General Discussion

BeaufortPenguin

(60 posts)

37. I Beg To Differ

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 11:51 PM

Jan 2012

Hillary was a respected US Senator with strong opinions and principals. Obama was neither. If you are trying to convince me that trying to reach a compromise by giving away your core principals and then meeting the other side one third of the way off of their starting point is leadership, then I have some oceanfront property in Iowa that I would like to sell you. The appeasement started by not prosecuting the prior administration for war crimes, and has gone down hill from there. Obama won with a mandate, and he has completely wasted it. Healthcare reform (if you call what we got passed reform) is the prime example. Unfortunately, I will probably not live long enough to see another opportunity like he had in 2009 again in my lifetime.

Sure, it could have been worse, but only if another Puke had been elected. Obama has been a very weak president at best......and I am an ultra-progressive, so that is putting it mildly. Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders seem to be the only 2 real democrats that can be counted on these days........and Grayson is out of Congress.

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All you folks so unhappy with President Obama, let me ask you a question... [View all] Bob Wallace Jan 2012 OP

Please edit the OP to include Ron Paul BootinUp Jan 2012 #1

Why should the OP include Ron Paul? csziggy Jan 2012 #6

I thought it was a humorous suggestion BootinUp Jan 2012 #10

If you look at Paul's record... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #14

I try not to look at it too much BootinUp Jan 2012 #17

Decided to check my facts... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #32

Ronpaul Stiltskin is a crank. But, he is the fracking fluid, that the Libertarians will use, to own WingDinger Jan 2012 #88

If asked, I'm sure Ron would be proud that he's done jacksquat in Congress. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #101

It didn't come across that way - I guess I needed a sarcasm tag or something csziggy Jan 2012 #47

. BootinUp Jan 2012 #51

Thanks csziggy Jan 2012 #66

FWIW, I laughed. Zalatix Jan 2012 #111

Because Ron Paul is an asshole - like Nader jpak Jan 2012 #144

It's a hypothetical that cannot be answered... kentuck Jan 2012 #2

I Beg To Differ BeaufortPenguin Jan 2012 #37

+1 emilyg Jan 2012 #67

BZZZT Try again. If Obama was just as respected, why did he get more endorsements Kahuna Jan 2012 #84

Yeah, right. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #102

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. Ineeda Jan 2012 #116

Can't criticize? Can't be unhappy? gristy Jan 2012 #3

on the contrary, it's entirely relevant. johnaries Jan 2012 #7

If you're never happy with Obama, that tends to suggest treestar Jan 2012 #33

Really? gristy Jan 2012 #59

You said "can't criticize? Can't be unhappy?" treestar Jan 2012 #65

All WHAT folks so unhappy with the Prez? ClassWarrior Jan 2012 #4

Actually, the criticism I've seen is far from "constructive". johnaries Jan 2012 #13

+1 treestar Jan 2012 #35

It's destructive criticism Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #105

+1 DCBob Jan 2012 #170

That's what's called willful ignorance. ClassWarrior Jan 2012 #125

The willful ignorance was the 2010 election. Kurmudgeon Jan 2012 #134

The Dems turned out to vote. The wishy-washy "centrists" are the ones who stayed home. ClassWarrior Jan 2012 #135

I was thinking the same thing recently. femmocrat Jan 2012 #5

Since you asked, yes, I absolutely think Hillary would have been more effective. Far more effective. Skip Intro Jan 2012 #8

You mean Corporate Whore Hillary? johnaries Jan 2012 #19

Obviously, I don't share your opinion. nt Skip Intro Jan 2012 #40

Geithner, Summers, Rubin, Bernanke, Emanuel. NCTraveler Jan 2012 #138

+1 lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #155

"corporate whore hillary" paulk Jan 2012 #145

You think either Hillary or Obama would have been able to control the "repub attack machine?" treestar Jan 2012 #36

Didn't say that. She surely would have countered it, though, sooner and more forcefully than Obama Skip Intro Jan 2012 #44

On what date would she have "countered it" treestar Jan 2012 #48

wow Skip Intro Jan 2012 #56

You claimed Hillary would have "countered" the Republicans earlier treestar Jan 2012 #70

