General Discussion

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)

99. But Northern European nations are not socialist.

Sat Jul 7, 2018, 02:05 PM

Jul 2018

In fact they are experts at using capitalism to generate tons of profit.

However, they are almost all strong social democrats. There is a huge difference. They make sure a enough of that profit takes care of everyone in society. But owners of the capital still make a good profit

I am continually amazed at ‘explainers’ on DU trying to tell me that people who identify as Socialist really aren’t. Socialism has a defined meaning...the state owning the means of production. When people who call themselves socialist push for no profit, I tend to believe them.

I am not disagreeing with your points which are accurate, maybe your definitions.

Americans are 50 years away from electing someone who self identifies as a socialist.

BTW. I call myself a social democrat.

Nice discussion.

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What does "abolish profit" mean? [View all] MichMary Jul 2018 OP

Have you asked a Democratic Socialist what it means? n/t leftstreet Jul 2018 #1

I don't know any. n/t MichMary Jul 2018 #8

If you have Google, you can look up their platform leftstreet Jul 2018 #11

So how does a business make money if there is not profit? Adrahil Jul 2018 #29

"Mom and Pop" vs Pharmaceutical Corporation leftstreet Jul 2018 #71

Well, we need pharmaceutical companies. We can't get drugs from Mom and Pop operations. pnwmom Jul 2018 #117

They don't have to be privately owned leftstreet Jul 2018 #119

OR we could have government researchers ALSO developing drugs. pnwmom Jul 2018 #120

THAT would be a huge step forward leftstreet Jul 2018 #121

I'm so sick of this socialism vs capitalism debate. Only a healthy, dynamic blend works. DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #129

Volume. NT mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2018 #108

0% on 100 items 0% on 10,000 items. Adrahil Jul 2018 #112

They conflate the roles of government and private business. Blue_true Jul 2018 #31

Their position is no business owners or profit Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #110

That is a ridiculous viewpoint. Blue_true Jul 2018 #115

DAMN!! lark Jul 2018 #2

I checked their Twitter feed MichMary Jul 2018 #5

Looks like a winning platform...../s comradebillyboy Jul 2018 #9

Really, are you making joke? lark Jul 2018 #12

note the /s comradebillyboy Jul 2018 #18

Sounds reasonable! Oneironaut Jul 2018 #57

I've been thinking this as well fallout87 Jul 2018 #131

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Jul 2018 #80

I don't think it means that MichMary Jul 2018 #81

I wonder why they pick up on the republican accusation that Democrats want "open borders"? George II Jul 2018 #96

It's not quite this simple JackintheGreen Jul 2018 #36

I get your point, but still think attacking it from the profit end is not productive in an election. lark Jul 2018 #142

I actually agree JackintheGreen Jul 2018 #143

well, no profit doesn't seem like a working system, or rather, it comes with all kinds of JCanete Jul 2018 #130

To be their own boss, to bring a product or service to a wider market, to fill an otherwise unfilled WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2018 #3

Does that mean no more stock market? n/t MichMary Jul 2018 #7

Really bad slogan lamsmy Jul 2018 #88

But Northern European nations are not socialist. GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #99

????? lark Jul 2018 #15

I really don't understand this MichMary Jul 2018 #19

Depends on whether they mean 'gross profit' or 'net profit' ... (nt) mr_lebowski Jul 2018 #20

Partially, I agree. lark Jul 2018 #22

Adequate gross profit can look obscene, whe in fact it is not. Blue_true Jul 2018 #47

we have lots of non-profits doing really great things scarytomcat Jul 2018 #33

I have worked for non-profits MichMary Jul 2018 #41

OMG. What, did you have to sell candy bars door to door or something like that? kcr Jul 2018 #91

My employment experience MichMary Jul 2018 #92

Yeah. Relying solely on donations to provide services is a pretty sucky way to do things. kcr Jul 2018 #95

I can't imagine MichMary Jul 2018 #105

Local and state governments do so all the time. kcr Jul 2018 #118

No problem with real non-profits. lark Jul 2018 #42

I think the question becomes how much profit is right scarytomcat Jul 2018 #86

This isn't about salaries, it's about profit. lark Jul 2018 #94

Sane businesses shoot for a gross margin in the 65% range. Blue_true Jul 2018 #40

pay, salary, wages, etc... handmade34 Jul 2018 #114

You aren't thinking broadly enough. lark Jul 2018 #125

You're missing a ton of stuff, though.... Adrahil Jul 2018 #32

Bizam, Bingo. Some simply can't grasp that. I think that EVERYONE that hate the concept of profit, Blue_true Jul 2018 #49

you sure it wasn't edhopper Jul 2018 #4

See the Tweet linked above MichMary Jul 2018 #6

That sign and text looks like "abolish profit from prisons" muriel_volestrangler Jul 2018 #51

