General Discussion

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)

193. Absolutely...

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:23 PM

Aug 2012

Look at the relentless sales job the small arms manufacturers engage in. You have murder rates at historic lows and a President who really doesn't seem interested in gun control, yet people are buying guns as though there is (literally) no tomorrow.

Buy Now! FEAR!! Buy Now!

...and sales go through the roof.

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"Now is not the time for a gun debate" [View all] tjdee Aug 2012 OP

KNR leveymg Aug 2012 #1

I know! I just had to turn off CNN when that Margaret Hoover Laurian Aug 2012 #2

Don Lemon, a CNN host went on and on about the same thing yesterday aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2012 #182

Why is now "not the right time": OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #3

Oh I don't expect to hear Obama say a peep. tjdee Aug 2012 #4

"More people currently favor gun rights than favor gun control." Gotta citation for that claim? Scuba Aug 2012 #6

Here's a link Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #7

We can protect gun rights while still having some meaningul restrictions/regulations AllyCat Aug 2012 #48

But when you're paranoid, FAILSAFE is the only option... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #61

Yeah, but all that military doesn't make me feel any safer. Medicare for All would though. Scuba Aug 2012 #64

You and your rational thinking....(nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #120

We are a nation that is scared to death because it benefits those that manufacture.... Raster Aug 2012 #192

Absolutely... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #193

There are "gun rights" and "gun abuse." We've been protecting the latter too long. Hoyt Aug 2012 #69

No purchases off the internet Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #133

I was referring to ammunition sales Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #145

How about instead of a ban we just check up on anyone that purchases a ridiculously high amount Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #188

Umm... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #189

Dragging my but to the sporting goods store Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #201

Why shouldn't you? Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #224

That's not a good enough reason. And btw, I rather doubt they appointed you as their spokesperson friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #229

My convenience is really not that important Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #241

Waaa! Waaa Waa! Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #242

Go pound sand Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #244

No you won't... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #246

Wow, it didn't take long for the "I'm a gun owner too" cloaking device to come off Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #254

Thank you for proving my point.... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #263

So what? Most (circa 80%) of gun owners don't hunt. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #272

Compromise? What are you giving up? X_Digger Aug 2012 #291

Every time rDigital Aug 2012 #286

You can't expect to have a proper rDigital Aug 2012 #285

Dragging my but to the sporting goods store tiny elvis Aug 2012 #230

7/10. A somewhat effective appeal to emotion. One question, though: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #233

rub the gun tiny elvis Aug 2012 #236

One massively stupid question... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #243

Where *did* you get your degree in telepsychology? And are you currently licensed to practice in WI? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #269

Knee jerk reactions do no one any favors. rDigital Aug 2012 #284

Here's a couple polling snapshots: OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #8

Neither this poll nor the other one cited by Jeff in Milwaukee back up your claim. Scuba Aug 2012 #24

I believe it does... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #38

Your claim is that more Americans favor gun rights over gun controls... Scuba Aug 2012 #41

Not my claim... Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #55

The last two polls decisively show that "most Americans do not favor MORE gun control". OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #44

Better, thanks. Scuba Aug 2012 #49

I hate to admit it, but it makes a certain amount of sense primavera Aug 2012 #50

Violent crime is at it's lowest nationwide since the 60's. davepc Aug 2012 #60

Yet the perception remains primavera Aug 2012 #75

Violent crime is at it's lowest nationwide since the 60's. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #99

It would probably drop to pre-prohibition levels if we ended the War on Drugs. Quickly too. davepc Aug 2012 #107

Yep, I'll go along with that - n/t primavera Aug 2012 #183

"the illusion that they can protect themselves" PavePusher Aug 2012 #179

Seems to me.... AlbertCat Aug 2012 #62

Segregation, the right to vote, women's rights, etc... OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #81

Guess what else is a constitutionally protected right... AlbertCat Aug 2012 #101

Ahem,...that's a well regulated militia.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #106

Ask yourself: OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #127

Just how are you posting with your quill and ink? clffrdjk Aug 2012 #131

Just how are you posting with your quill and ink? AlbertCat Aug 2012 #164

The laws written in the 1930s and 1960s address firearm designs from the 1850's just fine. davepc Aug 2012 #174

I do not know please inform me clffrdjk Aug 2012 #177

you still haven't made a rational point? AlbertCat Aug 2012 #248

And we have another dodge. clffrdjk Aug 2012 #273

I explained it clearly AlbertCat Aug 2012 #278

A flint lock was state of the art technology back then, as is an AR15 now rl6214 Aug 2012 #226

Maybe it's time to reverse that trend like we did for views on tobacco; bank fraud; pollution; etc. Hoyt Aug 2012 #85

In addition to reversing public opinion... don't forget to repeal that one amendment in the BoR. OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #129

"Why is now "not the right time"" Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #34

That's a myth SecularMotion Aug 2012 #123

Keep saying it... maybe that'll make it true someday! LOL... OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #139

You know if you have to resort to quoting from the joyce foundation rl6214 Aug 2012 #227

It is never good to set policy while emotions are running high Mojorabbit Aug 2012 #219

Chris Christie was recently grandstanding in this very manner: LeftinOH Aug 2012 #5

What debate is there? Heller and Miller are settled law. davepc Aug 2012 #9

there is no right to manufacture guns and there is no right to purchase ammunition. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #14

You can't infringe on rights by doing end arrounds on them. davepc Aug 2012 #16

It would not be an end run on the right to bear arms Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #21

How would that wash with Miller exactly? davepc Aug 2012 #31

You are right on many things, AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #160

If I can only own a flintlock, Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #167

If "sensible regulation" means "new regulations that *I* want", you are very likely correct... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #231

"You can't infringe on rights by doing end arrounds on them" Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #39

They would have a harder time of it if reproductive rights were explicity added to the Consitution. davepc Aug 2012 #45

They don't CARE about the Constitution Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #88

Gun prohibitionists don't care about the Constitution either. nt rDigital Aug 2012 #287

De facto bans are unconstitutional. This is basic constitutional law. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #17

it would not ban your guns Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #22

At least you have given up on the "no right to buy ammo" argument. hack89 Aug 2012 #33

If ammo was scarce people wouldn't be able to plink away every weekend. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #42

Define scarce. Give me some numbers. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #47

Why? Are you a really bad shot? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #90

I am an excellent shot because I shoot a lot. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #114

Sounds like you need a woman. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #148

She's standing right next to me shooting as well. Both my kids are with me too. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #159

The family that shoots together,....shouldn't argue.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #194

Funny enough - we don't. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #196

Ever consider bowling? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #197

We do that. We also camp and hike. And geo-cache. And shoot. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #199

What,...no skydiving? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #204

What's your issue with how my family spends their time? hack89 Aug 2012 #205

Just trying to see if you can picture a life beyond guns. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #207

Guns are a very small part of my life. hack89 Aug 2012 #208

"They represent no threat to you or anyone else" Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #212

I am surprised you are able to walk out of your house in the morning hack89 Aug 2012 #213

LOL!!! I gave up fear LONG ago. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #215

I agree. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #216

Do you wear a seat belt? spin Aug 2012 #259

Given the amount of time you spend... ellisonz Aug 2012 #225

It takes two to "bicker" hack89 Aug 2012 #245

So you're not denying your gun ownership imperils my liberty? n/t ellisonz Aug 2012 #265

Nothing I do imperils your liberty. hack89 Aug 2012 #266

Strait jacket? WTF ellisonz Aug 2012 #267

When I see people so consumed by fear that they can't trust their fellow man hack89 Aug 2012 #270

I'll leave trusting Wade Michael Page and James Holmes to you... ellisonz Aug 2012 #271

But you don't limit your fear to just them hack89 Aug 2012 #274

I fear what your bizarro-land logic is doing to my society. ellisonz Aug 2012 #275

When you fear record low rates of gun violence that continue to decline hack89 Aug 2012 #276

That was several different kinds of vile bigotry and slander and sexism. PavePusher Aug 2012 #187

Just make the price of a bullet $6K. You can have as many as you want though. AllyCat Aug 2012 #51

Unconsitiutional. Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner davepc Aug 2012 #53

"Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner" Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #100