Remember "Hillarycare"? Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #106

Revisionism. You claim Hilalry would have never let the Kahuna Jan 2012 #87

hmmm... I was just thinkng this LadyInAZ Jan 2012 #89

Fully agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #153

So you want a answer do ya? RegieRocker Jan 2012 #9

Kathy Bates DJ13 Jan 2012 #12

Obama started in the middle onb too many issues. And worried more about..... Logical Jan 2012 #11

I think he started out more to the right. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #20

I was being nice! :-) Logical Jan 2012 #22

Those are perfectly valid behaviors for someone who is cooperative. joshcryer Jan 2012 #41

I think its the opposite mr_liberal Jan 2012 #24

The Health Care bill was far left?? LOL.....ever heard of single payer? That is far left..... Logical Jan 2012 #26

Left wing economists wanted more stimulus mr_liberal Jan 2012 #29

"ever heard of single payer? That is far left....." Charlemagne Jan 2012 #52

Single Payer is NOT "Far Left". bvar22 Jan 2012 #133

Among primary candidates, his healthcare proposal was the least progressive. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #152

A more moderate candidate mr_liberal Jan 2012 #15

Other than standing on his head and saying "Simon says" what more could he possibly Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #92

Nice try. Obama TOOK the bipartisan, moderate tack. Half his proposals used to be GOP "alternatives" Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #107

Hillary BeaufortPenguin Jan 2012 #16

What do you think Hillary would have done differently? octothorpe Jan 2012 #46

She would have stated what she wanted from a healthcare plan and pushed it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #149

Now, come on folks... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #18

And who cares? RetroLounge Jan 2012 #25

But then what else will they post? Number23 Jan 2012 #57

There is a world, a parallel earth, where all those people BECAME president nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #21

"Is there anyone who could have done a better job" RetroLounge Jan 2012 #23

????? that was the LAST square? Skittles Jan 2012 #60

Yup RetroLounge Jan 2012 #63

one of them told me the other day Skittles Jan 2012 #71

Good God - how lame can emilyg Jan 2012 #76

Howard Dean. krispos42 Jan 2012 #27

+1,000 (nt) Autumn Colors Jan 2012 #31

just one of MANY Skittles Jan 2012 #61

Dunno about "many", but it's definitely more than just one or two. krispos42 Jan 2012 #74

+1000 RetroLounge Jan 2012 #64

Right there Autumn Jan 2012 #118

Yep. n/t SmellyFeet Jan 2012 #162

"Is there anyone who could have done a better job..." unkachuck Jan 2012 #28

FWIW you might look at the make up of Congress under FDR. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2012 #34

Big difference between the two. FDR, for example, didn't choose a Geithner-type appointee. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #53

Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Treasury Secretary Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #108

Dern. n/t Bolo Boffin Jan 2012 #115

"Morgenthau used his position as Treasury chief to investigate organized crime and government corrup AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #139

That's not what I was responding to. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #147

(1) I was around in 1945. (2) FDR was the best and I never would have trashed anything that he did. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #159

Sure, Democratic Party and Media support notwithstanding. (nt) (nr) T S Justly Jan 2012 #30

You're not going to like this whatchamacallit Jan 2012 #38

mediocre candy bar Charlemagne Jan 2012 #54

...and would not be allowed to be elected or even allowed to play in the reindeer games. RUMMYisFROSTED Jan 2012 #127

nope, Obama has done exactly what they paid him to do FirstLight Jan 2012 #39

Best answer on the board. russspeakeasy Jan 2012 #42

o no u din't getdown Jan 2012 #43

two sides of the same corporate coin RetroLounge Jan 2012 #68

Paid to "keep the liberals quiet"? Some complain that he's not doing that job well enough. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #160

How is any of that relevant? I mean seriously, even if Barack Obama was the best President Puregonzo1188 Jan 2012 #45

I don't think we are talking of things that are quite the same treestar Jan 2012 #50

No one said 'shut up and accept slavery'? I don't think the slaves would agree with that. Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #124

Just another one of those "best we could do" posts. I voted for Hillary. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #49

That we can never know is precisely what an Existential Dilemma is. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #55

True... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #58

Dean is not only smart, but he would have been a liberal. Sigh. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #62

Oh, I forgot... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #69

He is not a liberal nor a progressive, no. Bonobo Jan 2012 #72

Ah hah! Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #78

The President is an opponent of equal rights for some minorities due to his religion Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #123

Shame DU was for Kerry. joshcryer Jan 2012 #73

I was not. But I wish I had supported Dean. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #75

You were right in this post: joshcryer Jan 2012 #80

WTF was I thinking with Clark... But actually, I think I know. Bonobo Jan 2012 #85

I don't think that's fair. He did exactly what he said he'd do, and that makes him a chameleon? joshcryer Jan 2012 #90

Could be you are right. Could be my powers of self-delusion were bigger Bonobo Jan 2012 #95

That hurts me though, this is DU, we aren't suposed to be "kool-aid" drinkers. joshcryer Jan 2012 #98

A man dying of thirst will happily drink kool-aid. Bonobo Jan 2012 #100

Oh, I do think it was very calculating. I think it was brilliant. It was the greatest... joshcryer Jan 2012 #103

I have come to understand you much better through this exchange. Bonobo Jan 2012 #104

what are you talking about? paulk Jan 2012 #146

There was a very loud "Kerry is the only one electable" contingent on this board. joshcryer Jan 2012 #168

someone who had more experience working with Congress paulk Jan 2012 #77

Who, on the Democratic side of the aisle... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #81

should I take you seriously? paulk Jan 2012 #83

How many days... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #86

"anyone left of Obama" paulk Jan 2012 #91

That's not asking, that's lecturing. LeftyMom Jan 2012 #79

I'm impatient... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #82

Inpatience and rudeness are not the same thing, althoug I think the OFA teaches that Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #122

This is dumb MFrohike Jan 2012 #93

Absolutely right. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #140

I think the OP is missing the point. Xicano Jan 2012 #94

Bingo! Fearless Jan 2012 #96

Finally, the correct answer, woo me with science Jan 2012 #114

You're right about Hillary Clinton attracting more heat and resistance from the right. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #97

The right wing hates Hilary but they don't hate her as much as having EFerrari Jan 2012 #99

Just my observation based on what I saw in the summer of 2008. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #112

why would you assume it "upsets" someone? paulk Jan 2012 #151

Your mother makes a valid point. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #163

I'm still trying to figure out how she fit inside the ballot box paulk Jan 2012 #164

Oh, I understand. EFerrari Jan 2012 #166

Jesus. Short attention span much? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #150

He made the mistake of thinking he could win over the mythical "middle" and get the GOP to work with Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #109

Who could have done better? Al Gore. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #110

Yes, Jesus. Rex Jan 2012 #113

AMEN!!!!!!! nt mfcorey1 Jan 2012 #117

Anyone who is not dogmatically and idotically opposed to equal rights for minorities Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #119

Sadly NO. GeorgeGist Jan 2012 #120

Depends on your prospective. mmonk Jan 2012 #121

About as well put as can be madokie Jan 2012 #126

I'll take the bait. Yes, Kucinich WOULD have done better. Jim Lane Jan 2012 #128

Here! Since we're "hypothesizing", have one of these.... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2012 #132

Agreed with respect to Kucinich. But there were no Republican filibusters. None. Zero. Zilch. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #141

That is incorrect... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #142

Actually, the usual excuse is that there are not enough votes to satisfy the Senate Rule 22 cloture AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #154

That is what SHOULD have happened Betty Karlson Jan 2012 #156

Since you seem to have answered your own.. 99Forever Jan 2012 #129

Dean. Iggo Jan 2012 #130

Darcy Richardson! There I said it! Tarheel_Dem Jan 2012 #131

Well, as a non-stop campaigner for the office he's aces. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #136

The guy who won the Democratic Primary in 2008 would have done a better job. bvar22 Jan 2012 #137

That guy was really something. What the hell happened? comipinko Jan 2012 #143

What happened to that guy? I hear that he's getting ready to make a comeback. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #158

i think Kucinich may have done better barbtries Jan 2012 #148

It's a silly question. One doesn't have to have an alternative to criticize. jeff47 Jan 2012 #157

It's a meaningless question. Aleric Jan 2012 #161

I believe that Rep. Kucinich could have done a much better job. Zorra Jan 2012 #165

You assume that the desired goal is to attempt to improve. Sirveri Jan 2012 #167

Anyone without a bipartisanship fetish would be an upgrade. TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #169