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Ms. Toad

(38,347 posts)
43. I don't believe he is suggesting the punishment should not apply
Fri Mar 30, 2018, 01:27 PM
Mar 2018

the point of all of the articles I read was the suggestion that he needed to apologize, which (to the extent it is part of the punishment) is a violation of his first amendment rights. The right to free speech also includes the right to be free from compelled speech.

I say that as someone who engaged in civil disobedience at his age. It was in connection with a requirement that - in addition to dissecting a "pickled" frog (which I did), each group of four students was requires to capture, pith, then dissect a live frog for the purpose of seeing its heart beat. I suggested numerous possibilities I was willing to participate in as a reasonable balance between animal cruelty and the wasteful destruction of life and any potential benefit I might gain as a 9th grade student (watching a video of the process, or watching the teacher (or another student) perform the exercise for the entire class (one frog, rather than 8).

I was prepared to (and did) accept the punishment (lowering my grade in the class a full letter grade - which the teacher threatened to call my bluff, then was forced to carry through with once she finally realized it was not a bluff. That punishment almost certainly kept me from being valedictorian - the top 4 students were hundredths of points apart at graduation.

But, had I been required to apologize to the teacher involved, I would have invoked my first amendment rights and there would almost certainly have been a court case.

(And, as an illustration of the value of disobeying the rules you believe are immoral (not stupid) and being willing to accept the consequences, that teacher spent more time thinking about whether the exercise is appropriate than she ever had previously - and has both thanked and apologized to me since then.)

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Unfeeling and unthinking principal Angry Dragon Mar 2018 #1
I can relate... safeinOhio Mar 2018 #2
my vice-principal (which I always thought a great title) and I... malthaussen Mar 2018 #30
The principal of the thing MurrayDelph Mar 2018 #39
This kind of thing is what makes civil disobedience work. Captain Stern Mar 2018 #3
+100 dembotoz Mar 2018 #4
He "won" ten times more because of the idiot principal. 3Hotdogs Mar 2018 #7
That doesn't mean when the kid realizes just how utterly stupid people can be mythology Mar 2018 #13
Suspending students for unauthorized absence from class exboyfil Mar 2018 #36
Forcing the students to apologize for something they believe in is stupid csziggy Mar 2018 #40
Not just stupid, Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #44
Yes, but it's stupid because if the student took it to court they would win csziggy Mar 2018 #46
Actually, they wouldn't, at least as to the detention. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #48
I was referring to the forced apology csziggy Mar 2018 #49
I think that's sloppy reporting. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #50
I don't believe he is suggesting the punishment should not apply Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #43
The principal and the board president both need to be replaced with human beings. Squinch Mar 2018 #5
Principals and Adminstration are the biggest waste of tax dollars bucolic_frolic Mar 2018 #6
I work with one who NJCher Mar 2018 #12
I disagree keepleft101 Mar 2018 #17
errm NJCher Mar 2018 #22
Property taxes keep increasing where I live because the state LeftInTX Mar 2018 #28
Having an expensive brand car is nothing sarah FAILIN Mar 2018 #35
well, I can see this is a hopeless cause NJCher Mar 2018 #41
Why do you think an educator shouldn't spend their money as they want to? sarah FAILIN Mar 2018 #47
this is my last post to you NJCher Mar 2018 #55
I think you have a problem understanding what you posted yourself sarah FAILIN Mar 2018 #57
NJCher keepleft101 Apr 2018 #58
I'm married to one LeftInTX Mar 2018 #24
doesn't address my point NJCher Mar 2018 #33
Please realize, everyone understands your point. GulfCoast66 Mar 2018 #51
and you were elected by whom? NJCher Mar 2018 #54
Bless you! sarah FAILIN Mar 2018 #37
I'll complain anytime I want to bucolic_frolic Mar 2018 #38
Now there is a real Democratic idea... GulfCoast66 Mar 2018 #52
Board President, David French, said he should apologize to the resource officer. 3Hotdogs Mar 2018 #8
Well he has to run for re-election FakeNoose Mar 2018 #10
French left Dayton True Blue American Mar 2018 #14
Parents need to back these kids 100 percent djacq Mar 2018 #9
people in Ohio can change school board members come election time beachbum bob Mar 2018 #11
Butler County was invaded by conservative thought about 50 years ago. sinkingfeeling Mar 2018 #15
The nerve of this kid. He should have apologized for getting shot. LuckyCharms Mar 2018 #16
At least for bleeding all over the floor Phoenix61 Mar 2018 #31
School admin must be big time gun humpers to want an apology to thier solution lunasun Mar 2018 #18
It that were my child Bettie Mar 2018 #19
Me too Oppaloopa Mar 2018 #32
Unfuckingbelievable. The school should apologize to those 42 students! SunSeeker Mar 2018 #20
We live in a nation of psychopaths. Initech Mar 2018 #21
Lol. Just seems like it. 300M people notice psychopaths. Hortensis Mar 2018 #23
This will go on his "permanent record". JohnnyRingo Mar 2018 #25
I'd love to have a gander at my "permanent record." malthaussen Mar 2018 #27
If indeed they existed. JohnnyRingo Mar 2018 #34
And yet he persisted? lagomorph777 Mar 2018 #26
I am from this county Proud liberal 80 Mar 2018 #29
If they can intimidate someone into apologizing ... lpbk2713 Mar 2018 #42
Sometimes you pay a price for doing the right thing in a screwed up world gratuitous Mar 2018 #45
The kid should drop out and home school. He already knows more than the admin. Hassler Mar 2018 #53
Fuck those fun humping Republican clowns blake2012 Mar 2018 #56
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