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pnwmom

(110,265 posts)

116. You can't expect the American people to use your complicated definition instead of

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:12 AM

Jul 2018

the dictionary definition. There is NO REASON we can't use another, better word instead of one that is defined as follows;

Dictionary.com

noun
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

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Why can't we be better about branding? Why are some progressives so determined [View all] pnwmom Jul 2018 OP

Agreed. SHRED Jul 2018 #1

What would you suggest? guillaumeb Jul 2018 #2

Maybe just avoid the word and talk policy? Adrahil Jul 2018 #10

Yes, talk about specific policies. guillaumeb Jul 2018 #179

I agree, and wish more people were affected by rational arguments. Adrahil Jul 2018 #181

The GOP is excellent at framing. guillaumeb Jul 2018 #182

Conservatives frame the New Deal as "socialism", and thus equivalent to Warsaw Pact Police states JHB Jul 2018 #17

Exactly. dae Jul 2018 #59

Yes, the mostly non-existent liberal media. guillaumeb Jul 2018 #180

Democrat Stinky The Clown Jul 2018 #42

Western Europe ARE NOT socialist. The confusion on this is amazing. Blue_true Jul 2018 #45

+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2018 #65

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2018 #89

Thank you for this... nil desperandum Jul 2018 #158

Those of us who live there have always known that DFW Jul 2018 #160

You may have a point about things being intentional. Blue_true Jul 2018 #176

liberals just need to destroy the talk radio psyops, otherwise national discussions certainot Jul 2018 #66

What does Western Europe have to do with Socialism? GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #72

You're right, especially your last (apparently inconvenient) observation n/t DFW Jul 2018 #161

Some people chose to look at the world with blinders on. Blue_true Jul 2018 #177

Post removed Post removed Jul 2018 #75

Isn't it annoying that words have actually meaning, and you can't just change their definition? brooklynite Jul 2018 #3

Kick. Squinch Jul 2018 #4

You are absolutely right. Thing is, they seem to be using it a lot more very recently OnDoutside Jul 2018 #5

Its BernieSpeak Stinky The Clown Jul 2018 #43

Bingo! GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #74

I'll agree. The word is unnecessary. defacto7 Jul 2018 #6

pnwmom-- I totally agree! skylucy Jul 2018 #7

Who knows? It's absurd and will lose us votes. manor321 Jul 2018 #8

On the other hand... Since a lot of tRump supporters are grateful to the USSR (er, I mean Russia) alwaysinasnit Jul 2018 #9

are sweden and Norway even socialist ? JI7 Jul 2018 #11

No, they are not Socialist at all Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #23

Many people think socialism equals communism. LuckyCharms Jul 2018 #12

True. People don't really know or understand these terms. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #21

Communism is an extreme form of socialism. brush Jul 2018 #63

rebuild the safety net. mopinko Jul 2018 #13

I agree. Hitler's party was the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #14

Even if liberal Democrats don't care, we need moderate Democrats pnwmom Jul 2018 #18

Go through Republicans rpannier Jul 2018 #71

'People in her district in NY are very different from most of the rest of the country' melman Jul 2018 #78

You need to come down here & see. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #90

Alexandria's district is only 18% white. That's a huge difference, pnwmom Jul 2018 #145

So what? melman Jul 2018 #172

Except what she (and Bernie and all other Democratic candidates they support) Celerity Jul 2018 #189

Like the Republicans with "conservative," the Nazis just hijacked a label. DFW Jul 2018 #164

Actually, it did have a socialist economical basis. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #171

It didnt have a socialist economy. Most the oligarchs Celerity Jul 2018 #196

You're missing the point. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #197

No, I was specifically responding to your positing it was a socialist economy. Celerity Jul 2018 #198

IMO it is branding and advance promotion for 2020 campaign by a prominent non-democrat nt msongs Jul 2018 #15

Well said. mia Jul 2018 #16

How about liberal? oberliner Jul 2018 #19

I don't know. All I know is the word "socialist" has too many negative associations. pnwmom Jul 2018 #22

