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In reply to the discussion: Bernie Sanders Is Losing Primary Battles, But Winning A War [View all]Gothmog
(144,921 posts)168. Sanders has not accomplished anything in the real world because magic does not work in the real worl
All of sanders proposals require a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions or may gillions of new voters show up and force the GOP to be reasonable and not block standers silly proposals. Magic does not work in the real world. Sanders proposals are not popular with voters who actually vote in the real world which is why the magical voter revolution failed. https://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11497822/sanders-political-revolution-vote
Among people who typically vote, these policies aren't that popular. The "political revolution" is only plausible if it's about changing the composition of the electorate: bringing new people to the polls who don't normally vote, even in presidential elections.
In the real world the conditions are simply not right for a voter revolution https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/04/heres-why-i-never-warmed-bernie-sanders/
But as Bill Scher points out, the revolution that Bernie called for didnt show up. In fact, its worse than that: we were never going to get a revolution, and Bernie knew it all along. Think about it: has there ever been an economic revolution in the United States? Stretching things a bit, I can think of two:
The first of these was 50+ years in the making and, in the end, required a bloody, four-year war to bring to a conclusion. The second happened only after an utter collapse of the economy, with banks closing, businesses failing, wages plummeting, and unemployment at 25 percent. Thats what it takes to bring about a revolution, or even something close to it.
Were light years away from that right now. Unemployment? Yes, 2 or 3 percent of the working-age population has dropped out of the labor force, but the headline unemployment rate is 5 percent. Wages? Theyve been stagnant since the turn of the century, but the average family still makes close to $70,000, more than nearly any other country in the world. Health care? Our system is a mess, but 90 percent of the country has insurance coverage. Dissatisfaction with the system? According to Gallup, even among those with incomes under $30,000, only 27 percent are dissatisfied with their personal lives.
Like it or not, you dont build a revolution on top of an economy like this. Period. If you want to get anything done, youre going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through the slow boring of hard wood.
The destruction of the Southern slave economy following the Civil War
The New Deal
The first of these was 50+ years in the making and, in the end, required a bloody, four-year war to bring to a conclusion. The second happened only after an utter collapse of the economy, with banks closing, businesses failing, wages plummeting, and unemployment at 25 percent. Thats what it takes to bring about a revolution, or even something close to it.
Were light years away from that right now. Unemployment? Yes, 2 or 3 percent of the working-age population has dropped out of the labor force, but the headline unemployment rate is 5 percent. Wages? Theyve been stagnant since the turn of the century, but the average family still makes close to $70,000, more than nearly any other country in the world. Health care? Our system is a mess, but 90 percent of the country has insurance coverage. Dissatisfaction with the system? According to Gallup, even among those with incomes under $30,000, only 27 percent are dissatisfied with their personal lives.
Like it or not, you dont build a revolution on top of an economy like this. Period. If you want to get anything done, youre going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through the slow boring of hard wood.
Without some external event as described above, there will be no voter revolution. Millions or billions or trillions of new voters are not going to rise up and help sanders pass these unrealistic proposals in the real world.
In my opinion, Sanders is not likely to run in 2020 and if Sanders does run, he will not be the nominee. Sanders will have to release his tax returns to get onto the ballot in a number of blue states due to proposed and pending ballot access laws. Sanders would also face backlash due to stunts like the attack on Congressman John Lewis at the National Convention (the video of this stunt and the fact that Sanders refused to stop this stunt will not play well with the base of the party). The Our Revolution idiots and Nina Turner are generating a great deal of anger on the part of real Democrats towards Sanders and his proposals. There are a large number of Democrats who blame sanders for Trump's victory. You can count me in that group who blame sanders for trump's victory. In addition, a large majority of Democrats live in the real world and will not accept sanders unrealistic proposals. I seriously doubt that sanders runs and I am sure that he will not get the nomination. Again, there will be no magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions of new voters rise up to support Sanders. Without a magical revolution in the real world, this proposal is not going to go anywhere
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Only 7 of 31 bernie's candidates were elected. 2 undecided then so it may be
Fullduplexxx
Jun 2018
#1
No we haven't universal coverage means everyone is covered...by some combination of insurance, state
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#10
Once again, that is not universal healthcare. Universal healthcare is a specific thing.
