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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)

95. Could be you are right. Could be my powers of self-delusion were bigger

Tue Jan 3, 2012, 02:48 AM

Jan 2012

than I thought.

I can only console myself by saying that many, many others also were taken in by it.

Basically I think that what happened was that the idea of electing a black man was so "out there", so unexpected and seemingly so "revolutionary", that a kind of projection occurred whereby we thought that his presidency would be "revolutionary" especially after the radical agenda that Bush brought --we thought it would naturally be reversed and we would return or got oa place we thought of in idealistic terms.

IOW, mass projection. I am guilty of it, but now I am wide awake.

So I congratulate you on your clear vision in 2008. I still suffered from idealism and was still reeling from what I saw as the Bush aberration. I know now that it was far more a realistic portrayal of what America is than I thought at the time.

That is why I left only AFTER Obama was elected. Because with Bush in office, I could still pretend that it was BECAUSE of Bush. With Obama in office, I have come to see that America cannot do better. It made me crash out.

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All you folks so unhappy with President Obama, let me ask you a question... [View all] Bob Wallace Jan 2012 OP

Please edit the OP to include Ron Paul BootinUp Jan 2012 #1

Why should the OP include Ron Paul? csziggy Jan 2012 #6

I thought it was a humorous suggestion BootinUp Jan 2012 #10

If you look at Paul's record... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #14

I try not to look at it too much BootinUp Jan 2012 #17

Decided to check my facts... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #32

Ronpaul Stiltskin is a crank. But, he is the fracking fluid, that the Libertarians will use, to own WingDinger Jan 2012 #88

If asked, I'm sure Ron would be proud that he's done jacksquat in Congress. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #101

It didn't come across that way - I guess I needed a sarcasm tag or something csziggy Jan 2012 #47

. BootinUp Jan 2012 #51

Thanks csziggy Jan 2012 #66

FWIW, I laughed. Zalatix Jan 2012 #111

Because Ron Paul is an asshole - like Nader jpak Jan 2012 #144

It's a hypothetical that cannot be answered... kentuck Jan 2012 #2

I Beg To Differ BeaufortPenguin Jan 2012 #37

+1 emilyg Jan 2012 #67

BZZZT Try again. If Obama was just as respected, why did he get more endorsements Kahuna Jan 2012 #84

Yeah, right. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #102

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. Ineeda Jan 2012 #116

Can't criticize? Can't be unhappy? gristy Jan 2012 #3

on the contrary, it's entirely relevant. johnaries Jan 2012 #7

If you're never happy with Obama, that tends to suggest treestar Jan 2012 #33

Really? gristy Jan 2012 #59

You said "can't criticize? Can't be unhappy?" treestar Jan 2012 #65

All WHAT folks so unhappy with the Prez? ClassWarrior Jan 2012 #4

Actually, the criticism I've seen is far from "constructive". johnaries Jan 2012 #13

+1 treestar Jan 2012 #35

It's destructive criticism Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #105

+1 DCBob Jan 2012 #170

That's what's called willful ignorance. ClassWarrior Jan 2012 #125

The willful ignorance was the 2010 election. Kurmudgeon Jan 2012 #134

The Dems turned out to vote. The wishy-washy "centrists" are the ones who stayed home. ClassWarrior Jan 2012 #135

I was thinking the same thing recently. femmocrat Jan 2012 #5

Since you asked, yes, I absolutely think Hillary would have been more effective. Far more effective. Skip Intro Jan 2012 #8

You mean Corporate Whore Hillary? johnaries Jan 2012 #19

Obviously, I don't share your opinion. nt Skip Intro Jan 2012 #40

Geithner, Summers, Rubin, Bernanke, Emanuel. NCTraveler Jan 2012 #138

+1 lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #155

"corporate whore hillary" paulk Jan 2012 #145

You think either Hillary or Obama would have been able to control the "repub attack machine?" treestar Jan 2012 #36

Didn't say that. She surely would have countered it, though, sooner and more forcefully than Obama Skip Intro Jan 2012 #44

On what date would she have "countered it" treestar Jan 2012 #48

wow Skip Intro Jan 2012 #56

You claimed Hillary would have "countered" the Republicans earlier treestar Jan 2012 #70

