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In reply to the discussion: Sanders gets best reception at early 2020 audition [View all]ehrnst
(32,640 posts)214. And now we go on the defensive when we can't back up our claims...
Predictable.
Both Starr and Pollack, however, said it would be possible to make a switch, although it would have to be carried out over a very long period of time.
You could imagine some kind of long transition, where you gradually expanded Medicare, said Starr, for example moving it down to age 55 and then in later years continue to lower the age threshold.
You could imagine some kind of long transition, where you gradually expanded Medicare, said Starr, for example moving it down to age 55 and then in later years continue to lower the age threshold.
https://khn.org/news/democrats-unite-but-what-happened-to-medicare-for-all/
How long do you think that expanding medicare to 55 year olds, then extending CHIP upwards will take with the GOP on the attack. Canada took from 1947- 1962 (15 years) for all the provinces to go single payer independently before the a very liberal goverment was elected and put a federal layer on. Using that as a metric, in 2016 Coloradocare failed to pass, and Green Mountain Care, started in 2010, also failed to get off the ground. California can't figure out a way to do it quickly, because they are actually looking at what it would take.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Single-payer-will-take-years-to-implement-Gavin-12846093.php
We also have a larger population, and Canada didn't have a baked in private system to overhaul, so I added 5 years for that. And that's generous. It's an average of 19 years between successful health care reform efforts in the US. I have an understanding of health care policy, and you clearly don't. That's not huffy - that's just fact. And the fact that Sanders refuses to even discuss Green Mountain Care's demise, let alone talk about lessons learned doesn't say much for his understanding of the obstacles, or his willingness to admit that he might have something to learn. Either way, it doesn't add to his credibility on the topic that he brands as his.
So you still haven't been able to provide any evidence or names of lobbyists who "wrote the ACA." But Bernie claims to have helped, so again - write Bernie and ask him who was with him when he did this. You keep repeating Joe Lieberman, but no, he's not a lobbyist, and no, he didn't "write the ACA." We understand that you want to think that, but it's just not accurate, as your lack of ability to present any actual identities shows.
You then seem to be agreeing with me that a progressive pitching UHC in 2020 would split the vote. That was exactly my point. It was JMHO that Democrats should have a better policy to head off that likelihood rather than the milquetoast position they currently have in their platform.
And my point being that it's glorified snake oil at this point - but named after something that's not snake oil - excellent marketing, as I have posted before, and you continually ignore. Democrats who want to run in 2020 will get on the bandwagon right now, because so-called progressives have made it a litmus test, not because it's possible. Under informed people don't see it as that. An unfounded one, but a litmus test.
TYou're the one jumping down my throat and being all hyper-defensive about it.
Project much? You get annoyed that I ask you to back up your claims.... pot, meet kettle.
I think the very far-left progressive types are just as onboard as any Democrats regarding social justice issues.
Some have been pulled to the left of it by HRC, of course. No surprise. She got the votes in 2016. It's sort of in the Democratic platform. You should read it sometimes.
What you seem to be saying is they should be happy and content to just focus on that and not expect too much on healthcare.
Again with the strawmen. I think that people should be promised the sky by people who don't even know how to fly an airplane. You seem to think that unless they are promised the moon, they are being cheated.
https://www.urban.org/research/publication/sanders-single-payer-health-care-plan-effect-national-health-expenditures-and-federal-and-private-spending
Watch and see, the electorate by 2020 will be primed for such a pitch.
There are always people willing to fall for pie in the sky promises. Look at Trump supporters.
Getting all huffy about it -- will not make it go away.
Honey, you need to take a look in the mirror. Getting all defensive and huffy won't make those promises of Healthcare for everyone in one presidential term any more realistic. Milquetoast factual credibility and bad math will not health care reform make, no matter what kind of promises longtime politicians make that will prolong the cheering crowds at the end of a career. That's some tough juju to give up.
Whatevah.
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Actually I think the reception was because he brought a box o' joe and two dozen munchkins.
George II
Jun 2018
#103
Me too! Not bad for someone who's not a Democrat... Bernie never fails to deliver the goods!
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#16
Yes, being the most popular prospective 2020 presidentilal candidate is SOOO overrated!!
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#17
"Perhaps the most vigorous applause in the room was for the outgoing congressman Luis Gutirrez..."
oberliner
Jun 2018
#10
Which is why delegates and not actual vote counts are always mentioned by Sanders
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#96
There seem to be people who honestly think the 2016 race was close. Either that or...
Garrett78
Jun 2018
#108
Write in Hillary? What happened to unity behind the duly elected Democratic presidential nominee?
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#27
So what will the Democratic Party do if Bernie becomes that popular with Dem voters?
YOHABLO
Jun 2018
#24
We will all unite in rallying behind Bernie in 2020, just as we did in supporting Hillary in 2016...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#29
Some 2,000 internal DNC emails were released the day before the convention
AtomicKitten
Jun 2018
#245
Thing is, it will never happen. He is not going to get away wuth not showing his full tax returns
lunamagica
Jun 2018
#102
"since when is it appropriate it to hold the sins of the spouse against the candidate?!"
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#117
If you have ZERO doubt he will disclose his tax retrurns, why hasn't he done it already?
lunamagica
Jun 2018
#119
IKR? releasing full tax returns goes a long way to show a candidates honesty and transparency
lunamagica
Jun 2018
#123
Bernie has shown AMAZING transparency when it comes to what he has had to say to Wall Street bankers
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#125
Transparency? The real transparecy would have been to show his tax retuns, not his empty words
lunamagica
Jun 2018
#189
As I've said, repeatedIy, I don't know 4 sure why Bernie didn't release his tax returns.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#238
Thanks for you reply. If your guess is correct, why did he say that Jane was looking for them?
lunamagica
Jun 2018
#242
Bernie himself seemed to have had sketchy goings ons that no release of tax returns
Blue_true
Jun 2018
#169
No question Bernie SHOULD, and WILL, join the ranks of the Democratic Party IF he runs again...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#128
It is too late. He isn't going to become popular with Democrats. he had a shot last time
Demsrule86
Jun 2018
#66
I'll vote for ANY Democrat, but I like how Bernie, Harris, Booker and Warren are waking the nation
DemocracyMouse
Jun 2018
#32
It tells me that he lacks commitment. I just don't see this as a "winning" message.
NurseJackie
Jun 2018
#182
Not sure about his "loyalists," as you call 'em, but Bernie speaks the truth...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#227
She'll have to defend her support of ICE which was part of the Patriot Act
AtomicKitten
Jun 2018
#247
My point being that anecdotal observations are not a good criteria to judge things,
still_one
Jun 2018
#49
Bullshit. The same lies and distortions were spewed how there was no difference between republicans
still_one
Jun 2018
#81
Yes I am. Working and pushing ideas within the Democratic party is important. That appears to be
still_one
Jun 2018
#86
He entered the venue as an angel, borne aloft by the wings of ten thousand butterflies.
VOX
Jun 2018
#53
The devotees were smitten and behold a tax return descended to the masses . . .
grantcart
Jun 2018
#90
No. And we wouldn't boo him at the convention, either. Because that would just be fucking stupid.
Squinch
Jun 2018
#107
I would really like to see a younger candidate. It seems like the old guard will be running from the
Vinca
Jun 2018
#57
You know this party is in fucking trouble when it wants to run an 80-year-old man for president.
BlueStater
Jun 2018
#61
The ACA is the step towards it - NO universal health care will be acheived in under 20 years.
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#154
And yeah, they started a long time ago, and didn't retrofit a baked-in system of insurance.
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#216
Actually, it was a very long time ago, before health insurance was baked in to the economy
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#221
A "hard-left progressive" has no chance of winning. What is your definition of...
George II
Jun 2018
#199
"we're working towards it! (nevermind we take money from big pharma/insurance too)"
George II
Jun 2018
#222
Actually, it is the closest we have ever come, and it was and is intended to expand to
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#144
Voting is where it counts. Who gives a shit who a horde of elitists cheer? nt
Blue_true
Jun 2018
#159
Twitler stole all of Bernie's talking points and Bernie never spoke out against him
kimbutgar
Jun 2018
#212