General Discussion

karynnj

(61,013 posts)

210. You missed my points and I did not miss your point, I DISAGREE WITH IT. Not the same thing

Wed Mar 28, 2018, 02:21 PM

Mar 2018

Note that I said that Biden WILL suffer for being too establishment - just as HRC did, because of his own history. I completely disagree that Clinton was LESS establishment than Biden -- they both are extremely establishment. Clinton was at the top level of US Democratic politics since 1992. (In 2000, she might have been a new Senator, but politically, she was far more powerful than her seniority dictated.) I said he was too old and never argued that Clinton was too old.

My main point is that Biden is NOT being hailed by many Democrats as the Democratic savior. There is NOTHING like the 65 to 73% backing Clinton in 2012 - 2014 (go to bottom of link and read upward - http://pollingreport.com/wh16dem.htm ) Biden is absolutely nowhere near where she was 4 years ago.

As to it being white privilege, imagine the 2 term limit was repealed. I KNOW who would be the overwhelming favorite - Obama.

As other have said, the current "designation" is basically name recognition. Biden and Sanders are the only possibilities with real name recognition - other than Clinton, who has made it clear she is not running.

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Do y'all realize how much the Joe Biden "frontrunner" talk smacks of white male entitlement? [View all] EffieBlack Mar 2018 OP

Person of color here who loves Joe Biden. IluvPitties Mar 2018 #1

Person of European descent here thinking he's often out of touch. DemocracyMouse Mar 2018 #97

Just another person who thinks Joe's time has come and gone. There are better candidates we have to still_one Mar 2018 #127

Senior citizen here Taraman Mar 2018 #112

Yep. lillypaddle Mar 2018 #125

Agreed, time for the 70 somethings to step aside... Magoo48 Mar 2018 #173

I once spent an afternoon with Freeman Dyson... NNadir Mar 2018 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author David__77 Mar 2018 #2

I prefer Biden (the first VP to serve under the first Black president of the US) to the others. FreepFryer Mar 2018 #3

If you think this is a "racist frame" you must not have read my entire OP EffieBlack Mar 2018 #11

I didn't say it was - I'm saying my preference for Biden is not based in racial/gender bias... FreepFryer Mar 2018 #16

"you completely missed the point." NCTraveler Mar 2018 #40

Agreed - and many will get it, and reject it even while understanding white male privilege. (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #73

Yes, they will. Nt NCTraveler Mar 2018 #79

Or perhaps people don't take it seriously given the last frontrunner mythology Mar 2018 #248

Are you serious? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #249

So when you wrote this in your OP it had NOTHING to with race ?? see vkkv Mar 2018 #93

Um - talking about race is not a "racist frame" EffieBlack Mar 2018 #100

It is when you are telling that Joe Biden is the front runner b/c he is white. You called it vkkv Mar 2018 #104

Because white entitlement/privilege is not the same as racism. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #133

They are not the same, but white entlement / privilege is racist. see text vkkv Mar 2018 #188

I brought up white male privilege - why are you focusing only on the white part EffieBlack Mar 2018 #192

Most of what you say is correct, however, your OP did not mention ONE SINGLE quality of vkkv Mar 2018 #196

Effie, the reality is that Hillary was under a masked attack. Blue_true Mar 2018 #239

This post only makes sense if SomethingNew Mar 2018 #4

We really are look closely at the sexist side of things elehhhhna Mar 2018 #207

Or if you are drunk. Drahthaardogs Mar 2018 #246

You should drink more wine EffieBlack Mar 2018 #253

I think people are just trying to figure out how to beat Trump leftstreet Mar 2018 #5

No I like Joe and I got to say if Sen. Sanders runs, and I hope he doesn't, we need a strong Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #27

Ha. progressoid Mar 2018 #148

I actually don't have hard feeling for Sanders...but I notice you rush to his defense even when its Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #183

You know this is the internet right? progressoid Mar 2018 #201

My concern is the next presidential election. I believe him to be divisive and that could cause Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #230

Good reply. Blue_true Mar 2018 #243

Bernie is giving all indications that he is running. Blue_true Mar 2018 #241

That's how I see it. Biden is respected by left & right. Disillusioned R's will vote for Biden. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #31

I hear you - but that's always the excuse used to keep white men in power EffieBlack Mar 2018 #41

Obama wasn't running against an incumbent leftstreet Mar 2018 #47

So only a white guy can beat an incumbent? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #54

No. Hillary definitely would have beaten McCain leftstreet Mar 2018 #56

It's not a matter of being the 'only' choice... Baconator Mar 2018 #263

this incumbent barbtries Mar 2018 #68

He was the worst candidate to ever run in my lifetime. Yet he still won. progressoid Mar 2018 #156

true, but not legitimately. barbtries Mar 2018 #198

Effie, the problem is, 1/3 of the country doesn't agree with us--yet. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #75

Geeezzuzz - This is a racist statement. Let the most qualified win! You really don't see your vkkv Mar 2018 #110

Representation is still so new that the system continues to reward people who have "paid their WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2018 #6

It smacks more of name recognition. We did nominate HRC last time and Barack Obama before her. FSogol Mar 2018 #7

Agreed. Dulcinea Mar 2018 #26

He has had presidential fever for years...if he is healthy, and there is support, he will run. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #29

i Get Your Point Me. Mar 2018 #8

I am ok with the club...as long as a Democrat wins. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #22

I Want DEms To Win Me. Mar 2018 #28

That will never happen...Dems start at different places...they just do. It can Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #39

THere Is AWay Me. Mar 2018 #81

It may change over time as people become more accustomed to female candidates and Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #103

Before I Make Any Voting Decisions Me. Mar 2018 #118

That would be wonderful and it could happen. I like all the Democratic Candidates Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #140

I agree, you make good points. dottie66 Mar 2018 #132

I am not happy about the situation but we must must win in 20. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #139

What is a level playing field? Blue_true Mar 2018 #244

I'm an Eric Holder fan, he has it all. n/t monmouth4 Mar 2018 #9

He is so smart...great guy. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #106

Is Holder even interested? FakeNoose Mar 2018 #116

Disagree Mojo2 Mar 2018 #10

I agree. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #20

I appreciate your response, but with all due respect EffieBlack Mar 2018 #23

Wow. You are accusing everyone who disagrees with you of not reading/understanding the OP. Not ok. FreepFryer Mar 2018 #30

No, I'm saying if you respond to my lengthy and thoughtful post within 10 minutes EffieBlack Mar 2018 #37

Lots of us think about similar things regularly or might have had this conversation before Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #60

yup (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #74

Omg lol Fullduplexxx Mar 2018 #32

A little thought exercise. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #215

Wow! Beautifully stated! EffieBlack Mar 2018 #222

Old white guy here Cartoonist Mar 2018 #12

I say none that you mentioned are electable in 20. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #18

Donald Trump wasn't electable in 2014; Barack Obama wasn't electable in 2006 EffieBlack Mar 2018 #33

I don't think Donald Trump was elected...election stolen...but he was an outsider...two of your Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #42

It is now becoming evident that Trump directly or indirectly had hidden help. Blue_true Mar 2018 #245

Middle-aged white guy here TommyCelt Mar 2018 #143

No way on Oprah Jake Stern Mar 2018 #219

Oprah only over Trump Cartoonist Mar 2018 #250

It smacks of predictability BeyondGeography Mar 2018 #13

I love Joe Biden and don't agree...I am a woman. If Joe Biden is shown to strong in the primaries, Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #14

I agree totally - operative word: "primaries" EffieBlack Mar 2018 #46

And I certainly hope DownriverDem Mar 2018 #155

You have now made multiple comments. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #51

I don't think Biden has the same "presumptive lock" on the nomination as Clinton had. JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2018 #15

He's the antithesis of dt, and perhaps babylonsister Mar 2018 #17

Biden's the anti-Trump, yes. AND, he has that "non-PC" off-the-cuff style that Trump voters love. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #43

"Authenticity" in my opinion is a BS attribute EffieBlack Mar 2018 #58

TRUTH, right here. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2018 #102

I would suggest that over his career, it HAS been used against him karynnj Mar 2018 #203

You make my point EffieBlack Mar 2018 #212

Hillary's accomplishments and her experiences were not seen as a problem karynnj Mar 2018 #217

If you believe that her experience was not an impediment for some, you just weren't paying attention EffieBlack Mar 2018 #223