I don't understand the question. davepc Aug 2012 #108

Think Hamilton vs Burr Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #112

What does that have to do with positing an unconsitutional solution to a problem? davepc Aug 2012 #118

Sorry, I get tired of reruns Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #134

I have some shells locked up from ten years ago. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #95

good for you. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #96

Since 2008 there have been over 1 BILLION rounds of ammuntion a year sold in this country Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #137

Ya wanna know what's funny? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #146

ammunition manufacture is also regulated and that regulation can be expanded. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #52

Could you provide an example of what this sensible regulation might look like? davepc Aug 2012 #56

So what ammo regulation would have stopped any of the recent shootings? hack89 Aug 2012 #63

reply to self: no I will not provide details. The details will be cross examined for inaccuracies. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #72

There is broad support for sensible regulations. davepc Aug 2012 #79

translation: no new laws will be viewed as sensible. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #91

Your ridiculous plan would have the immediate and dramatic effect of making guns unavailable... slackmaster Aug 2012 #110

no they would continue to have access to sensible small arms. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #143

The term "sensible small arms" sounds way too much like "sensible shoes" slackmaster Aug 2012 #154

yeah its a fucking joke. I get it. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #180

"Sensible" = "what I, WS, thinks is suitable for others to own". We've seen this before: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #232

What are "small arms" to you? rl6214 Aug 2012 #228

Nothing is settled law...Citizens United proved that...SCOTUS does joeybee12 Aug 2012 #23

What Roberts court decision did the Roberts court overturn in Citizens United? davepc Aug 2012 #36

Where in our history of laws does it say that corporations have the same rights as citizens? jillan Aug 2012 #210

Bad law can be overruled--Plessy v. Ferguson, Dred Scott v. Sanford... lastlib Aug 2012 #67

A long time, if history is any guide. davepc Aug 2012 #70

Heller and Miller only "settled" that handgun bans are unconstitutional DanTex Aug 2012 #77

And none of those things would have any impact on crime, whatsoever. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #247

"Settled" to some degree -- "Reasonable" guns in home, is about all those cases addressed. Hoyt Aug 2012 #92

In-between shootings is the time... liberalmuse Aug 2012 #10

Please, explain how the firearms in lawful hands has "trumped" any of your rights... PavePusher Aug 2012 #80

Shootings in the united states. stonecutter357 Aug 2012 #138

holmes bought guns lawful. stonecutter357 Aug 2012 #140

You have not answered my questions. PavePusher Aug 2012 #178

Two reasons -- one practical and the other philosophical aikoaiko Aug 2012 #11

yeah we need more facts. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #13

Well, maybe you don't need facts to make an argument. aikoaiko Aug 2012 #15

Maybe any facts that come your way you will just deny... joeybee12 Aug 2012 #25

Uh. I'm the one who said lets wait to see what happened in WI to determine how to deter it. aikoaiko Aug 2012 #98

And after we wait and see, you will reject any argument to increase regulation. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #109

Actaully, the NRA worked with us to reinforce the NICS system after Virginia Tech. aikoaiko Aug 2012 #149

"Why do you act like gun rights supporters are opposed to any regulation?" They're not what HE wants friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #234

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #104

It is never the time, and there are no sensible regulations. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #12

Rates of violent crime have been on a downward trend for almost 20 years now slackmaster Aug 2012 #18

Yeah, but that's because we're aborting black male fetuses... joeybee12 Aug 2012 #26

"If it saves just one life..." slackmaster Aug 2012 #30

I'm sure the folks in Aurora are orgasmic over it. lastlib Aug 2012 #89

Until you show us that the killing is getting worse, you have no argument slackmaster Aug 2012 #111

Tell the parent of a murdered child that it has to get worse before we act. lastlib Aug 2012 #217

Appeals to emotion and scorn don't make a sound argument slackmaster Aug 2012 #218

What if the parent of a murdered child disagrees with you?: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #235

he'd rate as a sociopathic douchebag in my book. lastlib Aug 2012 #280

This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #281

Oh, I don't think *he's* the douchebag here: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #282

I took a screengrab of that post- it illustrates how 'liberal' gun controllers can be... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #283

Yet, the gun culture is still promoting arming up as the only way to "protect" yourself. Hoyt Aug 2012 #97

