General Discussion

angrychair

(12,296 posts)

92. Sorry, you're oversimplifying it

Fri May 25, 2018, 12:15 PM

May 2018

It’s just not that simple. You know, practically speaking, you do not have the ability to sit if you want, much less take a knee. No, there is no law but you are inviting public ridicule and even possible expulsion from the venue.

Over the years they have made it a social norm to stand and acknowledge the anthem. Now with trump’s comments and the new NFL rule, they have taken it several notches closer to fascism.

It’s not about who has a greater right to what. It’s about stopping our steady march to a fascist state. We cannot allow flags and songs or even military service to determine who is and who is not an American and how good of an American someone is or is not.

That is why it’s important to take a stand and why it’s a hill worth dying on.

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Anyone else OK with stopping all National Anthems at sporting events? [View all] USALiberal May 2018 OP

Yes, please. n/t leftstreet May 2018 #1

Yes, indeed. forgotmylogin May 2018 #236

i agree... why is it even part of the event? samnsara May 2018 #2

I went to a concert last week, no National Anthem there. So why sports? nt USALiberal May 2018 #5

Shhhhh. You'll give people ideas. n/t PoliticAverse May 2018 #204

I say we stop watching/attending all NFL football games & boycott these racist, bigotted a-holes!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #88

Nailed it...these NFL owners supported the Trump campaign. Why should we help them make money to be Demsrule86 May 2018 #108

Even more effective is stop buying football paraphernalia lunatica May 2018 #180

Great idea. Demsrule86 May 2018 #183

And $8 hot dogs and $12 beer. BobTheSubgenius May 2018 #224

YES! Roland99 May 2018 #3

The DOD paid NFL owners with taxpayer dollars to promote the military flag onit2day May 2018 #101

AND the NFL enjoys tax-exempt status. calimary May 2018 #199

It did change, see... PoliticAverse May 2018 #208

YES ALSO! :) Teams used to come out AFTER Hortensis May 2018 #205

Yes. greymattermom May 2018 #4

When do you stand? dawg May 2018 #40

Patriotism by rote is not true love of country kiri May 2018 #99

I have no problem standing for both - YMMV hardluck May 2018 #171

Done at the NASCAR races in Michigan too MichMan May 2018 #173

Just do what Churchill Downs does. greymattermom May 2018 #6

Nah but participation should be voluntary DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #7

Why do you think we need it? Concerts don't have them. nt USALiberal May 2018 #10

There are plenty of "hills" I'm prepared to die on. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #24

Ahhh.....OK, what ever that means. nt USALiberal May 2018 #34

As long as participation is voluntary on those playing and observing the Anthem is voluntary DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #37

You have to know it will never be voluntary. But carry on. nt USALiberal May 2018 #39

What happens to the right of the team that wants the Anthem performed at their events ? DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #43

If you NEED to hear an "anthem" at a sporting event to KNOW Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #59

If I don't want to stand for the Anthem I can sit or I can stay home. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #67

Sorry, you're oversimplifying it angrychair May 2018 #92

+1 Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #111

That was very very very well said. pangaia May 2018 #150

Spot on.... the march to Facism is the real fight. NoMoreRepugs May 2018 #262

In today's climate, participation is not really voluntary Ms. Toad May 2018 #156

I agree with you that bucking convention is extraordinarily difficult. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #194

It's not an issue that I feel drawn to spend time on. Ms. Toad May 2018 #200

Many other issues are worth a concerted fight. This is not among them. nature-lover May 2018 #44

Precisely. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #48

So the kneeling players are wrong to protest? Not worth the fight? nt USALiberal May 2018 #64

Yes, it is worth the fight! I was just explaining the previous post where the author said ... nature-lover May 2018 #162

OK, sorry! Thank you!! nt USALiberal May 2018 #166

No problem. I should have been more specific. Posts were not consecutive as I had hoped. nature-lover May 2018 #169

+100 Demsrule86 May 2018 #184

We don't 'need' sporting events, either. LanternWaste May 2018 #49

I'm in complete agreement SoCalNative May 2018 #87

"should be voluntary"? shanny May 2018 #76

Or an NBA player. Dr. Strange May 2018 #115

Wasn't aware of that--I think things have changed in the NBA though. shanny May 2018 #198

Me. CanonRay May 2018 #8

I agree!!! nt USALiberal May 2018 #12

It's almost - almost - as silly as a prayer braying over a loudspeaker Glorfindel May 2018 #9

Prayers over loud speakers? charliea May 2018 #91

Yes and stop playing God Bless America during 7th inning stretch Va Lefty May 2018 #11

