #250

It smacks of predictability BeyondGeography Mar 2018 #13

I love Joe Biden and don't agree...I am a woman. If Joe Biden is shown to strong in the primaries, Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #14

I agree totally - operative word: "primaries" EffieBlack Mar 2018 #46

And I certainly hope DownriverDem Mar 2018 #155

You have now made multiple comments. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #51

I don't think Biden has the same "presumptive lock" on the nomination as Clinton had. JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2018 #15

He's the antithesis of dt, and perhaps babylonsister Mar 2018 #17

Biden's the anti-Trump, yes. AND, he has that "non-PC" off-the-cuff style that Trump voters love. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #43

"Authenticity" in my opinion is a BS attribute EffieBlack Mar 2018 #58

TRUTH, right here. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2018 #102

I would suggest that over his career, it HAS been used against him karynnj Mar 2018 #203

You make my point EffieBlack Mar 2018 #212

Hillary's accomplishments and her experiences were not seen as a problem karynnj Mar 2018 #217

If you believe that her experience was not an impediment for some, you just weren't paying attention EffieBlack Mar 2018 #223

Her experience or things she did or was to thought to have done? karynnj Mar 2018 #235

One thing that skews the discussion is just how damned good Pres Obama was The Mouth Mar 2018 #242

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2018 #101

So are the other Democratic possibilities EffieBlack Mar 2018 #48

I cant imagine a situation where I would vote for Biden in a primary. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #19

I'm thinking he could have won where Hillary didn't treestar Mar 2018 #21

Yeah! Who would imagine that a former incumbent VP would be considered a front-runner for President? brooklynite Mar 2018 #24

inorite? (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #35

Thank you! COLGATE4 Mar 2018 #36

LOL Scurrilous Mar 2018 #131

I wonder if anyone will call Biden shrill Codeine Mar 2018 #25

Or make a big deal of him taking a bathroom break pandr32 Mar 2018 #77

He DOES need to smile more EffieBlack Mar 2018 #147

His bronzer make-up is too heavy pandr32 Mar 2018 #202

I love Uncle Joe. BUT... JaneQPublic Mar 2018 #34

All your factors would be disastrous against any other Republican. Marcuse Mar 2018 #137

Perhaps white... but not male FBaggins Mar 2018 #38

And she and her supporters were attacked endlessly for her frontrunner status EffieBlack Mar 2018 #50

Yep... Likely for the same reason that you're attacking his reported frontrunner status FBaggins Mar 2018 #55

You're making some pretty obnoxious assumptions about me EffieBlack Mar 2018 #69

I'd say at this point that you're the only one really being obnoxious in this thread Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #72

+1. (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #78

My reply was carefully tailored to get this very response from you. FBaggins Mar 2018 #80

Whatever EffieBlack Mar 2018 #86

That was because her supporters acted like she was OWED the nomination and... MicaelS Mar 2018 #226

I take your point PoorMonger Mar 2018 #44

Joe Biden has a charisma PatSeg Mar 2018 #45

How much do you know about the others' "charisma" if they're not yet in the ring? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #52

It's not like they're unknowns, especially to people at DU that talk about them daily Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #63

Many presidential candidates PatSeg Mar 2018 #126

Exactly Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #129

Yes PatSeg Mar 2018 #160

Which is why I want a mixed field Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #162

That's a good point PatSeg Mar 2018 #185

Bill Clinton was seen as little more than a joke before well into the '92 race EffieBlack Mar 2018 #134

Like I basically said PatSeg Mar 2018 #166

So we just shouldn't run a minority or woman because some people are bigots? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #170

Of course not PatSeg Mar 2018 #189

I agree with that EffieBlack Mar 2018 #191

Knowing about a politician and knowing whether they have charisma on the presidential campaign trail EffieBlack Mar 2018 #159

I personally don't care as much about the charisma PatSeg Mar 2018 #122

Winning is all that matters. BlueTsunami2018 Mar 2018 #49

I agree - but we don't yet know who the best shot will be EffieBlack Mar 2018 #61

He was Vice President for eight years Dream Girl Mar 2018 #53

This shit wears me out. EricMaundry Mar 2018 #57

You're not the only one. Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #65

It wears me out, too EffieBlack Mar 2018 #76

Right. Joe Biden is a racist. EricMaundry Mar 2018 #258

We'll probably have 101 candidates running against Trump IronLionZion Mar 2018 #59

All of this angst is based on a poll that was predictable from the get go Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #67

Actually, I worry that it is too similar to how Clinton was treated. Chemisse Mar 2018 #62

i love Joe Biden barbtries Mar 2018 #64

I don't think we can really call this male (or white) entitlement jimlup Mar 2018 #66

I don't think it's frontrunner status by itself is evidence of the entitlement EffieBlack Mar 2018 #82

Perhaps but there is no need to take it out on Biden jimlup Mar 2018 #213

Oh, Good Lord. I'm not taking out anything on Biden. Nor have I suggested that he be "disqualified." EffieBlack Mar 2018 #220

Some will never even attempt to understand this. ismnotwasm Mar 2018 #70

I like Biden, but I ain't voting for him in a primary. nt LexVegas Mar 2018 #71

I thought Oprah was the front runner oberliner Mar 2018 #83

Am I awful Blue_playwright Mar 2018 #84

Get off of it. If I said that I hadn't even considered race than I'm a racist, right? If I said vkkv Mar 2018 #85

Oh, please - spare me the "You mentioned race. Stop calling me a RACIST!" response EffieBlack Mar 2018 #92

No response to the Harris Gillibrand poor judgement on Franken? Is that leadership points for them? vkkv Mar 2018 #95

If I only blame women for taking down an old white man, I'm a sexist right? LexVegas Mar 2018 #109

Exactly, that too.. Harris Gillibrand screwed Al Franken. That was not a good demostration of vkkv Mar 2018 #114

I haven't seen much of this talk. GeorgeGist Mar 2018 #87

Well thought out, EffieBlack Hekate Mar 2018 #88

Effie I agree with you on everything except your last paragraph. njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #89

I actually edited the OP earlier to take out that reference to "white" Democrats EffieBlack Mar 2018 #128

Thank you your explanation is appreciated njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #204

I would like to see Sharrod Brown and Barbara Lee on the ticket. Kurt V. Mar 2018 #90

Yes, he should be a real gentleman like Al Gore was in Y2K. lpbk2713 Mar 2018 #91

I'm really nervous Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2018 #94

Is it sexist to attack him because he is male? left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #96

And the only reason some are listing him as a frontrunner is because of a name recognition poll Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #99

It's reverse sexism and reverse racism.... LexVegas Mar 2018 #105

don't you mean old, white male privilege? WhiteTara Mar 2018 #98

No. elleng Mar 2018 #107

I like Joe Biden and would support his if he runs Gothmog Mar 2018 #108

What it smacks of is a complete unwillingness PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2018 #111

Its amazing all the politicians you call out askyagerz Mar 2018 #113

Do y'all realize how much the Joe Biden "frontrunner" talk smacks of white male entitlement? bucolic_frolic Mar 2018 #115

To create unity! Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #117

LOL! FreepFryer Mar 2018 #145

Discussion about white male entitlement on a Democratic discussion board sews discord? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #149

My God, must EVERYTHING be about privilege and how Hillary was treated? Still In Wisconsin Mar 2018 #119

You discuss what you want, I'll discuss what I want EffieBlack Mar 2018 #138

Yes. LWolf Mar 2018 #120

Oh dang... disillusioned73 Mar 2018 #179

Just a quick read of her Wikipedia page. MicaelS Mar 2018 #231

Listening to LWolf Mar 2018 #264

I don't think it is us get the red out Mar 2018 #121

I didn't say it was created here. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #153

Most people love Joe lillypaddle Mar 2018 #123

He was VP! He would have likely been the candidate had Hillary not run. themaguffin Mar 2018 #124

Theres a huge difference between frontrunner and presumptive nominee before the race even starts Kentonio Mar 2018 #130

This white male has been touting Kamala for quite awhile. The Mouth Mar 2018 #135

Sen Harris at the top of the ticket and Adm. William McRaven for VP would be a HUGE Exotica Mar 2018 #197

Oh hell yeah The Mouth Mar 2018 #236

When you see Joe Biden to you see a white man or do you see a man? ollie10 Mar 2018 #136

OK, I get it. You don't see race. But why do you see him as a man first and not just a person? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #142

Judging Biden in terms of his race or his sex is about as ridiculous as judging him by the color of ollie10 Mar 2018 #158

Please explain to me how I "judged Biden in terms of his race or sex?" EffieBlack Mar 2018 #161

Your topic was whether Biden is the beneficiary of white entitlement.... ollie10 Mar 2018 #169

Pointing out that he's the beneficiary of white male entitlement is not a judgment on him EffieBlack Mar 2018 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author ollie10 Mar 2018 #205

So you think he believes he is entitled because he is a white person? ollie10 Mar 2018 #206

You automatically assume he's the current frontrunner John Fante Mar 2018 #200

No - I'm pointing out that certain traits that are treated as excellent qualifications for him EffieBlack Mar 2018 #208