What sort of labeling do you think would be effective? oberliner Jul 2018 #25

I think "progressive" doesn't have the negative associations of socialist. pnwmom Jul 2018 #26

I like Progressive. It's far from perfect, but better than anything else I can think of... TreasonousBastard Jul 2018 #37

What's wrong with being just a Democrat? I'm a Democrat. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #92

Nothing, really, except that these labels keep popping up whther we like it or not, so... TreasonousBastard Jul 2018 #109

No, you don't "own" a label assigned to you by your opponent. You continue to "own" your own label. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #123

"Progressive Democracy" has a good ring, too. n/t KY_EnviroGuy Jul 2018 #69

Are you southern? GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #77

Most people in the south will react more to "socialist" than to "progressive." Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #91

I agree. Neither socialist or progressives helps the cause GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #120

Agree. I'd love to see us like Denmark, without the racism, but "socialism" scares Hoyt Jul 2018 #20

Agreed. It simply doesn't mean the same as it does in Europe. Some posters... Hekate Jul 2018 #24

We should somehow bring out the concept of "get your fair share of the wealth YOU helped create." Squinch Jul 2018 #27

Too bad "fairism" isn't a word. pnwmom Jul 2018 #28

Lol! Exactly the concept, though. This is why we need the pr experts. Squinch Jul 2018 #30

Sweden and Norway? Those are capitalist countries not socialist AlexSFCA Jul 2018 #29

Hey, I'm a proud Socialist elmac Jul 2018 #31

it's called social capitalism not socialism. go to webster dictionary AlexSFCA Jul 2018 #33

no thanks elmac Jul 2018 #35

Calling regulation of capitalism "socialism," is wrong and just plays into the hands of the GOP. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #52

You are free to create new meaning for words. GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #79

Why not be called a FDR Democrat? kimbutgar Jul 2018 #32

FDR was NOT as socialist. To equate him with that is wrong. Modern socialists are tagging along. tonyt53 Jul 2018 #38

Brand/marketing ecxpert Donnie Duetsch is supposed to meet with Democratic Ilsa Jul 2018 #34

For once, we get to define the Republicans. Efilroft Sul Jul 2018 #36

Anyone who thinks socialism is a bad word elmac Jul 2018 #39

Anyone who thinks we should reeducate hundreds of millions of Americans pnwmom Jul 2018 #46

Nothing you listed had one whit to do with Socialism GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #80

Agree HopeAgain Jul 2018 #84

Some far left people don't want reform. Blue_true Jul 2018 #40

lol elmac Jul 2018 #58

Why not define it in everyday constitutional language. ancianita Jul 2018 #41

Because that phrase contains the word "socialist." Which has acquired negative connotations pnwmom Jul 2018 #44

Like cowards we hide from stigmatizing of "LIBeral" as well, as if the meaning of "free" is bad. ancianita Jul 2018 #48

"For the people" and "We the People" are constitutional. We are FOR society. Social. ists. ancianita Jul 2018 #50

I don't think the word liberal is as bad, because it's not connected with Soviet Socialist Republic pnwmom Jul 2018 #51

I don't know...right wing outlets (ie, hate radio, fux, etc.) have demonized the word. BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2018 #76

and why would anyone want to sanitize the name socialism? elmac Jul 2018 #47

To win an election. Why be so attached to a word that is connected to the Soviet Socialist Republic pnwmom Jul 2018 #54

Yep. Or they think about Cuba and Fidel and political prisons. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #49

Great. warmfeet Jul 2018 #53

Socialist isn't my identity. The word doesn't carry any warm and fuzzies pnwmom Jul 2018 #56

N.Chomsky: "B. Sanders is not a socialist. He's a decent, honest New-Dealer." AtomicKitten Jul 2018 #55

I'd prefer the term New-Dealer myself. But some market research is in order. n/t pnwmom Jul 2018 #57