+ 1000! nt USALiberal May 2018 #14

+1 treestar May 2018 #26

The Cubs still play MontanaMama May 2018 #213

I thought they played Take Me Out to the Ball Game PoindexterOglethorpe May 2018 #42

they used to shanny May 2018 #78

They did when Harry Caray was alive, anyway... PoliticAverse May 2018 #210

Didn't the switch to God Bless America TDale313 May 2018 #252

After 9/11, but now only played on Sundays DeminPennswoods May 2018 #256

100% ok with it. Greybnk48 May 2018 #13

Players should still feel free to protest, anthem or no oberliner May 2018 #15

The message IS getting lost. And that's the reason for the manufactured brouhaha. Aristus May 2018 #31

Agreed. TreasonousBastard May 2018 #16

Of course. There was never a good reason to do it in the first place. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #17

I say keep the national anthem before sporting events. dawg May 2018 #18

Why do you think we need it? Concerts, for example don't have them. nt USALiberal May 2018 #19

I don't like the idea of letting political considerations change our traditions. dawg May 2018 #36

Want a list of traditions we got rid of?? nt USALiberal May 2018 #118

It's not a tradition. eggplant May 2018 #134

Bullshit! dawg May 2018 #159

Let's put abolishing the anthem in the Dem platform SCantiGOP May 2018 #168

I remember as a kid mgardener May 2018 #190

What's a practical reason for keeping it? BannonsLiver May 2018 #186

Not letting Republicans take ownership of it. dawg May 2018 #189

That's an emotional argument, not a practical argument BannonsLiver May 2018 #191

Lots of people want to hear it. It makes them feel patriotic. dawg May 2018 #193

and god bless america too scarytomcat May 2018 #20

I agree!!! nt USALiberal May 2018 #21

Absolutely... it's embarrassing. defacto7 May 2018 #22

That's a start. Progressive dog May 2018 #23

I am fine with that treestar May 2018 #25

No more anthems at simulations of war please. DemocracyMouse May 2018 #27

I like this song better DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #57

Bruce singing Woody Guthrie! DemocracyMouse May 2018 #63

I already ignore it. If they stopped it and didn't tell me, I might not even notice. Iggo May 2018 #28

Yes. They are not political events. Shrike47 May 2018 #29

The attempt to associate (mostly) male athletics with patriotism.... Orsino May 2018 #30

I couldnt care less what the leagues decide in this area. NCTraveler May 2018 #32

As long as observance isn't compulsory DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #47

I couldn't care less about that either. NCTraveler May 2018 #50

As long as the kneeler has the same right as the stander I am content. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #52

"As long as the kneeler has the same right as the stander I am content." NCTraveler May 2018 #55

IMO the NFL has a right to play the Anthem and the players have a right to stand or kneel. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #60

I don't get where you are at. NCTraveler May 2018 #65

What if a player is a Jehovah's Witness ? DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #68

lol. NCTraveler May 2018 #70

For that matter, by law Mr.Bill May 2018 #93

Absolutely correct. NCTraveler May 2018 #96

I will be the bigger poster, take the high road, and not respond with an ad hominem of my own. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #94

Don't believe the video. NCTraveler May 2018 #100

If you believe that video is dispositive there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #109

No. The law requires companies to make "reasonable accommodations" for employee religious beliefs.. PoliticAverse May 2018 #211

Sounds like you might agree with the NFL penalty stance. Nice. nt USALiberal May 2018 #73

What part of the NFL has a right to play the Anthem and the players have a right to stand or kneel DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #119

Players kneeling is a form of free speech. avebury May 2018 #89

My position DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #130

I would hope that a good attorney would avebury May 2018 #138

It would be very hard to prove it was because of Trump MichMan May 2018 #172

Trump created a problem where no problem existed. DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #195

I am other than actual international events RhodeIslandOne May 2018 #33

That makes sense! nt USALiberal May 2018 #35

Yes, and also stop the demonstrations of our war machines and highlighting presence of politicians. NCjack May 2018 #38

Yes stop the anthem and 7th inning bull shit at baseball wasupaloopa May 2018 #41

I'm good with making it TOTALLY Voluntary. sellitman May 2018 #45

Aboslutely Hokie May 2018 #46

Yes, as well as those military jet flyovers. jalan48 May 2018 #51

Yes.....fine with me CatMor May 2018 #53

I mute them all anyway, so YES...however, it will NEVER happen. nt Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #54

I prefer they stay. I am PROUD to remove my hat and put my hand on my heart. Stinky The Clown May 2018 #56

I do it at games only because you are expected to. And no doubt would get scorned it I didn't. nt USALiberal May 2018 #61

I think playing it is stupid mythology May 2018 #58

I don't care. I am usually trying to pee or get a hotdog before the game starts. dameatball May 2018 #62