Squinch
Jun 2018
#48
Stop. What you are describing has nothing to do with universal healthcare, which has a
Squinch
Jun 2018
#76
It is not available. My cousin died from a boating accident just before the ACA was implemented.
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#118
I use the terms interchangeably because I have lived in countries that have one or the
Sophia4
Jun 2018
#83
Thanks for the elaboration! It sounds as if Germany could use Medicare for All.
Jim Lane
Jun 2018
#145
A Senator Sanders supporter trying to put the best face on what is happening. I am more and more
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#11
Again...we have no chance of getting Medicare for all soon or ever. It will take a super
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#78
There is not chance...but it is an election year. You won't get it until Trump is gone...and
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#111
As Sanders said to NPR, that's a stupid way to assess endorsements. He isn't endorsing them based on
JCanete
Jun 2018
#32
At least when you go and talk to them you can work with some facts, so I'd suggest that choice too.
JCanete
Jun 2018
#44
"...most populat politician in the US"? Among whom - 538 members of congress and thousands...
George II
Jun 2018
#178
Harris is far more important in the party compared to sanders and our revolution
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#34
If we need to leave the door open for Independents, why won't he cross that threshold himself?
MrsCoffee
Jun 2018
#21
I wonder how many people have read FDR's Second Bill of Rights as stated during his 1944
Uncle Joe
Jun 2018
#127
...money in politics maybe that tends to stand in the way of anything that helps the commons?
JCanete
Jun 2018
#30
no, you are right, winning is being equated to a very small and probably fleeting window of
JCanete
Jun 2018
#38
I've done this with you before. I've answered you from my perspective on that very question.
JCanete
Jun 2018
#45
Sanders has not accomplished anything in the real world because magic does not work in the real worl
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#168
it made you smile that according to this article, free college and masive public works isn't getting
JCanete
Jun 2018
#170
really really horrible way to frame free college and higher minimum wage and public works, all of
JCanete
Jun 2018
#207
you don't know me. I voted for Clinton and so did most Sanders supporters. I see a problem with
JCanete
Jun 2018
#211
Partly as a result of the divisions in the Democratic party at election time. Caused by those
Squinch
Jun 2018
#49
And turning people off from the Democrats was sooooo much more effective. We're right
Squinch
Jun 2018
#67
Want to address the one I made? You didn't like how things were going, so you blew it
Squinch
Jun 2018
#110
Then we disagree: imo EVERY election has too much at stake to take anything for granted.
shanny
Jun 2018
#130
Oh, FFS. Always dredging up the college protest 55 years ago and ignorning all that came since.
Squinch
Jun 2018
#157
Some of them thought that electing Trump would bring about "the revolution" sooner. Just ask Susan
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2018
#139
It would have been effective if folks supported the Democratic nominee and the gerrymander
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#84
My point is that Feingold was far from a 'centrist' and he lost too.This had nothing to do with
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#115
i will forever love bernie for remembering those of us forgotten by the aca..healthcare is a human
questionseverything
Jun 2018
#33
And what was the result? No health care for at least two years of any sort and maybe longer
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#86
Well now millions will lose healthcare and we lose the chance of a public option...thanks for
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#121
Sanders is going to have to file tax returns to get onto ballot in sevaral blue states
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#41
If this is so, than why are 32 states have GOP governors and legislature? We are
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#184
Oh, yeah, that well-known bias of the corporate media in favor of democratic socialism. (n/t)
Jim Lane
Jun 2018
#163
You're welcome. It's a toxic message that denigrates the Party and serves no good purpose.
NurseJackie
Jun 2018
#189
You write, "There are no two ways about it." Yup, that's the motto for all too many DUers.
Jim Lane
Jun 2018
#190
Anyone who denigrates the Democratic party is helping the GOP. There are no two ways about it!
NurseJackie
Jun 2018
#193
What's the point in pushing for something that doesn't have the votes to pass?
Blue_Tires
Jun 2018
#198
"obsessively focus on Bernie for the purpose of bashing him." --- Nobody is doing that.
NurseJackie
Jun 2018
#216