So in the past three presidential elections, we nominated a black twice and a woman once ollie10 Mar 2018 #218

Again you've missed the point altogether EffieBlack Mar 2018 #221

You are entitled to your opinion too ollie10 Mar 2018 #225

"play the race card " What does that mean? nt LexVegas Mar 2018 #144

Me Neither DownriverDem Mar 2018 #151

Do you realize DownriverDem Mar 2018 #141

I like him, too. This isn't a criticism of him at all. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #154

Midterms, people! Heartstrings Mar 2018 #146

Kick ck4829 Mar 2018 #150

Joe would make a great president as would several others who have passed my bar of decent, honest pe Sunlei Mar 2018 #152

My OP doesn't express my "view" of either of them EffieBlack Mar 2018 #163

They're different people, yet both honest and true Ds. Love to see them as Pres & VP :) Sunlei Mar 2018 #165

No to Deval... he wasnt even a good governor. Agschmid Mar 2018 #157

Unremarkable sums him up best Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #164

I love Joe, but I agree.... vi5 Mar 2018 #167

I like your approach to this. We definitely KPN Mar 2018 #168

I think most of the people who frequent this website are attuned to "privilege" ooky Mar 2018 #171

Judging by the reactions on this thread, they're not attuned to it at all EffieBlack Mar 2018 #190

Recognizing that privilege is a thing is a core value on the left ooky Mar 2018 #216

If you read the whole thread, you will see a breathtaking degree of ignorance about what EffieBlack Mar 2018 #224

Thumbs DOWN Ferrets are Cool Mar 2018 #172

You clearly seem to have a beef against VP Biden for whatever reason. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2018 #174

Joe' she Treatment of Anita Hill Precludes Any Nomination dlk Mar 2018 #175

Let's come together, welcome anyone who wants to run, see where each stands on issues democrank Mar 2018 #176

Baloney RhodeIslandOne Mar 2018 #177

Does this have anything to do with Joe saying that HE would have beaten Trump in 2016? progressoid Mar 2018 #178

Not necessarily a Biden guy here, but he was VP. That puts you near the front by default. nt Lucky Luciano Mar 2018 #180

Agree - but that's not the reason that's usually given EffieBlack Mar 2018 #187

This isn't Yahtzee. Let the voters decide. jalan48 Mar 2018 #181

Being called a front runner this early is usually a kiss of death grantcart Mar 2018 #184

He's a former Vice President to a very successful administration that is viewed very positively... Drunken Irishman Mar 2018 #186

You are right about a lot of things rock Mar 2018 #193

Well Biden is not at all on the top of my list, and you're right, the things that were a negative JCanete Mar 2018 #194

Was it white female entitlement when for over 3 years, Hillary Clinton was called the frontrunner? karynnj Mar 2018 #195

You have missed my point altogether EffieBlack Mar 2018 #199

No one missed your - it doesn't jibe with reality, that's all. John Fante Mar 2018 #209

You missed my points and I did not miss your point, I DISAGREE WITH IT. Not the same thing karynnj Mar 2018 #210

I hadn't heard that Biden was considered the front runner... HopeAgain Mar 2018 #211

Between Anita Hill and threatening to punch the president, I dont think so... bettyellen Mar 2018 #214

Who said he was the front runner? SharonClark Mar 2018 #227

He's certainly got the best resume. tazkcmo Mar 2018 #228

While I didn't give it any thought previously, I can see where Effie is comming from. Afromania Mar 2018 #229

Thank you for this awesome post EffieBlack Mar 2018 #233

K&R betsuni Mar 2018 #234

The only old white guy I would vote for is Bernie Sanders milestogo Mar 2018 #237

Why them and not Biden? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #238

I don't like Biden's gaffes. milestogo Mar 2018 #262

huh, and here i thought it was because... druidity33 Mar 2018 #240

He was a senator and V.P. phylny Mar 2018 #247

And Hillary was a Senator, Secretary of State and First Lady EffieBlack Mar 2018 #251

The OP is about frontrunner talk and Hillary was the ultimate frontrunner for the nomination BeyondGeography Mar 2018 #256

Im making perfect sense. You just seem to be having trouble understanding it. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #257

what we need is DonCoquixote Mar 2018 #252

I'm not ready to choose a candidate yet Progressive dog Mar 2018 #254

Aside from Obama, if we needed to fill the job tomorrow, Jarqui Mar 2018 #255

Experience and personality.. Baconator Mar 2018 #259

Depends on who's talking really, but ucrdem Mar 2018 #260

And Biden would be older than Reagan... Garrett78 Mar 2018 #261