We do not need the national anthem at sporting events blueinredohio May 2018 #66

Raising Hand ProfessorGAC May 2018 #69

Are you suggesting it be prohibited? MichMan May 2018 #71

No, just asking how many here would be fine if it was stopped. nt USALiberal May 2018 #72

YES. And the military displays too. Like, yesterday. shanny May 2018 #74

Would people even notice it was gone? Nevernose May 2018 #75

The right wingers would FREAK OUT! nt USALiberal May 2018 #77

That would be my experiment Nevernose May 2018 #82

No we don't need it duforsure May 2018 #79

K & R & I believe you are in the majority on this. Wwcd May 2018 #80

I'm good with that Rorey May 2018 #81

As a long time drag racing fan 90-percent May 2018 #83

I don't care one way or the other DFW May 2018 #84

No, I am proud of this country despite the current problems Amishman May 2018 #85

I'm proud of this country too lunatica May 2018 #181

I'm fine with taking a knee, I don't mind the protests Amishman May 2018 #266

Yes SoCalNative May 2018 #86

We just need to wait a bit OnyxSharpie May 2018 #90

Absolutely! smirkymonkey May 2018 #95

YES happy feet May 2018 #97

This vet agrees... Wounded Bear May 2018 #98

I do not intend to sing or stand for the anthem or recite the Pledge TNNurse May 2018 #102

This vet agrees! SCVDem May 2018 #209

Yes BUT for now let's DEMAND the players have the right to take a knee or we wont Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #103

I agree! I also hope the players find another solution to kneeling, like turning back to field. USALiberal May 2018 #145

I've heard and read too many right wing 'patriots' JustAnotherGen May 2018 #104

YES Auggie May 2018 #105

I am fine with stopping the National Anthem at sporting events Gothmog May 2018 #106

What is the point? So we can help the GOP brand us as anti-American? Demsrule86 May 2018 #107

Your concern is noted. DinahMoeHum May 2018 #137

Thanks... I support kneeling but to suggest that we do away with what is a tradition can only hurts Demsrule86 May 2018 #157

That's better. Hey, if the teams decide NOT to show up. . . DinahMoeHum May 2018 #160

It works for me too...I have had reservations about football since I realized the owners are all Demsrule86 May 2018 #178

Exactly. dawg May 2018 #164

We are the patriots...let's not allow those traitors to define us. Demsrule86 May 2018 #177

+10000 BannonsLiver May 2018 #187

I'll see that and I'll raise you Blue_Tires May 2018 #110

Of course! relayerbob May 2018 #112

Requiring displays of patriotism demeans the nation. byronius May 2018 #113

Absolutely. sinkingfeeling May 2018 #114

Hell Yes! BlueIdaho May 2018 #116

Get Rid of "God Bless America," too. nt Gore1FL May 2018 #117

Irving Berlin would be appalled at what his song has been twisted into Wednesdays May 2018 #136

Superficial displays of patriotism are worse than no display at all Martin Eden May 2018 #120

I'm OK with that mehrrh May 2018 #121

Absolutely! rusty fender May 2018 #122

I never could understand why they do that. Obviously the networks don't put much importance... George II May 2018 #123

One of the defining characteristics of fascism PoindexterOglethorpe May 2018 #124

Yes. paleotn May 2018 #125

A OK. zentrum May 2018 #126

Go for it. Butterflylady May 2018 #127

But we need it as a breather to run to the john. mainer May 2018 #128

Lolllll griloco May 2018 #139

I see no reason to keep Bettie May 2018 #129

Yes including the Olympics gopiscrap May 2018 #131

PLEASE yes! NRaleighLiberal May 2018 #132

I agree completely, but good luck trying to get that bill passed Wednesdays May 2018 #133

It's an important symbol of US Sovereignty bucolic_frolic May 2018 #135

I do get the war thing. Problem now is endless wars also. nt USALiberal May 2018 #143

Yup. AllyCat May 2018 #140

I'm OK with it. DinahMoeHum May 2018 #141

Better whisper that...or tRump will be wanting his own damned anthem. KY_EnviroGuy May 2018 #217

Yes. Ms. Toad May 2018 #142

Yes! Please! eom LittleGirl May 2018 #144

Yep. We don't pledge before watching Deadpool 2 or Bruno Mars... Anon-C May 2018 #146

National Anthems eh? For the English it can be tricky. mwooldri May 2018 #147

I thought it was interesting that at the end of Harry & Meghan's wedding Raine May 2018 #253

Fine by me vercetti2021 May 2018 #148

It's all part of the show. These are commercial entertainment events. There's really no difference Cognitive_Resonance May 2018 #149

If I'm watching a baseball game, and most of the crowd isn't speaking Japanese or Spanish . . . hatrack May 2018 #151

I'm good with forgetting it altogether. Hulk May 2018 #152

Yes kimbutgar May 2018 #153

Yes! scarletlib May 2018 #154

I doubt you'd be in a minority on DU. malthaussen May 2018 #155

I Agree erpowers May 2018 #158

I'm fine with it stopping, fine with it continuing Devil Child May 2018 #161

Why can't people do what they want. kacekwl May 2018 #163

Trump wouldn't sing the anthem if it were stopped bucolic_frolic May 2018 #165

I have been seeing a lot more of this MuseRider May 2018 #167

Agreed. And to those who say its voluntary, its voluntary MarcA May 2018 #174

Good Idea! burrowowl May 2018 #170

It plays right into Rethug hands - and bigly! sandensea May 2018 #175

Yes yes yes!!!! redstatebluegirl May 2018 #176

If I'm at home watching a sports event on TV kskiska May 2018 #179

an aide to a rethug senator posted on facebook for he stood for the national while at home dembotoz May 2018 #188

Stop buying their products lunatica May 2018 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver May 2018 #185

Sporting events are trivial BannonsLiver May 2018 #192

I'm for nixing the anthem Pepsidog May 2018 #196

I'm ok with stopping it. I'm also ok with not stopping it. Captain Stern May 2018 #197

I thought about this...I don't think we should cede patriotism to the unpatriotic right, but it Demsrule86 May 2018 #203

Does not matter to me as I rarely attend sporting events Freethinker65 May 2018 #201

Why we ever started kills me? juxtaposed May 2018 #202

Definitely...never mix sports, politics and religion. BigmanPigman May 2018 #206

Yes. muntrv May 2018 #207

As long as we can still play Heard it through the grapevine. bluedigger May 2018 #212

I'm for stopping it. MontanaMama May 2018 #214

I agree with this worstexever May 2018 #215

I'd be fine with just playing the game Algernon Moncrieff May 2018 #216

I agree! I've been saying that for a while. LiberalFighter May 2018 #218

Should probably focus on one team for a boycott. LiberalFighter May 2018 #219

I'm all for this!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone May 2018 #220

We are in a minority, but I agree with you. Nitram May 2018 #221

I used to like it. I was in marching band, and we played it before games. LisaM May 2018 #222

What I believe ... I believe Peaceful Protester May 2018 #223

Priceless perspective! BarbD May 2018 #238

America The Beautiful. Video below alfredo May 2018 #225

or the George Carlin version... AdamGG May 2018 #234

Wonderful. alfredo May 2018 #246

YES. Susan Calvin May 2018 #226

Yeah. Dump it. Hayduke Bomgarte May 2018 #227

Agree to stopping. It represents rampant corporate hypocrisy. KY_EnviroGuy May 2018 #228

absolutely rurallib May 2018 #229

Oh yes WyLoochka May 2018 #230

I think that it should be done, but people should be free to observe or protest it. Blue_true May 2018 #231

Yes Meowmee May 2018 #232

I think the tradition started at the World Series during World War I AdamGG May 2018 #233

Yes. I never understood why it was sung there. I didn't mind it. But why? nt Honeycombe8 May 2018 #235

Anthem Versus Pledge Of Allegiance? Westcoast52 May 2018 #237

I'M LISTENING TO THE FUCKING SONG! Henry Krinkle May 2018 #239

Yes, better to play the home state anthem is there is one or the State song. Alethia Merritt May 2018 #240

Couldn't happen soon enough. cvoogt May 2018 #241

ive never cared for pro sports and many "amaetuer" sports period. AllaN01Bear May 2018 #242

More Than OK colsohlibgal May 2018 #243

Sporting Events are Sporting Events Wolf Frankula May 2018 #244

Yes and yes again JDC May 2018 #245

Definitely. nt greyl May 2018 #247

Works for me. SergeStorms May 2018 #248

The national anthem has zero to do with sports. MrModerate May 2018 #249

You know what the really ironic thing about all of this is? Initech May 2018 #250

We don't do it in church or at work, why at a game? RainCaster May 2018 #251

It'll speed up baseball, for sure. demosincebirth May 2018 #254

Right now, Trump is trying to make himself look like the "the American." C Moon May 2018 #255

Agree DeminPennswoods May 2018 #257

yes heaven05 May 2018 #258

Why not?? BlueJac May 2018 #259

Yes JPPaverage May 2018 #260

I'm in! pazzyanne May 2018 #261

Absofuckinglutely, when more than half the crowd is wearing their MAGA hats and talking .... marble falls May 2018 #263

Where's Woody Guthrie when you need him? RVN VET71 May 2018 #264

Well said. The anthem is cheapened by overuse. AdamGG May 2018 #267

K & R mountain grammy May 2018 #265