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In reply to the discussion: I'd like to give a round of applause to all the Jill Stein voters and JPR-atf*ckers out there [View all]Gothmog
(173,628 posts)382. Nader gave Bush the election
Nader gave the election to bush in 2000 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html
Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket," when Cook was writing about "The Next Nader Effect," in The New York Times on 9 March 2004. Cook said, "Mr. Nader, running as the Green Party nominee, cost Al Gore two states, Florida and New Hampshire, either of which would have given the vice president [Gore] a victory in 2000. In Florida, which George W. Bush carried by 537 votes, Mr. Nader received nearly 100,000 votes [nearly 200 times the size of Bush's Florida 'win']. In New Hampshire, which Mr. Bush won by 7,211 votes, Mr. Nader pulled in more than 22,000 [three times the size of Bush's 'win' in that state]." If either of those two states had gone instead to Gore, then Bush would have lost the 2000 election; we would never have had a U.S. President George W. Bush, and so Nader managed to turn not just one but two key toss-up states for candidate Bush, and to become the indispensable person making G.W. Bush the President of the United States -- even more indispensable, and more important to Bush's "electoral success," than were such huge Bush financial contributors as Enron Corporation's chief Ken Lay.
All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn't even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn't count in these calculations at all.) Nader's 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida "victory" for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, "Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?" (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, "We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore." David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, "Nader to Crash Dems Party?" and he wrote: "In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader's Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore's loss." Nationwide, Harvard's Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, "Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?" (also on the internet) presented "Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates," showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader's voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn't have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn't been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida's Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn't included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.
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I'd like to give a round of applause to all the Jill Stein voters and JPR-atf*ckers out there [View all]
Maven
May 2018
OP
Lena. The earth will turn blue again, humans just won't be around to see it.
Blue_true
May 2018
#148
I'm with you on that... whoever comes after certainly couldn't be any worse than what we have now.
InAbLuEsTaTe
May 2018
#351
Yep. Per snopes. Although they are not the only ones who pointed out
PoindexterOglethorpe
May 2018
#387
In Ohio last night, Kucinich lost badly ...he was our revolution's candidate...and he was
Demsrule86
May 2018
#195
Let me Rec this for you. Not much difference between Stein voters, JPRs and deplorables.
LonePirate
May 2018
#5
Ohhhhh...I didn't follow Sanders & his supporters closely. I think I've asked this before recenty,
Honeycombe8
May 2018
#86
Today, the US is planning to separate children and parents at the border. Because...
Hekate
May 2018
#6
The idea that there is some kind of moral long game is not sobering to me either
nolabels
May 2018
#269
Stein, Sarandon JPRatfuckers & those who chose Trump over the future of our once great free society.
Wwcd
May 2018
#8
Nothing hyperbole about my statement. You think this is a freakin mocking joke that we ended up
Wwcd
May 2018
#24
Yes, ignore those who give aid and comfort to rump which means aid and comfort to Putin.
Eliot Rosewater
May 2018
#105
That's it? That's the best defense of Jill Stein you can muster? Come on, try harder.
DanTex
May 2018
#132
LOL. Apparently you replied to the wrong thread then. Stick around, you'll get the hang of it!
DanTex
May 2018
#137
I just learned how to use ignore! I think I have the hang of things. Thank you so much for your time
ChubbyStar
May 2018
#138
It is truth...Jill Stein hopefully will end up in jail for her part with collusion.
Demsrule86
May 2018
#340
Not putting the blame on one group at all. But when those who contributed to this horror show, when
Wwcd
May 2018
#296
In an election decided by one vote, someone changing one vote can have an outsized effect
stevenleser
May 2018
#56
What's worse is that folks like the person I responded to didn't learn from that mistake
stevenleser
May 2018
#169
Good for you. There's a reason we didn't get their votes in 2016. Not to mention there's a
KPN
May 2018
#231
Nope, I didn't presume that at all. How one voted doesnt have any bearing on whether they learned a
stevenleser
May 2018
#278
In every swing state that Hillary lost by less than 1%, Jill Stein had 1% of the vote in those
still_one
May 2018
#209
It is true. Go to The NY Times and the election results and breakdown are all there. We could not
still_one
May 2018
#255
Do any of you Jill Stein fans ever try mounting an actual rational argument in her defense?
DanTex
May 2018
#133
Nope, they don't. All of their answers are logical fallacies or passive aggressive
stevenleser
May 2018
#168
I guess if I couldn't defend by beliefs with logic, I'd just post empty "mocking" as well.
DanTex
May 2018
#219
Donald the Dodo would have been more appropriate since she was trying to be alliterative.
greatauntoftriplets
May 2018
#40
It's EXACTLY what Susan Sarandon wanted. Just LOOK at how giddy and animated she is...
NurseJackie
May 2018
#17
Iran is apparently something the GOP has wanted their grimy hands on for a long time.
C Moon
May 2018
#244
Does someone not get the difference between the primary and general election?
bettyellen
May 2018
#22
It sure is, because juuuust enough Left voters were lured away from voting for the Democrat...