Noam Chomsky is wrong. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #61

I quess I could probably call myself a kinda progressive elmac Jul 2018 #60

I don't care about making anyone happy. I just want voters to vote for the Democrat pnwmom Jul 2018 #62

Maybe Meowmee Jul 2018 #64

Terms like "working for the common good" ring much better, or KY_EnviroGuy Jul 2018 #67

I'm a socialist Nevernose Jul 2018 #68

Well, you can't get elected to high office as a socialist in the U.S. Even Bernie knows that. n/t pnwmom Jul 2018 #70

That much we agree on Nevernose Jul 2018 #95

So you believe in government ownership of the means of production? nt SunSeeker Jul 2018 #73

No Nevernose Jul 2018 #93

Then you're not a socialist, you just believe in well regulated capitalism, like the rest us. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #96

No, definitely a Socialist Nevernose Jul 2018 #105

If you don't think government should own all means of production, then you are not a socialist. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #106

Which country? Kentonio Jul 2018 #107

"You sound like you're hung up on dictionary definition." SunSeeker Jul 2018 #108

Like the way gay has always meant happy, and always will because words can't change? Kentonio Jul 2018 #110

There are no socialist governments in Europe. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #122

There are plenty of socialist governments in Europe Kentonio Jul 2018 #147

Wrong. There are no socialist governments in Europe. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #149

That's actually pretty funny Kentonio Jul 2018 #157

I lived in Europe too. Socialists say a lot of stuff, but that doesn't make it true. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #159

Well we'll have to agree to disagree about the socialist countries Kentonio Jul 2018 #165

Our disagreement does not change the fact that there are no European socialist countries. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #167

Ah I should have known that any attempt to ease disagreement would be met with intransigence. Kentonio Jul 2018 #169

Facts are intransigent. nt SunSeeker Jul 2018 #170

Your 'facts' are about as accurate as those we're thrown each week at White House briefings Kentonio Jul 2018 #199

What did I state that was inaccurate? Or did you just post to insult? nt SunSeeker Jul 2018 #200

So what business do you want the government to take over first? GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #81

Neither Nevernose Jul 2018 #94

Socialism does indeed have a definition: SunSeeker Jul 2018 #97

That's inaccurate and oversimplified Nevernose Jul 2018 #101

I cited the Websters definition of socialism, i.e. government ownership of the means of production. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #104

You can't expect the American people to use your complicated definition instead of pnwmom Jul 2018 #116

Better let Webster's dictionary know... GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #119

No, I'm definitely a social democrat Nevernose Jul 2018 #124

Wow. GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #146

Socialism is not a "complicated political concept." SunSeeker Jul 2018 #168

yeah we should totally cave to right wing bullshit bigtree Jul 2018 #82

Yep I'm with you HopeAgain Jul 2018 #83

Liberalism and socialism are NOT synonymous. That is a GOP lie. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #99

I did say not that at all. HopeAgain Jul 2018 #112

We brand ourselves every day, whether we like it or not. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #121

Fine, but lets not shy away from HopeAgain Jul 2018 #125

Of course! SunSeeker Jul 2018 #128

No, how about we use the correct words for what we mean? SunSeeker Jul 2018 #98

If you Google "Socialist Mayors" you see that it was more common 100 years ago. Algernon Moncrieff Jul 2018 #85

Capitalist indoctrination starts on the day we're born in the U.S. YOHABLO Jul 2018 #86

That whole Thom Hartmann "commons" spiel is not describing socialism. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #102

Democratic Progressive Party gulliver Jul 2018 #87

Many of those calling themselves "socialist" don't even understand what socialism is. Garrett78 Jul 2018 #88

Yes, that is painfully obvious from reading this thread. nt SunSeeker Jul 2018 #100

Yep, a big chunk of the problem is people who can't define socialism Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #111

I agree radical noodle Jul 2018 #103

Your friends on the right call every candidate a 'socialist'... even Manchin RandiFan1290 Jul 2018 #113

My friends in the dictionary call people who believe in socialism, socialists. pnwmom Jul 2018 #115

How about the Social party? pwb Jul 2018 #114

If Democrats are going to use the term they must constantly remind people what Medicare, Vinca Jul 2018 #117

IOW, we have to re-educate 300 million people. How about just use a better word pnwmom Jul 2018 #118

Well said. N/T FSogol Jul 2018 #126

Becauase socialist is becoming less and less a dirty word as people are acquainted with it and its JCanete Jul 2018 #127

People are not increasingly embracing government ownership of production. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #130

People are not increasingly selling the notion of ownership of production. If that's what people JCanete Jul 2018 #133

That's what the USA Socialist party is advocating for. Why do we use the same name pnwmom Jul 2018 #134

What word isn't used for different sets of values? Is there one? JCanete Jul 2018 #135

There are LOTS of words that aren't connected with the Soviet Socialist Republic. pnwmom Jul 2018 #136

There are no Democratic candidates associating themselves with Celerity Jul 2018 #192

If you are not advocating government ownership of production, then you are not a socialist. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #137

I don't think you are correct. The wiki page has a far broader definition of socialism that can JCanete Jul 2018 #138

Wiki is not an official dictionary, it is internet poster driven. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #139

It is a word that has been losing its boogieman quality, so I see no reason to try to rebrand JCanete Jul 2018 #140

Socialism is not "gaining traction." SunSeeker Jul 2018 #143

Link: JCanete Jul 2018 #144

That poll just shows many millennials don't seem to know what socialism is. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #148

No, you are continuing to narrowly define what is socialist, but don't seem to have the same JCanete Jul 2018 #150

America and Scandinavia have free market economies. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #151

Not in all things. And regulation is a check on that free market. I'll accept that you don't think JCanete Jul 2018 #152

No, I would not call public services socialism. Scandinavia doesn't either. SunSeeker Jul 2018 #156

Progressive Democrats BlueJac Jul 2018 #129

In general, we're unable to KISS. ecstatic Jul 2018 #131

For everyone keeping score here on DU... vi5 Jul 2018 #132

So far it's just you. Nobody else seems to care... NurseJackie Jul 2018 #142

+1 ck4829 Jul 2018 #153

Vanity? For attention? ... NurseJackie Jul 2018 #141

Because in the near future; Fox News, right wing leaders, religious right officials, Trump, and ck4829 Jul 2018 #154

Adopting a label that doesn't describe us is the opposite of what we should be doing. pnwmom Jul 2018 #155

Just another day of Red Scare frenzy on the Democratic Underground Devil Child Jul 2018 #162

The average American has no positive associations with the word "socialist" or "socialism." pnwmom Jul 2018 #163

Government should control the means of production Devil Child Jul 2018 #174

That's because you ARE a socialist. The vast majority of Democrats and Americans are not, pnwmom Jul 2018 #178

+1 melman Jul 2018 #173

You are correct Devil Child Jul 2018 #175

Here's a radical idea for you DFW Jul 2018 #166

So what are we going to call ourselves after progressive is sufficiently demonized. Glamrock Jul 2018 #183

Some word that isn't part of "Soviet Socialist Republic." pnwmom Jul 2018 #184

Sorry. Glamrock Jul 2018 #185

Sorry. I think it's dumb to alienate hundreds of millions of Americans pnwmom Jul 2018 #186

Do as you wish. Glamrock Jul 2018 #187

Plenty of Democrats and Independents are put off by the term, and accept the dictionary definition. pnwmom Jul 2018 #188

And according to plenty of research and polls Glamrock Jul 2018 #190

Do you have a link for that, please? I can't find anything more recent than 2016. pnwmom Jul 2018 #191

I knew you'd ask Glamrock Jul 2018 #193

But all of these polls still show that large numbers of Democrats and leaners -- pnwmom Jul 2018 #194

Two years ago just as many were put off about single payer. Glamrock Jul 2018 #195