Remember "Hillarycare"? Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #106

Revisionism. You claim Hilalry would have never let the Kahuna Jan 2012 #87

hmmm... I was just thinkng this LadyInAZ Jan 2012 #89

Fully agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #153

So you want a answer do ya? RegieRocker Jan 2012 #9

Kathy Bates DJ13 Jan 2012 #12

Obama started in the middle onb too many issues. And worried more about..... Logical Jan 2012 #11

I think he started out more to the right. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #20

I was being nice! :-) Logical Jan 2012 #22

Those are perfectly valid behaviors for someone who is cooperative. joshcryer Jan 2012 #41

I think its the opposite mr_liberal Jan 2012 #24

The Health Care bill was far left?? LOL.....ever heard of single payer? That is far left..... Logical Jan 2012 #26

Left wing economists wanted more stimulus mr_liberal Jan 2012 #29

"ever heard of single payer? That is far left....." Charlemagne Jan 2012 #52

Single Payer is NOT "Far Left". bvar22 Jan 2012 #133

Among primary candidates, his healthcare proposal was the least progressive. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #152

A more moderate candidate mr_liberal Jan 2012 #15

Other than standing on his head and saying "Simon says" what more could he possibly Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #92

Nice try. Obama TOOK the bipartisan, moderate tack. Half his proposals used to be GOP "alternatives" Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #107

Hillary BeaufortPenguin Jan 2012 #16

What do you think Hillary would have done differently? octothorpe Jan 2012 #46

She would have stated what she wanted from a healthcare plan and pushed it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #149

Now, come on folks... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #18

And who cares? RetroLounge Jan 2012 #25

But then what else will they post? Number23 Jan 2012 #57

There is a world, a parallel earth, where all those people BECAME president nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #21

"Is there anyone who could have done a better job" RetroLounge Jan 2012 #23

????? that was the LAST square? Skittles Jan 2012 #60

Yup RetroLounge Jan 2012 #63

one of them told me the other day Skittles Jan 2012 #71

Good God - how lame can emilyg Jan 2012 #76

Howard Dean. krispos42 Jan 2012 #27

+1,000 (nt) Autumn Colors Jan 2012 #31

just one of MANY Skittles Jan 2012 #61

Dunno about "many", but it's definitely more than just one or two. krispos42 Jan 2012 #74

+1000 RetroLounge Jan 2012 #64

Right there Autumn Jan 2012 #118

Yep. n/t SmellyFeet Jan 2012 #162

"Is there anyone who could have done a better job..." unkachuck Jan 2012 #28

FWIW you might look at the make up of Congress under FDR. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2012 #34

Big difference between the two. FDR, for example, didn't choose a Geithner-type appointee. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #53

Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Treasury Secretary Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #108

Dern. n/t Bolo Boffin Jan 2012 #115

"Morgenthau used his position as Treasury chief to investigate organized crime and government corrup AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #139

That's not what I was responding to. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #147

(1) I was around in 1945. (2) FDR was the best and I never would have trashed anything that he did. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #159

Sure, Democratic Party and Media support notwithstanding. (nt) (nr) T S Justly Jan 2012 #30

You're not going to like this whatchamacallit Jan 2012 #38

mediocre candy bar Charlemagne Jan 2012 #54

...and would not be allowed to be elected or even allowed to play in the reindeer games. RUMMYisFROSTED Jan 2012 #127

nope, Obama has done exactly what they paid him to do FirstLight Jan 2012 #39

Best answer on the board. russspeakeasy Jan 2012 #42

o no u din't getdown Jan 2012 #43

two sides of the same corporate coin RetroLounge Jan 2012 #68

Paid to "keep the liberals quiet"? Some complain that he's not doing that job well enough. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #160

How is any of that relevant? I mean seriously, even if Barack Obama was the best President Puregonzo1188 Jan 2012 #45

I don't think we are talking of things that are quite the same treestar Jan 2012 #50

No one said 'shut up and accept slavery'? I don't think the slaves would agree with that. Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #124

Just another one of those "best we could do" posts. I voted for Hillary. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #49

That we can never know is precisely what an Existential Dilemma is. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #55

True... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #58

Dean is not only smart, but he would have been a liberal. Sigh. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #62

Oh, I forgot... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #69

He is not a liberal nor a progressive, no. Bonobo Jan 2012 #72

Ah hah! Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #78

The President is an opponent of equal rights for some minorities due to his religion Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #123

