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EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
108. "They have a private property owner who wants people gone who are not going"
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 08:16 AM
Apr 2018

Wrong.

They had a manager of a business open to the general public who accused two men of being trespassers. Because the owner or manager has no legal right to eject a member of the public merely because they "want them gone," but can only have them removed if they engage in very specific wrongful acts defined by law, the police were first required to confirm that the two men did indeed engage in such acts before using their power to arrest them and deprive them of their liberty.

The cops did not do that. They merely took the word of the manager, who was either confused or lying, and even though the men were willing to leave, the police refused to let them go because, as they said "it's too late for that."

As a result, two men who'd been in the restaurant for two minutes before the police were called, weren't asked to leave before being confronted by 6 police officers, and weren't allowed to leave, were arrested for "defiant trespass," charged with "violent trespass," put in handcuffs and thrown in jail - all because a manager "wanted them gone."

That's not how the law works. And you shouldn't be defending it.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

We should not look at it as being humiliating treestar Apr 2018 #1
Unjustified arrests can be humiliating and are at the least a theft of your time. PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #4
Couldn't disagree more! busterbrown Apr 2018 #5
Then, how should we look at it? MineralMan Apr 2018 #30
I agree with you and the person directly above Dem2 Apr 2018 #45
A liberal is a conservative who has been arrested. A conserv is a liberal who has been mugged. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #38
The 'liberal is a conservative who...' is a great line. Stonepounder Apr 2018 #122
It sounds terribly humiliating to me PatSeg Apr 2018 #46
that makes it even MORE humiliating. along with righteous indignation blake2012 Apr 2018 #51
Their white friend went OFF. Can you imagine if either of these men had spoken to the cops like that EffieBlack Apr 2018 #58
Indeed blake2012 Apr 2018 #60
But arrests don't have to be carried out in handcuffs. Important people are frequently pnwmom Apr 2018 #69
You're the only one who has a point treestar Apr 2018 #77
The Police chief has announced new policies, but hasn't said what they were. pnwmom Apr 2018 #85
The Chief may not have known this (really?) but surely the cops on the beat knew it EffieBlack Apr 2018 #129
I agree. They should have used their discretion when they learned of the circumstances. pnwmom Apr 2018 #131
Seems incredibly insensitive to think being publicly handcuffed is not humiliating. Enoki33 Apr 2018 #124
Thats a little presumptuous, isnt it? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #74
I'm saying don't let yourself feel like a guilty person treestar Apr 2018 #78
The "stigma" is imposed by society BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #94
I cannot imagine. cwydro Apr 2018 #128
Of all the apologists and 'Blue line' remarks I've seen on this topic GoneOffShore Apr 2018 #79
Why? treestar Apr 2018 #83
I read the whole thing. You're making excuses for the cops. GoneOffShore Apr 2018 #84
This attitude is niave as the ideal gas law. GeorgeHayduke Apr 2018 #101
I agree arrest doesn't equal guilt but it is humiliating. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #103
Of course it's humiliating mcar Apr 2018 #104
Nice post, Chief Gates. Iggo Apr 2018 #110
I think the coming lawsuit will state otherwise. JohnnyRingo Apr 2018 #125
I get the point you are making whopis01 Apr 2018 #127
It's like saying that segregation isn't humiliating since it doesn't mean blacks are really inferior EffieBlack Apr 2018 #130
As a manager, did you ever ask anyone to leave your store? PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #2
Yea i did? busterbrown Apr 2018 #6
I was a store manager and had to ask people to leave more than once. But never for waiting for Neema Apr 2018 #43
"No, why don't you tell us?" PatSeg Apr 2018 #49
Oh the entitlement people love to lord over lowly retail workers and other service professionals. Neema Apr 2018 #96
I've worked in retails and restaurants PatSeg Apr 2018 #116
Did you tell him to Mendocino Apr 2018 #65
LOL! Apparently he beat me to it. Neema Apr 2018 #95
Did you ever ask them to leave... paleotn Apr 2018 #54
I never did. And I don't even think she can use fear, irrational or not, as an excuse. It was Neema Apr 2018 #97
In this case... the police had no choice. CherokeeDem Apr 2018 #3
The police certainly did have a choice EffieBlack Apr 2018 #8
Well Stated! busterbrown Apr 2018 #11
That police district has the highest "stop and frisk" rate against blacks in the entire city BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #13
+1. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #40
Thank you. As a former business owner in PA, you are correct. appleannie1943 Apr 2018 #44
Yes, well said PatSeg Apr 2018 #52
Not to mention embarrassing publicity, internal investigations and expensive settlements EffieBlack Apr 2018 #61
Exactly PatSeg Apr 2018 #72
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2018 #81
Except conditions of entry dont have to be written or posted Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #114
They don't HAVE to be written or posted, but they DO have to actually exist and EffieBlack Apr 2018 #117
Well, no Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #132
You simply don't know what you're talking about but are so certain in your ignorance EffieBlack Apr 2018 #134
Posted, not posted, it doesn't matter. The manager called the cops within minutes of these two men Neema Apr 2018 #120
Indeed Lucky Luciano Apr 2018 #126
They had a choice n/t malaise Apr 2018 #16
They had to come investigate gollygee Apr 2018 #20
They had many choices, including the poor one they made. MineralMan Apr 2018 #32
This is a perfect illustration of systemic or institutional racism at work EffieBlack Apr 2018 #53
None so blind as they who would not see The Polack MSgt Apr 2018 #62
Check out her post #8 above--it is just as good. nt tblue37 Apr 2018 #92
I love BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #111
Yes, it is. I'm saddened that so many don't seem MineralMan Apr 2018 #64
Why not blame the store manager? treestar Apr 2018 #88
Read my post again EffieBlack Apr 2018 #100
+ a brazillion! nt tblue37 Apr 2018 #90
Brilliantly explained, Cha Apr 2018 #107
Are they being disciplined? treestar Apr 2018 #86
"They have a private property owner who wants people gone who are not going" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #108
But why not simply escort them out of the store? Not cuffed. LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #66
I believe the cops asked them to leave and they refused. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2018 #68
But then their friend told the cops theyd all go somewhere else but the cops saiid it was too late EffieBlack Apr 2018 #75
This again? mcar Apr 2018 #105
From what I understand the manager was fired, and the CEO didn't waste anytime and met with the still_one Apr 2018 #7
First Reports were that she was ordered busterbrown Apr 2018 #9
The only thing I heard was that she left the company, and it was based on a "mutual decision" by the still_one Apr 2018 #17
According to other reports, that particular liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #39
Saying that is true mercuryblues Apr 2018 #67
I'd hire her for that. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2018 #89
The reports are contradictory BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #15
The only thing I heard was that she is no longer working their by mutual decision, whatever that still_one Apr 2018 #18
The latest was the Starbuck's spox saying the "mutual decision" thing was erroneous BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #33
appreciate the update still_one Apr 2018 #36
Sure BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #42
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2018 #10
We had a restaurant in the store.... busterbrown Apr 2018 #12
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2018 #14
They can't politely ask? gollygee Apr 2018 #21
The republican Chicago talking point ha? pwb Apr 2018 #22
You answered your own question and doubts. busterbrown Apr 2018 #23
And this Starbucks is located in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the city BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #29
What? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #24
Your Last Paragraph? busterbrown Apr 2018 #26
Wow. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #35
I'm so disappointed in some of the comments on this thread Tavarious Jackson Apr 2018 #19
just answered the 1 busterbrown Apr 2018 #25
Yes. If we expect the entire country to have.. Tavarious Jackson Apr 2018 #27
Yep. nt SunSeeker Apr 2018 #56
Cops are poorly trained. pwb Apr 2018 #31
Agree.. busterbrown Apr 2018 #34
You know what though? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #41
Compared to the rest of the industrialized world.... paleotn Apr 2018 #59
Sounds like a generalization. treestar Apr 2018 #91
I'm a democrat not a progressive. And we do realize what we see with our own eyes. pwb Apr 2018 #98
You would have fascinating stories to tell. I am all ears if you wanna Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #28
It's like that and worse for us but not just occasionally. Tavarious Jackson Apr 2018 #47
50% Delightful...50% Horrible n/t busterbrown Apr 2018 #37
The CEO claims ejbr Apr 2018 #48
Bulshit EffieBlack Apr 2018 #57
+1 n/t ejbr Apr 2018 #73
And this happened elmac Apr 2018 #50
And, well when I linked to that, I also found this HopeAgain Apr 2018 #63
They weren't just arrested. They were jailed for hours. They feared for their lives while in jail. SunSeeker Apr 2018 #55
Only after the store refused to press charges. They never should have waited so long pnwmom Apr 2018 #70
Yep. nt SunSeeker Apr 2018 #71
He DA said there wasnt enough evidence to charge them EffieBlack Apr 2018 #76
I heard somewhere that the "evidence" they needed was for someone to come pnwmom Apr 2018 #87
The cops showed no intelligence in how they handled this. S.E. TN Liberal Apr 2018 #80
+1, they had the opportunity to ask relevant questions and choose not to uponit7771 Apr 2018 #82
That's a bit much to give the cops treestar Apr 2018 #93
Yet you think the manager should have anyone they want arrested and jailed just because they say so? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #109
Here is the thing- they were not arrested just because yeh manager said so Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #115
Oh, please EffieBlack Apr 2018 #118
You need to read this BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #123
And this law certainly applies- but not how you think Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #133
In response BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #135
Here is info that relates to the city FAIR PRACTICES ORDINANCE BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #113
Thank for posting sarah FAILIN Apr 2018 #121
I am beyond appalled UpInArms Apr 2018 #99
I've lived in America for a decade. Will never accept the racism I see here. Will always stand up Doodley Apr 2018 #102
Manager identified by news media: dalton99a Apr 2018 #106
The cops showed at least as much racism as did the manager. Orsino Apr 2018 #112
Ding ding ding. What Orsino said ... EffieBlack Apr 2018 #119
Kick EffieBlack Apr 2018 #136
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