America seems to have matured a bit on this and no longer goes in for hysterical anti-gun 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #19

Yeah, maturity. Or numbness and hopelessness that anything will ever change to make us safer. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #27

Since those bans have been shown to be quite expensive but don't make us any safer 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #29

If a ban saves one life, it's worth it. But don't worry, pal. Arm yourself to the teeth. We only TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #35

It doesn't. 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #37

Proving that something DIDN'T happen is hard. That doesn't mean it didn't work in some cases. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #43

If murder rates had gone down that would be seen as conclusive proof that it worked 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #58

There's a lot of places where you can't own large wild animals, such as tigers. Most people have TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #71

I didn't realize Tiger-assaults were such a major problem in the US 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #73

Do you think people should just be allowed to own whatever dangerous item they want? TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #78

Yes, I think everyone should own a fusion bomb 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #82

Well, why shouldn't we be allowed to own tigers, bombs, etc.? TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #102

Hard to use a tiger or atomic bomb for personal defense 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #113

I think a tiger would make an excellent home defense. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #122

Really? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #125

See, now, I didn't think this was necessary: TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #128

Scalia thinks that RPGs are covered by the 2A. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #105

Finally, we can agree on something. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #249

poe's law. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #253

Are bans your solution to drunken driving? Or drug abuse? hack89 Aug 2012 #54

we regulate cars and drugs Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #83

And we regulate guns. A lot. hack89 Aug 2012 #121

you all are busy deregulating as fast as you can. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #151

You do know that the NRA supported the strengthening of the background check after Va Tech? hack89 Aug 2012 #163

It's an item that serves no purpose other than to kill multiple people at once. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #93

What purpose does alcohol serve other than to intoxicate? hack89 Aug 2012 #126

It's a refreshing beverage that doesn't intoxicate in moderation. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #135

So why not look at the weapons that actually kill the most people hack89 Aug 2012 #142

Hand guns can be used for personal protection without having the added capacity TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #147

So how many bullets are enough for self defense? hack89 Aug 2012 #156

That's a good question, and should be open for public debate. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #168

So you want to ban most every gun in America. Good luck with that. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #169

If that's the way you want to interpret it, that's fine. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #170

Semi-automatic handguns and rifles are the norm. hack89 Aug 2012 #171

Should they be the norm? I don't give a shit about what's popular. TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #176

Yes they should. hack89 Aug 2012 #184

Violent crime in general is down. Does that mean there is nothing to be addressed, when TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #190

Here is my solution to gun violence hack89 Aug 2012 #191

"use the police as a standard"? How many rounds do they own in their homes? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #172

We are talking about how many bullets their guns hold. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #173

if the only problem with guns were suicide you might have a point. nt. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #152

Alcohol contributes to drunk driving, domestic abuse, child abuse, suicide, etc hack89 Aug 2012 #166

Same with cigarettes, booze, recreational drugs, fatty foods, processed sugars, etc 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #132

Yes. And society needs to view guns like tobacco, pollution, fatty foods, confederate flags, etc. Hoyt Aug 2012 #222

Quantitatively not true. OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #68

How does it tax your freedom and hurt us economically by a gun nut not being able to TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #74

To refer to such a narrow example, you'll need to provide specifics... OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #116

You could argue that almost any dangerous item should be allowed until it is proven to cause TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #141

I mostly agree with everything you said. OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #150

In terms of owning an arsenal or stockpile of ammo, I think the chief threat there TwilightGardener Aug 2012 #162

"This is not an easily drawn line" = actually it is. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #198

"The line exists, it is easily drawn." Then draw it, O Wise One- but support your work. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #237

Since those bans have been shown to be quite expensive but don't make us any safer AlbertCat Aug 2012 #40

Analogy fail 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #46

Don't you think our resources would be better spent on things that at the very least haven't been pr AlbertCat Aug 2012 #117

The AWB couldn't be shown by even its most ardent supporters 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #119

Talk about arrogance... joeybee12 Aug 2012 #28

Spin... sibelian Aug 2012 #206

that was a big reason i quit watching the news years ago. barbtries Aug 2012 #20

Here's the thing. 99Forever Aug 2012 #32

The problem is that the gunphobes are such a small group. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #250

What is that supposed to mean? 99Forever Aug 2012 #252

My argument is that fringe groups can't expect representation. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #255

Ahhh yes... 99Forever Aug 2012 #257

You know what I've never gotten? Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #260

Did I say I... 99Forever Aug 2012 #261

That's the gunphobe talking point. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #277

"There's lies, and there's damn lies, and then there's statistics." 99Forever Aug 2012 #279

Why? Too soon after the last massacre? tjwash Aug 2012 #57

re:"Now is not the time for a gun debate" allan01 Aug 2012 #59

K&R... stonecutter357 Aug 2012 #65

Translation: "We don't care if people continue to die. Be quiet." nt Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #66

Edited for accuracy: 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #76

You must be joking! DanTex Aug 2012 #87

guns and mortality: the data is not subject to debate. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #94

Do we really have to do this again? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #115

OK. Here are a few: DanTex Aug 2012 #130

Are you seriously insinuating that guns cause people to murder? Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #251

Umm... the statistics don't lie. DanTex Aug 2012 #292

Congratulations, you got three fails in just one post. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #293

I'm Fine With A Debate... liberallibral Aug 2012 #84

it's done absolutely nothing to curb gun-related violence AlbertCat Aug 2012 #124

Re: inner city gun violence. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2012 #158

Exactly when should we discuss this? humbled_opinion Aug 2012 #86

NRA and gun culture want us to put it off another decade -- another 100 million guns to deal with. Hoyt Aug 2012 #103

The Rightists are already saying that here in our 'librul' home. nt onehandle Aug 2012 #220

And who would these "Rightists" be? Have you alerted on them? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #238

Wow, it has been a long time hfojvt Aug 2012 #136

because mass murder and anna nicole smith are equivalent issues. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #144

no, because we had a ballroom blitz about guns hfojvt Aug 2012 #165

If not now, then when? drm604 Aug 2012 #153

it's like when Jon Stewart said: 'who doesn't want to play the blame game?' samsingh Aug 2012 #155

Two days ago was the right time to talk about guns. ProgressoDem Aug 2012 #157

Now's a good time. JoeyT Aug 2012 #161

"Those aren't the guns I would have used" canEHdian Aug 2012 #175

Those RANCID. PESTILENTIAL. MORONIC. WHORES!!! and their suppurating BLABBER! How dare they!!!!!!!! patrice Aug 2012 #181

Who is this Moloch? nt rDigital Aug 2012 #288

Ancient god to whom children were sacrificed. Link: patrice Aug 2012 #294

I appreciate your reply. I thought it was something like that (evil) rDigital Aug 2012 #295

Great! movie. I've seen it a dozen times and still enjoy it every time. patrice Aug 2012 #296

You should post more often lunatica Aug 2012 #185

the nra will never allow this debate. they own too many congress critters spanone Aug 2012 #186

And that IS one of the things that DROVE this country into an ILLEGAL & IMMORAL war against Iraq ... patrice Aug 2012 #202

If we keep telling ourselves that, we are giving up power to the NRA. If enough of us stand jillan Aug 2012 #211

Nice thread bongbong Aug 2012 #195

all the lead they handle has eroded their higher brain functions. They are left largely as feeble, DainBramaged Aug 2012 #200

IMO the reason right now isn't the time to be debating gun control Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #203

If enough of us start making alot of noise, they will have to listen to us. jillan Aug 2012 #209

Cue our resident Rightists and their sockmonkeys. nt onehandle Aug 2012 #214

A battle of sockmonkeys? Ok nt hack89 Aug 2012 #221

"Rightists" = "Those that don't agree with me" friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #239

no Skittles Aug 2012 #240

The fact that you need to bring the NRA into any gun arguement is telling. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #256

Uh huh. 99Forever Aug 2012 #258

The 2nd amendment is popular on both sides of the aisle 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #264

First of all, I hate guns, period. But the latest shootings have shown that the individuals were IndyJones Aug 2012 #223

Bingo! spin Aug 2012 #262

+1 friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #268

The $64,000 Question rDigital Aug 2012 #289

I agree. ... spin Aug 2012 #290