Her experience or things she did or was to thought to have done? karynnj Mar 2018 #235

One thing that skews the discussion is just how damned good Pres Obama was The Mouth Mar 2018 #242

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2018 #101

So are the other Democratic possibilities EffieBlack Mar 2018 #48

I cant imagine a situation where I would vote for Biden in a primary. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #19

I'm thinking he could have won where Hillary didn't treestar Mar 2018 #21

Yeah! Who would imagine that a former incumbent VP would be considered a front-runner for President? brooklynite Mar 2018 #24

inorite? (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #35

Thank you! COLGATE4 Mar 2018 #36

LOL Scurrilous Mar 2018 #131

I wonder if anyone will call Biden shrill Codeine Mar 2018 #25

Or make a big deal of him taking a bathroom break pandr32 Mar 2018 #77

He DOES need to smile more EffieBlack Mar 2018 #147

His bronzer make-up is too heavy pandr32 Mar 2018 #202

I love Uncle Joe. BUT... JaneQPublic Mar 2018 #34

All your factors would be disastrous against any other Republican. Marcuse Mar 2018 #137

Perhaps white... but not male FBaggins Mar 2018 #38

And she and her supporters were attacked endlessly for her frontrunner status EffieBlack Mar 2018 #50

Yep... Likely for the same reason that you're attacking his reported frontrunner status FBaggins Mar 2018 #55

You're making some pretty obnoxious assumptions about me EffieBlack Mar 2018 #69

I'd say at this point that you're the only one really being obnoxious in this thread Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #72

+1. (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #78

My reply was carefully tailored to get this very response from you. FBaggins Mar 2018 #80

Whatever EffieBlack Mar 2018 #86

That was because her supporters acted like she was OWED the nomination and... MicaelS Mar 2018 #226

I take your point PoorMonger Mar 2018 #44

Joe Biden has a charisma PatSeg Mar 2018 #45

How much do you know about the others' "charisma" if they're not yet in the ring? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #52

It's not like they're unknowns, especially to people at DU that talk about them daily Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #63

Many presidential candidates PatSeg Mar 2018 #126

Exactly Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #129

Yes PatSeg Mar 2018 #160

Which is why I want a mixed field Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #162

That's a good point PatSeg Mar 2018 #185

Bill Clinton was seen as little more than a joke before well into the '92 race EffieBlack Mar 2018 #134

Like I basically said PatSeg Mar 2018 #166

So we just shouldn't run a minority or woman because some people are bigots? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #170

Of course not PatSeg Mar 2018 #189

I agree with that EffieBlack Mar 2018 #191

Knowing about a politician and knowing whether they have charisma on the presidential campaign trail EffieBlack Mar 2018 #159

I personally don't care as much about the charisma PatSeg Mar 2018 #122

Winning is all that matters. BlueTsunami2018 Mar 2018 #49

I agree - but we don't yet know who the best shot will be EffieBlack Mar 2018 #61

He was Vice President for eight years Dream Girl Mar 2018 #53

This shit wears me out. EricMaundry Mar 2018 #57

You're not the only one. Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #65

It wears me out, too EffieBlack Mar 2018 #76

Right. Joe Biden is a racist. EricMaundry Mar 2018 #258

We'll probably have 101 candidates running against Trump IronLionZion Mar 2018 #59

All of this angst is based on a poll that was predictable from the get go Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #67

Actually, I worry that it is too similar to how Clinton was treated. Chemisse Mar 2018 #62

i love Joe Biden barbtries Mar 2018 #64

I don't think we can really call this male (or white) entitlement jimlup Mar 2018 #66

I don't think it's frontrunner status by itself is evidence of the entitlement EffieBlack Mar 2018 #82

Perhaps but there is no need to take it out on Biden jimlup Mar 2018 #213

Oh, Good Lord. I'm not taking out anything on Biden. Nor have I suggested that he be "disqualified." EffieBlack Mar 2018 #220

Some will never even attempt to understand this. ismnotwasm Mar 2018 #70

I like Biden, but I ain't voting for him in a primary. nt LexVegas Mar 2018 #71

I thought Oprah was the front runner oberliner Mar 2018 #83

Am I awful Blue_playwright Mar 2018 #84

Get off of it. If I said that I hadn't even considered race than I'm a racist, right? If I said vkkv Mar 2018 #85

Oh, please - spare me the "You mentioned race. Stop calling me a RACIST!" response EffieBlack Mar 2018 #92

No response to the Harris Gillibrand poor judgement on Franken? Is that leadership points for them? vkkv Mar 2018 #95

If I only blame women for taking down an old white man, I'm a sexist right? LexVegas Mar 2018 #109

Exactly, that too.. Harris Gillibrand screwed Al Franken. That was not a good demostration of vkkv Mar 2018 #114

I haven't seen much of this talk. GeorgeGist Mar 2018 #87

Well thought out, EffieBlack Hekate Mar 2018 #88

Effie I agree with you on everything except your last paragraph. njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #89

I actually edited the OP earlier to take out that reference to "white" Democrats EffieBlack Mar 2018 #128

Thank you your explanation is appreciated njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #204

I would like to see Sharrod Brown and Barbara Lee on the ticket. Kurt V. Mar 2018 #90

Yes, he should be a real gentleman like Al Gore was in Y2K. lpbk2713 Mar 2018 #91

I'm really nervous Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2018 #94

Is it sexist to attack him because he is male? left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #96

And the only reason some are listing him as a frontrunner is because of a name recognition poll Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #99

It's reverse sexism and reverse racism.... LexVegas Mar 2018 #105

don't you mean old, white male privilege? WhiteTara Mar 2018 #98

No. elleng Mar 2018 #107

I like Joe Biden and would support his if he runs Gothmog Mar 2018 #108

What it smacks of is a complete unwillingness PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2018 #111

Its amazing all the politicians you call out askyagerz Mar 2018 #113

Do y'all realize how much the Joe Biden "frontrunner" talk smacks of white male entitlement? bucolic_frolic Mar 2018 #115

To create unity! Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #117

LOL! FreepFryer Mar 2018 #145

Discussion about white male entitlement on a Democratic discussion board sews discord? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #149

My God, must EVERYTHING be about privilege and how Hillary was treated? Still In Wisconsin Mar 2018 #119

You discuss what you want, I'll discuss what I want EffieBlack Mar 2018 #138

Yes. LWolf Mar 2018 #120

Oh dang... disillusioned73 Mar 2018 #179

Just a quick read of her Wikipedia page. MicaelS Mar 2018 #231

Listening to LWolf Mar 2018 #264

I don't think it is us get the red out Mar 2018 #121

I didn't say it was created here. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #153

Most people love Joe lillypaddle Mar 2018 #123

He was VP! He would have likely been the candidate had Hillary not run. themaguffin Mar 2018 #124

Theres a huge difference between frontrunner and presumptive nominee before the race even starts Kentonio Mar 2018 #130

This white male has been touting Kamala for quite awhile. The Mouth Mar 2018 #135

Sen Harris at the top of the ticket and Adm. William McRaven for VP would be a HUGE Exotica Mar 2018 #197

Oh hell yeah The Mouth Mar 2018 #236

When you see Joe Biden to you see a white man or do you see a man? ollie10 Mar 2018 #136

OK, I get it. You don't see race. But why do you see him as a man first and not just a person? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #142

Judging Biden in terms of his race or his sex is about as ridiculous as judging him by the color of ollie10 Mar 2018 #158

Please explain to me how I "judged Biden in terms of his race or sex?" EffieBlack Mar 2018 #161

Your topic was whether Biden is the beneficiary of white entitlement.... ollie10 Mar 2018 #169

Pointing out that he's the beneficiary of white male entitlement is not a judgment on him EffieBlack Mar 2018 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author ollie10 Mar 2018 #205

So you think he believes he is entitled because he is a white person? ollie10 Mar 2018 #206

You automatically assume he's the current frontrunner John Fante Mar 2018 #200

No - I'm pointing out that certain traits that are treated as excellent qualifications for him EffieBlack Mar 2018 #208

So in the past three presidential elections, we nominated a black twice and a woman once ollie10 Mar 2018 #218

Again you've missed the point altogether EffieBlack Mar 2018 #221

You are entitled to your opinion too ollie10 Mar 2018 #225

"play the race card " What does that mean? nt LexVegas Mar 2018 #144

Me Neither DownriverDem Mar 2018 #151

Do you realize DownriverDem Mar 2018 #141

I like him, too. This isn't a criticism of him at all. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #154

Midterms, people! Heartstrings Mar 2018 #146

Kick ck4829 Mar 2018 #150

Joe would make a great president as would several others who have passed my bar of decent, honest pe Sunlei Mar 2018 #152

My OP doesn't express my "view" of either of them EffieBlack Mar 2018 #163

They're different people, yet both honest and true Ds. Love to see them as Pres & VP :) Sunlei Mar 2018 #165

No to Deval... he wasnt even a good governor. Agschmid Mar 2018 #157

Unremarkable sums him up best Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #164

I love Joe, but I agree.... vi5 Mar 2018 #167

I like your approach to this. We definitely KPN Mar 2018 #168

I think most of the people who frequent this website are attuned to "privilege" ooky Mar 2018 #171

Judging by the reactions on this thread, they're not attuned to it at all EffieBlack Mar 2018 #190

Recognizing that privilege is a thing is a core value on the left ooky Mar 2018 #216

If you read the whole thread, you will see a breathtaking degree of ignorance about what EffieBlack Mar 2018 #224

Thumbs DOWN Ferrets are Cool Mar 2018 #172

You clearly seem to have a beef against VP Biden for whatever reason. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2018 #174

Joe' she Treatment of Anita Hill Precludes Any Nomination dlk Mar 2018 #175

Let's come together, welcome anyone who wants to run, see where each stands on issues democrank Mar 2018 #176

Baloney RhodeIslandOne Mar 2018 #177

Does this have anything to do with Joe saying that HE would have beaten Trump in 2016? progressoid Mar 2018 #178

Not necessarily a Biden guy here, but he was VP. That puts you near the front by default. nt Lucky Luciano Mar 2018 #180

Agree - but that's not the reason that's usually given EffieBlack Mar 2018 #187

This isn't Yahtzee. Let the voters decide. jalan48 Mar 2018 #181

Being called a front runner this early is usually a kiss of death grantcart Mar 2018 #184

He's a former Vice President to a very successful administration that is viewed very positively... Drunken Irishman Mar 2018 #186

You are right about a lot of things rock Mar 2018 #193

Well Biden is not at all on the top of my list, and you're right, the things that were a negative JCanete Mar 2018 #194

Was it white female entitlement when for over 3 years, Hillary Clinton was called the frontrunner? karynnj Mar 2018 #195

You have missed my point altogether EffieBlack Mar 2018 #199

No one missed your - it doesn't jibe with reality, that's all. John Fante Mar 2018 #209

You missed my points and I did not miss your point, I DISAGREE WITH IT. Not the same thing karynnj Mar 2018 #210

I hadn't heard that Biden was considered the front runner... HopeAgain Mar 2018 #211

Between Anita Hill and threatening to punch the president, I dont think so... bettyellen Mar 2018 #214

Who said he was the front runner? SharonClark Mar 2018 #227

He's certainly got the best resume. tazkcmo Mar 2018 #228

While I didn't give it any thought previously, I can see where Effie is comming from. Afromania Mar 2018 #229

Thank you for this awesome post EffieBlack Mar 2018 #233

K&R betsuni Mar 2018 #234

The only old white guy I would vote for is Bernie Sanders milestogo Mar 2018 #237

Why them and not Biden? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #238

I don't like Biden's gaffes. milestogo Mar 2018 #262

huh, and here i thought it was because... druidity33 Mar 2018 #240

He was a senator and V.P. phylny Mar 2018 #247

And Hillary was a Senator, Secretary of State and First Lady EffieBlack Mar 2018 #251

The OP is about frontrunner talk and Hillary was the ultimate frontrunner for the nomination BeyondGeography Mar 2018 #256

Im making perfect sense. You just seem to be having trouble understanding it. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #257

what we need is DonCoquixote Mar 2018 #252

I'm not ready to choose a candidate yet Progressive dog Mar 2018 #254

Aside from Obama, if we needed to fill the job tomorrow, Jarqui Mar 2018 #255

Experience and personality.. Baconator Mar 2018 #259

Depends on who's talking really, but ucrdem Mar 2018 #260

And Biden would be older than Reagan... Garrett78 Mar 2018 #261