My idiot uncle in Austin....ugh

[Whiskeytide]

17. But the over-arching difference is that democratic...

... thinking is generally fact based and rational. (And I know you weren't suggesting otherwise, but it bears pointing out how far off the rails political discourse has gotten).

I have a lot of republican friends here in Alabama. And my political conversations usually start with a disclaimer that I can tolerate their disagreeing - rationally - with a policy position, but no asinine talking points are allowed. For example ...

... you (republican friend) can take the position that there are abuses in the so-called "entitlement" programs, and advocate for reforms to address those abuses. That's fair enough. I disagree with that position generally, and would point out that such abuses are far less frequent than republicans tend to claim, and that corporate entitlement abuses are far more draining on the country's treasury, etc... etc... But we can have that conversation.

... But you may NOT advocate for doing away with all welfare and assistance programs and making people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "stop being dependent on the Guvmint" because that shit is absurd and cruel, and is not reality based.

Most of them get it, and we can and often do have good debates about policy positions - often finding some common ground, and generally agreeing to disagree about the rest. But they have to stay real. On the rare occasions I have gotten into such a discussion with a trump loyalist, I shut it down pretty quickly because it is a waste of time. They cannot accept a "keep it real" pre-condition.

And that, in my opinion, is the real problem. trump and his cult - along with right-wing media - have thrust the republican party's mainstream positions well into, and in some cases even beyond (see, e.g., baby concentration camps), the extreme territory. Trumpers can't have a conversation anymore because they hate liberals and progressives more than anyone in the world, and have been brainwashed to see us as the greatest threat to the country. Their politicians either a) believe that as well, or b) tow the line to keep the "cult/base" coming out to the polls. That psychotic, use to be on the fringe shit is now what the party stands for front and center, whether traditional conservatives like it or not. That is the trump effect. He has shifted them not to the right, but to the crazy.

So it's not a "we disagree on policy" thing anymore as it once may have been. It's a "I'm trying to figure out how to run the government in the best way we can, and you're a freakin' dumb-ass, assholish, vindictive little nihilist jagoff who wants to destroy everything good about this nation so you can poke someone in the eye and claim you've won something" thing now.

Let's keep the lines clearly drawn.