Shame DU was for Kerry. joshcryer Jan 2012 #73

I was not. But I wish I had supported Dean. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #75

You were right in this post: joshcryer Jan 2012 #80

WTF was I thinking with Clark... But actually, I think I know. Bonobo Jan 2012 #85

I don't think that's fair. He did exactly what he said he'd do, and that makes him a chameleon? joshcryer Jan 2012 #90

Could be you are right. Could be my powers of self-delusion were bigger Bonobo Jan 2012 #95

That hurts me though, this is DU, we aren't suposed to be "kool-aid" drinkers. joshcryer Jan 2012 #98

A man dying of thirst will happily drink kool-aid. Bonobo Jan 2012 #100

Oh, I do think it was very calculating. I think it was brilliant. It was the greatest... joshcryer Jan 2012 #103

I have come to understand you much better through this exchange. Bonobo Jan 2012 #104

what are you talking about? paulk Jan 2012 #146

There was a very loud "Kerry is the only one electable" contingent on this board. joshcryer Jan 2012 #168

someone who had more experience working with Congress paulk Jan 2012 #77

Who, on the Democratic side of the aisle... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #81

should I take you seriously? paulk Jan 2012 #83

How many days... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #86

"anyone left of Obama" paulk Jan 2012 #91

That's not asking, that's lecturing. LeftyMom Jan 2012 #79

I'm impatient... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #82

Inpatience and rudeness are not the same thing, althoug I think the OFA teaches that Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #122

This is dumb MFrohike Jan 2012 #93

Absolutely right. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #140

I think the OP is missing the point. Xicano Jan 2012 #94

Bingo! Fearless Jan 2012 #96

Finally, the correct answer, woo me with science Jan 2012 #114

You're right about Hillary Clinton attracting more heat and resistance from the right. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #97

The right wing hates Hilary but they don't hate her as much as having EFerrari Jan 2012 #99

Just my observation based on what I saw in the summer of 2008. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #112

why would you assume it "upsets" someone? paulk Jan 2012 #151

Your mother makes a valid point. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #163

I'm still trying to figure out how she fit inside the ballot box paulk Jan 2012 #164

Oh, I understand. EFerrari Jan 2012 #166

Jesus. Short attention span much? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #150

He made the mistake of thinking he could win over the mythical "middle" and get the GOP to work with Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #109

Who could have done better? Al Gore. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #110

Yes, Jesus. Rex Jan 2012 #113

AMEN!!!!!!! nt mfcorey1 Jan 2012 #117

Anyone who is not dogmatically and idotically opposed to equal rights for minorities Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #119

Sadly NO. GeorgeGist Jan 2012 #120

Depends on your prospective. mmonk Jan 2012 #121

About as well put as can be madokie Jan 2012 #126

I'll take the bait. Yes, Kucinich WOULD have done better. Jim Lane Jan 2012 #128

Here! Since we're "hypothesizing", have one of these.... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2012 #132

Agreed with respect to Kucinich. But there were no Republican filibusters. None. Zero. Zilch. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #141

That is incorrect... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #142

Actually, the usual excuse is that there are not enough votes to satisfy the Senate Rule 22 cloture AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #154

That is what SHOULD have happened Betty Karlson Jan 2012 #156

Since you seem to have answered your own.. 99Forever Jan 2012 #129

Dean. Iggo Jan 2012 #130

Darcy Richardson! There I said it! Tarheel_Dem Jan 2012 #131

Well, as a non-stop campaigner for the office he's aces. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #136

The guy who won the Democratic Primary in 2008 would have done a better job. bvar22 Jan 2012 #137

That guy was really something. What the hell happened? comipinko Jan 2012 #143

What happened to that guy? I hear that he's getting ready to make a comeback. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #158

i think Kucinich may have done better barbtries Jan 2012 #148

It's a silly question. One doesn't have to have an alternative to criticize. jeff47 Jan 2012 #157

It's a meaningless question. Aleric Jan 2012 #161

I believe that Rep. Kucinich could have done a much better job. Zorra Jan 2012 #165

You assume that the desired goal is to attempt to improve. Sirveri Jan 2012 #167

Anyone without a bipartisanship fetish would be an upgrade. TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #169