General Discussion

unblock

(56,274 posts)

24. That's really got her to say, and she never has called it harassment.

Thu May 10, 2018, 04:05 PM

May 2018

It's certainly a bad idea for a boss to engage in sexual activity with a workplace subordinate because the subordinate might not feel free to say no. So the boss really has to presume any such activity would be unethical no matter what the subordinate says at the time.

In this case, call it luck or a good read or whatever, but she never said it was under any pressure so it wasn't harassment.

Even so, it's still a bad idea because others in the workplace might then feel pressure to engage in similar activity to get any workplace rewards she might have gotten.

So I would still call it inappropriate even if it's not, strict speaking, sexual harassment.

Note that when I say "inappropriate", I mean enough so that it could still lead to creating a hostile work environment, so a company that allows such activity could easily be in legal hot soup even if the participants in the sexual activity say there was no harassment.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

132 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Was Monica Lewinsky a victim of sexual harassment or [View all] BigmanPigman May 2018 OP

Depends Xipe Totec May 2018 #1

She ADMITTED leftynyc May 2018 #84

That's actually a right-wing sliming allegation, Xipe. Hortensis May 2018 #130

Since she initiated it, she is not without fault in the matter. Bill was wrong too. bettyellen May 2018 #2

I agree JustAnotherGen May 2018 #11

So agree, Wellstone ruled May 2018 #19

Employer/Employee realtionship where the power is all on one side bottomofthehill May 2018 #48

She initiated it and wanted the relationship MaryMagdaline May 2018 #51

There were very heavy consequences for Bill too. bettyellen May 2018 #68

The balance of power was such that he COULDN'T walk away without consequences EffieBlack May 2018 #78

The fact that she admits threatening him.... is pretty damning. She knew she had her own cards and bettyellen May 2018 #116

It seems like she was disappointed she didn't break up their marriage... so she allowed her affair bettyellen May 2018 #23

I don't hold her responsible though - hear me out JustAnotherGen May 2018 #49

Bill was wrong, period. Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #53

I just wonder why JustAnotherGen May 2018 #54

Take all of Bill's faults, multiply them by ten million and he is still a FAR better person Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #55

She bragged to a friend before going to DC that she was going to earn her "presidential knepads." nt tblue37 May 2018 #44

See - wrong game JustAnotherGen May 2018 #50

Hey, another '73er here! True Dough May 2018 #59

Oh - you are a fellow Aquarian JustAnotherGen May 2018 #67

I take no offence to your position whatsoever True Dough May 2018 #75

5 yr olds know you are not supposed to show your... 3catwoman3 May 2018 #31

The bragging to friends doesn't persuade me that this was merely consensual. Orsino May 2018 #89

I dislike treating a 22 year old as a child. If he had made the first move I could see thinking she bettyellen May 2018 #92

Recognizing the unequal power the two wielded isn't treating either like a child. Orsino May 2018 #94

Harassment is pressure, and I'm afraid there was none. I've been harassed and it wasn't my decision bettyellen May 2018 #95

The affair wasn't a "mistake," if it was truly consensual. Orsino May 2018 #96

Well I think both regret their choices and would see it as a mistake. bettyellen May 2018 #97

We could convincingly both-sides the matter if they were just two people who didn't work together... Orsino May 2018 #98

It doesn't matter to you that she initiated it? I can't agree. I didn't see where he bettyellen May 2018 #99

It doesn't matter to me who initiated... Orsino May 2018 #101

In the context of workplace harassment it does matter who initiated it. She should have been fired bettyellen May 2018 #103

In the context of abuse/misuse of power, it matters who had power. Orsino May 2018 #118

I so agree with you. His position was an aphrodisiac to her femmedem May 2018 #127

Good post. Tipperary May 2018 #131

yep, in many workplaces, she would have been fired that day karynnj May 2018 #100

I agree completely. Clinton was a huge disappointment, but I can't see holding her up as a victim in bettyellen May 2018 #102

At worst, she is the victim of her own actions karynnj May 2018 #105

Agreed, I can't say she's to be counted among those who are truly harassed in the workplace- bettyellen May 2018 #108

Yes, she should have been fired for that behavior. R B Garr May 2018 #112

Thank you! As someone who was harassed at work and fired for refusing my smelly boss... bettyellen May 2018 #113

Yes it is awful behavior and it has so many ripple effects, like R B Garr May 2018 #114

Thanks- it totally sucked. A small company w no HR and an owner who does bettyellen May 2018 #115

That is beyond horrible. I'm sure you were working R B Garr May 2018 #117

Ugh, I had one interview where the guy was cagey, a no show first time. When I showed up the second bettyellen May 2018 #121

I think you need to be one of the participants to answer that. wasupaloopa May 2018 #3

All you have to do is read the transcript where it is said pnwmom May 2018 #65

Which is why they were both wrong Yupster May 2018 #125

It was highly inappropriate sexual conduct by the Big Dog. NCTraveler May 2018 #4

she apparently told a friend before her internship lapfog_1 May 2018 #5

They both broke the rules together lame54 May 2018 #9

But one of them had power over the other mythology May 2018 #14

At one point he did say no. kskiska May 2018 #21

There are those who would say that a 22year old woman is jrthin May 2018 #26

I don't think a power differential necessarily means someone is at fault. Squinch May 2018 #42

which doesn't make Bill Clinton any less guilty... and he should have known better. lapfog_1 May 2018 #15

Well ...... LenaBaby61 May 2018 #77

this has always been problematic to me because though it was consensual, there was power mismatch hlthe2b May 2018 #6

She flashed her thong underwear and bare hip at him, so she sexually signaled him. pnwmom May 2018 #64

A good question. If Clinton were a Republican we would have, and did, scream bloody murder elocs May 2018 #7

It wasn't sexual harassment because she made the first move JI7 May 2018 #12

That's just sad, and pathetic. The POTUS couldn't resist a young intern. elocs May 2018 #69

He is a cheater, adulterer for sure JI7 May 2018 #70

Neither Bill or Monica leftynyc May 2018 #85

No from Clinton JI7 May 2018 #8

The difficulty in answering that is why you don't sleep with those you manage mythology May 2018 #10

Life is complicated. IluvPitties May 2018 #36

Since Monica supposedly told friends before she went to Washington that she was going to Arkansas Granny May 2018 #13

Thank you!!!!! And an Amen. jrthin May 2018 #27

Yep. GoCubsGo May 2018 #128

I Agree that Workplace "Romances" are a Poor Idea-But Do You All Realize How Common it Is? Stallion May 2018 #16

They are super common. IluvPitties May 2018 #37

I agree they are a poor idea but only because they are complicated. There is nothing Squinch May 2018 #43

The more prominent the workplace, and the greater the difference in power... Orsino May 2018 #104

There was a disparity in power but it doesn't meet the legal definition of sexual harassment DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #17

This message was self-deleted by its author .99center May 2018 #18

What's all this about a "power mismatch?" Yes, I know... LAS14 May 2018 #20

Lewinsky explaining her various evolution on the matter, of which she still does not have an absolut LanternWaste May 2018 #22

Sorry, Monica. At 22 year old you are considered to be an adult. You play by adult rules and you Arkansas Granny May 2018 #29

Thank you. Lochloosa May 2018 #33

Exactly! IluvPitties May 2018 #38

Thank You-I wrote something like that but I was not sure if it would be taken well Stallion May 2018 #45

Yet we call 22 year olds "kids" when they can want to stay on their parent's insurance MichMan May 2018 #71

Well, I still call mine "kids" and they are in their 40's and 50's. Arkansas Granny May 2018 #73

that has to do with getting more health care coverage and the reality of things like affordability, JI7 May 2018 #81

The three ring circus that eventually formed around her had to have been unbearably difficult. Squinch May 2018 #47

She'd check his schedule kskiska May 2018 #58

Here's the part that's not complicated: she flashed her thong underwear and bare hip pnwmom May 2018 #63

That's really got her to say, and she never has called it harassment. unblock May 2018 #24

If we are to believe the story that she came hunting for an encounter Grammy23 May 2018 #25

No comment. I married my assistant and we've been married 35 years. 4139 May 2018 #28

I think I may have made your comment for you. See reply #20. nt LAS14 May 2018 #30

She was not in a position to decline consent. djg21 May 2018 #32

This attitude infantilizes people (usually women). nt LAS14 May 2018 #35

Her position infantilized her relative to his. Orsino May 2018 #90

Interesting perspective, bit I disagree. IluvPitties May 2018 #39

Sure doesn't sound like she wanted to decline. LisaL May 2018 #41

She was an intern, not an employee. As an intern she had a boss who was over the interns politicaljunkie41910 May 2018 #61

Clinton was her boss. djg21 May 2018 #76

Yes, she was. He didn't ask her to flash her thong at him --that was HER way of initiating this. pnwmom May 2018 #62

Your point is valid, but completely moot in this instance RhodeIslandOne May 2018 #74

Your statement is incorrect from the get go. He did not ask her, she approached and asked him. stevenleser May 2018 #107

Consensual. Two adults decided to have sex. Period. IluvPitties May 2018 #34

Bill Clinton was totally irresponsible but the afffair was consensual. comradebillyboy May 2018 #40

Monica went to the job hoping to have an affair. She initiated it. StevieM May 2018 #46

You know what? No,and that sleeping dog should be let alone. pandr32 May 2018 #52

No. nt frogmarch May 2018 #56

Why are we still re-hashing this shit? Blue_Tires May 2018 #57

"Don't get your sex where you get your checks." moriah May 2018 #60

I think the aftermath has many of the qualities of sexual harrassment. aikoaiko May 2018 #66

A therapist would lose a license even if the client initiated things. nolabear May 2018 #72

+1 demmiblue May 2018 #87

When you go into your boss' office and show him your drawers, you waive the sexual harassment claim EffieBlack May 2018 #79

Yep. Hekate May 2018 #110

She was a vulnerable needy person who went Raine May 2018 #80

Back in the 80s a classmate Bluesaph May 2018 #82

She had already had a long affair with a married man. betsuni May 2018 #83

Not only consentual dansolo May 2018 #86

Another good point. n/t Orsino May 2018 #91

Was it harassment? No, Probably not forthemiddle May 2018 #88

One needs to have mental guardrails Le Gaucher May 2018 #120

She says not ismnotwasm May 2018 #93

They both... Mike Nelson May 2018 #106

Ah, in Spring the perennials bloom. No, Monica and Bill were a match made in Fool's Paradise... Hekate May 2018 #109

I totally agree. nt LAS14 May 2018 #124

Consensual Miles Archer May 2018 #111

Well, she shown him her thong UpInArms May 2018 #119

I've worked at corporate law firms my entire life, and young women seeking out powerful men was ... Yavin4 May 2018 #122

Well stated. nt LAS14 May 2018 #123

God WHO CARES.....I haven't thought about Monica Lewinsky for 10 years!! onecent May 2018 #126

I thought she was a predator WhiteTara May 2018 #129

Older man, in a position of power.. disillusioned73 May 2018 #132