Exactly how does that work? Blue_true Jul 2018 #52

i don't know, edhopper Jul 2018 #97

I was curious, so I looked at it. Yonnie3 Jul 2018 #10

But, MichMary Jul 2018 #13

Including you, obviously. ret5hd Jul 2018 #14

Well, MichMary Jul 2018 #17

You wrote that you read the platform said abolish profits. Yonnie3 Jul 2018 #21

The platform didn't say the words in the OP? american_ideals Jul 2018 #30

I made a stupid assumption MichMary Jul 2018 #37

It is difficult. Yonnie3 Jul 2018 #46

So your OP is fake news it seems. Kingofalldems Jul 2018 #70

Feel free to do so. nt Yonnie3 Jul 2018 #38

Just noting that this is the day Skidmore Jul 2018 #89

I couldn't agree more. Yonnie3 Jul 2018 #90

The selection of phrases is important. Blue_true Jul 2018 #53

What does this mean? MichMary Jul 2018 #50

Or to put it another way wellst0nev0ter Jul 2018 #100

They are socialist? GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #102

Boom! Thanks, OP is made up. Kingofalldems Jul 2018 #74

It's a stupid unsellable slogan Loki Liesmith Jul 2018 #16

What if it's targeting for-profit prisons and the like? wellst0nev0ter Jul 2018 #101

Sure Loki Liesmith Jul 2018 #106

I'm a firm believer in source documents. Igel Jul 2018 #23

Maybe no one will be in business Yupster Jul 2018 #24

Come on. DSA is center-left on a world scale american_ideals Jul 2018 #28

I taught history in high school and college Yupster Jul 2018 #43

You almost have it right- the DSA holds one difference Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #72

Can't think of anything Yupster Jul 2018 #98

Profit is "surplus value appropriated from labor." yallerdawg Jul 2018 #104

You gotta be kidding..... Adrahil Jul 2018 #34

they might run a business to earn a living (a pay check) scarytomcat Jul 2018 #25

What about funding future inventory, unexpected expenses? nt Blue_true Jul 2018 #55

bank loans personal capital scarytomcat Jul 2018 #87

Are you a business person? Blue_true Jul 2018 #93

Post a link to their platform if you think it's important? american_ideals Jul 2018 #26

Again, sloppy phrasing. Blue_true Jul 2018 #27

It's a simplistic slogan. MineralMan Jul 2018 #35

As I posted above, MichMary Jul 2018 #39

W-2 Workers Often Don't Think about Profits MineralMan Jul 2018 #44

When I worked W2, I cared a great deal about profits fescuerescue Jul 2018 #116

To continue - Most of my work is for clients who own and operate MineralMan Jul 2018 #48

Most W2 employees only think about their pay checks. Blue_true Jul 2018 #58

No, they mean all profit. See my explanation below. Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #56

You have to understand Marx to understand the DSA and what they want Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #59

Then they're ignoring American entrepreneurship altogether. MineralMan Jul 2018 #60

Agreed. But that's their vision Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #63

Uff da! In that case, they're more irrelevant than I thought. MineralMan Jul 2018 #66

I can understand the reasoning behind it. Though the specifics of implementation Lint Head Jul 2018 #45

Any business person that is making a $10 billion profit, or even a $100 million profit, Blue_true Jul 2018 #61

"rich people being more vocal and politically active than poorer people". Exactly. Most of the poor Lint Head Jul 2018 #84

Here is how a very active DSA type explained it to me. Basically abolishing private business owners Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #54

Silly concept. In worker owned businesses, why should an owner even bother? Blue_true Jul 2018 #64

In thier vision that's all done collectively Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #65

Not workable. Where has true Marxism ever worked? Blue_true Jul 2018 #67

You have to understand Marx to understand what they want and mean Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #62

So why did Marx write the manifesto? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2018 #68

Why? Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #69

So, he was paid to? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2018 #77

My guess is that it is supposed to be "abolish for profit prisons" and the last word got dropped grantcart Jul 2018 #73

No, they mean profit Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #76

I didn't read your comments because they assert a definitive grantcart Jul 2018 #78

Here is one link for you: Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #82

Your patronizing "spoon fed to them" is noted. grantcart Jul 2018 #113

That disproves your point muriel_volestrangler Jul 2018 #123

It is in how they define profits Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #132

Is there anything to indicate the DSA define "profit" like that? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jul 2018 #135

Read Marx, it's where all their base economic beliefs originate Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #136

No, I think you are mistaken in thinking they all stopped thinking 150 years ago muriel_volestrangler Jul 2018 #137

Of course they don't put the hard line stuff out there Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #139

Interesting thread eh? Kingofalldems Jul 2018 #83

Profit vs. Prosperity northremembers Jul 2018 #109

Not to be argumentative but I find these groups tedious and boring grantcart Jul 2018 #111

Here's what it means for elections... GaYellowDawg Jul 2018 #75

They also want to "abolish prisons" grantcart Jul 2018 #79

Abolish profit means "We don't ever want to win an election, ever" comradebillyboy Jul 2018 #85

that means you have a business in Arkansas WhiteTara Jul 2018 #103

the most antiamerican slogan I've heard yet AlexSFCA Jul 2018 #107

People drive innovation and the economy ck4829 Jul 2018 #124

Serious question of my own. Is this actually a concern? JHB Jul 2018 #122

It is not anywhere in the Democratic Platform Wwcd Jul 2018 #127

I know that it's not part of the Democratic party platform... JHB Jul 2018 #128

Here is my concern- when DSA members and endorsed people run on our ticket it becomes our problem Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #133

Well, what do you propose? Shut down every fringe party... JHB Jul 2018 #134

There is no good answer Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #138

I thought it was more... Crutchez_CuiBono Jul 2018 #126

On DU, it often means avoidance of relevant research in order to pretend sincerity. LanternWaste Jul 2018 #140

Can you show me where that is part of the overall platform of Democratic Socialists? NCTraveler Jul 2018 #141