Hekate
May 2018
#28
Rejection? Is that what you call Perez kicking ALL progressives, those voting for ...
AtomicKitten
May 2018
#298
Nice distractions, but that is not what happened. This is part of the chaos --
R B Garr
May 2018
#301
There are only facts, not yours and then others', and that discrepancy is sad, not funny.
AtomicKitten
May 2018
#316
Excellent post. These two minutes hate type threads that seem to always come from the usual suspects
WIProgressive88
May 2018
#182
LOL. The irony of you complaining about people that "can't handle nuance" is delicious.
DanTex
May 2018
#144
No, nobody on DU thinks Sanders is an evil monster. JPR thinks HRC is an evil monster.
betsuni
May 2018
#212
Bingo! Wouldn't it make so much more sense if they'd just take this stuff directly to
KPN
May 2018
#239
What exactly bothers you about talking about elections on a political discussion site?
MrsCoffee
May 2018
#66
That's like complaining that people are talking about recipes on a cooking forum.
betsuni
May 2018
#200
And a special "fuck you" to the "Hillary would have been just as bad!" crowd
Blue_Tires
May 2018
#75
It's a website where many former DUers went during the height of the 2016 primary phase
Gore1FL
May 2018
#87
You just compared HRC to David Duke, George Wallace, Orval Faubus, and Lester Maddox.
Stinky The Clown
May 2018
#90
That statement was a bit strange, like that was all that happened and someone was put out. nt
Blue_true
May 2018
#155
There is no doubt that Europe is way ahead of the USA on everything that really matters.
Blue_true
May 2018
#275
I agree Sherman. I also believe this is an ingrained part of our programmed national psyche.
Uncle Joe
May 2018
#220
Keep the people fighting among themselves from an emotional, identity perspective
Uncle Joe
May 2018
#256
how exactly would the nose holders be at fault? You just want to lump everybody in? The point
JCanete
May 2018
#193
That's why this thread is important -- look at JPR and you will see plenty of
R B Garr
May 2018
#323
Or said " I will vote for her but I will HOLD MY NOSE and make sure EVERYBODY
Eliot Rosewater
May 2018
#251
Every nose holder or Stein voter convinced at least one person NOT to vote at all.
Eliot Rosewater
May 2018
#393
Exactly. So why post this stuff here? Why not take it where one does hear from them?
KPN
May 2018
#254
What I am PARTICULARLY sick to DEATH of hearing is how HOLDING YOUR NOSE
Eliot Rosewater
May 2018
#257
Me too re: that article/poll a few days back. OPs like this one serve no useful purpose here ...
KPN
May 2018
#260
Maven, I'd like to set politics aside for a moment, and tell you how much I love
Aristus
May 2018
#181
They don't own this, or they certainly own it less than our own corporate media, which is a poor
JCanete
May 2018
#191
They had an incredibly small impact compared to the total impact of the media. Incredibly small.
JCanete
May 2018
#294
It was a huge impact because it was just enough to give the election to Trump.
honest.abe
May 2018
#303
again, focusing on the 1 percentage point versus the 15 or 20 percentage points the
JCanete
May 2018
#308
no, you are focusing on the minor influence of Russia compared to the herculearn influence of
JCanete
May 2018
#328
So I agree with you, that was the goal of Russia, to sew discord. So what. How does that contradict
JCanete
May 2018
#355
No, it is an obvious trend in this nation with obvious results. That you choose not to see
JCanete
May 2018
#362
I haven't backpedaled on anything. Nor did I call Russias involvement a silly conspiracy theory.
JCanete
May 2018
#364
I threw none of it aside, but keep beating that dead horse. Its easier to win an argument against a
JCanete
May 2018
#369
Mueller didn't invent the facts he's presenting. Mueller didn't invent the Russian investigation.
R B Garr
May 2018
#370
okay...i don't know what it is you are saying I'm not accepting. I also don't know what you've shown
JCanete
May 2018
#371
there has been a corporate assault on our democracy for a long time. That's kind of why the
JCanete
May 2018
#373
the true oligarchs who actually own the media, or the shadow oligarchs who are still trying to
JCanete
May 2018
#375
Yet more diversions, I see. Your alternate realities are actually a huge tactic
R B Garr
May 2018
#377
why, I'm surprised you haven't already accused me of being one...now that's not a tactic at all...
JCanete
May 2018
#378
I think they are aware of what it ignores. It strikes me that it serves, for some, a purpose of
KPN
May 2018
#265
On Facebook they went after those who expressed doubts about Hillary and talked them
kimbutgar
May 2018
#252
Neither is embracing those who intentionally set out on a mission to undermine our US govt
Wwcd
May 2018
#322
Nope, that mindset could be supported after Nader, but not after it happened again and it is clear
stevenleser
May 2018
#280
I saved the world from Hillary and all I got was this lousy Rapture (and $1.50 a week)
SFnomad
May 2018
#281