General Discussion

hunter

(40,329 posts)

87. It was the last opportunity to test these new atomic weapons on living cities.

Mon Aug 6, 2018, 02:57 PM

Aug 2018

With the success of the "Gadget" in New Mexico the world was never going to be the same again.

wikipedia

Any plans for a conventional invasion of Japan were moot. The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan didn't "save" anyone.

If Japan refused to surrender the plan was to keep on dropping two or three atomic bombs on them every month until nothing was left.

People today may not realize how much U.S. Americans hated Japan, and how thoroughly racist that hatred was. Even Doctor Seuss got in on it...

wikipedia

People also don't realize how big the Manhattan project was. When the war ended there was only a brief shutdown of plutonium production to improve the safety and reliability of the process. By 1950 the U.S.A. had a hundred "Fat Man" type bombs of the type used on Nagasaki, and these were obsolete and being taken out of service, to be replaced with improved weapons.

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No Choice: Why Harry Truman Dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan [View all] MichMary Aug 2018 OP

Here's a longer article that also talks about the secret talks with Stalin... TreasonousBastard Aug 2018 #1

Thanks for posting the article. MichMary Aug 2018 #3

My father was in Patton's 3rd Army and managed to escape unharmed... TreasonousBastard Aug 2018 #16

So was my father! greatauntoftriplets Aug 2018 #22

My dad was in the Pacific dflprincess Aug 2018 #110

saying "there was no choice" is such a cop-out cvoogt Aug 2018 #2

Japan was negotiating surrender.. MicaelS Aug 2018 #4

And it ended up being a nice show of force to the Soviets Roland99 Aug 2018 #19

Absolutely. MicaelS Aug 2018 #20

Absolutely Separation Aug 2018 #33

The Japanese government was MichMary Aug 2018 #6

Consider that the Italian Government surrendered in 1943... brooklynite Aug 2018 #94

That sounds all well and good BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #8

Good lord. Goodheart Aug 2018 #15

Over a million Japanese troops under arms in China at the time of the surrender, perfectly capable.. Marengo Aug 2018 #31

At the time Separation Aug 2018 #37

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of hindsight is 20/20 BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #95

I know precisely what it means. Goodheart Aug 2018 #134

And, that's a bad argument in any case... Goodheart Aug 2018 #28

Asked and answered BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #96

Plenty Of Hindsight There ProfessorGAC Aug 2018 #11

Some people believed that their was an added factor of racism... CTyankee Aug 2018 #29

Bombing Germany would have raised eyebrows sarisataka Aug 2018 #32

+1000 NT Adrahil Aug 2018 #104

I dont. The bombs weren't ready in time for Germany DetroitLegalBeagle Aug 2018 #35

It Wasn't Done Until The Euro Theater Was Over ProfessorGAC Aug 2018 #46

Germany wasn't considered as a primary target as its defeat was expected to occur before before Marengo Aug 2018 #63

Hindsight goes both ways cvoogt Aug 2018 #81

Huh? ProfessorGAC Aug 2018 #102

not circular logic cvoogt Aug 2018 #105

If Japan blockaded Vladivostok and destroyed some of the bridges and tunnels of the... TreasonousBastard Aug 2018 #13

The Soviets Declaring War on Japan Leith Aug 2018 #25

Truman found out fast at Potsdam. Separation Aug 2018 #48

Wasn't aware Putin was anywhere near Yalta. shanny Aug 2018 #57

Lol freudian slip Separation Aug 2018 #58

Racism would have been a factor. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2018 #103

. sarisataka Aug 2018 #5

Wait . . . MichMary Aug 2018 #7

Yeah, sorta kinda... Wounded Bear Aug 2018 #10

Indeed it is nt sarisataka Aug 2018 #26

Yup, it's the annual self-flagellation day hardluck Aug 2018 #49

No choice, my ass. Goodheart Aug 2018 #9

Ask the POWs in Japanese camps what they think about shortening the war. BSdetect Aug 2018 #12

+1 geardaddy Aug 2018 #21

Our atomic bombs killed 40,000 to 50,000 innocent Koreans who were held in Japan as slaves. Goodheart Aug 2018 #27

The Japanese or Germans would have used atomic weapons if they had them before us. BSdetect Aug 2018 #38

Both the Germans and Japanese were years away from making an atomic bomb VMA131Marine Aug 2018 #62

Uh, in regards to Germany being "years away", you are wrong. Heavy water was already being produced. tonyt53 Aug 2018 #127

Uh, no! They were years away. VMA131Marine Aug 2018 #135

I went to the Japanese military shrine and museum at Yasukuni last week Yupster Aug 2018 #117

A quotation from Felix FRANKFURTER, though even this will be gigged by some: UTUSN Aug 2018 #14

I think genxlib Aug 2018 #17

I used to think that also. Eko Aug 2018 #80

You could be right genxlib Aug 2018 #93

I agree that waiting a few more days would have been right Yupster Aug 2018 #119

I was just a day or two over a week old when it happened. MineralMan Aug 2018 #18

My opinion had MicaelS Aug 2018 #23

Really, I never get involved in arguments MineralMan Aug 2018 #24

It was a weapon we developed to fight WWII, no one else had one until long after WWII was in the braddy Aug 2018 #39

Someone had to be first Cartoonist Aug 2018 #40

As I said, I don't get into arguments about this at all. MineralMan Aug 2018 #41

Good point. nt zanana1 Aug 2018 #133

It was a good decision. nt LexVegas Aug 2018 #30

Fact is, we are the only country to have killed thousands of innocent people with a "special" bomb. Hoyt Aug 2018 #34

We had them surrounded and cut off from the world Cartoonist Aug 2018 #47

We have different views on humane. Hoyt Aug 2018 #50

You didn't answer my question Cartoonist Aug 2018 #53

Ask top generals, admirals from the time. Starvation is your rationale. Hoyt Aug 2018 #56

The Nation is a Russian propaganda rag BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #111

They didn't have to go because there was no reason to go. Those in charge were Hoyt Aug 2018 #112

My dad was ONE of them. In the first US landing in the Pacific, and war effort ended at Iwo Jima. tonyt53 Aug 2018 #129

They Were Already Starved Leith Aug 2018 #64

Maybe we should have taken them food, rather than burning kids with our bombs. Hoyt Aug 2018 #65

Is the First Name on the List Tojo? Leith Aug 2018 #66

Why do you believe the "bomb em" folks. I don't see how annihilating two important Japanese Hoyt Aug 2018 #67

sigh... Leith Aug 2018 #78

Some people are fine with bombs whether defeated Japan, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. Hoyt Aug 2018 #79

That Was Going Too Far and You Know It Leith Aug 2018 #85

Oh, that's a fat load of horse crap. GaYellowDawg Aug 2018 #113

War was over, we are only country to nuke anyone, we are racist, we bully the world now and Hoyt Aug 2018 #114

Wrong GaYellowDawg Aug 2018 #115

And you aren't willing to accept another narrative either. No, I got the point on Civil War and I Hoyt Aug 2018 #118

You have to understand where the population was zipplewrath Aug 2018 #36

Not just us, I bet the Chinese, Brits, Filipinos, Aussies, New Zealand, Koreans, etc., etc., etc., braddy Aug 2018 #43

Some folks might have taken to streets, probably same ones who'd vote for trump or bush. Hoyt Aug 2018 #55

Sorta zipplewrath Aug 2018 #74

"Use it" especially against Asians. We could have demonstrated it on a deserted island. Hoyt Aug 2018 #76

They were afraid it might not work zipplewrath Aug 2018 #88

Oh cool. It might not work, so let's drop it on a bunch of Asians, Hoyt Aug 2018 #91

Sumpin' like that zipplewrath Aug 2018 #92

If Asian casualties are a marker, what about Imperial Japan's "Rape of Nanking," in 1937? VOX Aug 2018 #98

So are you saying we nuked innocent Japanese 8 years after Rape of Nanking as justified retribution? Hoyt Aug 2018 #99

No, I'm not saying that at all. The thread was implying that nukes were okay'd, because...Asians. VOX Aug 2018 #116

The Japanese were slaughtering innocent Chinese, Filipinos, Indonesians, etc until the very end. hack89 Aug 2018 #120

So China should have nuked us for slaughtering innocent Vietnamese and Iraqis? Hoyt Aug 2018 #121

The Chinese were not also killing Americans hack89 Aug 2018 #122

Eisenhower, Halsey, etc., think you are wrong. Hoyt Aug 2018 #123

When would the firing bombing of cities have ended? hack89 Aug 2018 #128

They were defeated and surrounded, do a little reading including Eisenhower's view. Hoyt Aug 2018 #130

So you really think the killing was going to end on 15 August no matter what? hack89 Aug 2018 #131

We appear stuck on this issue, just like your support of guns. The two are similar in many ways. Hoyt Aug 2018 #137

I will take that as a no - the killing would have continued. nt hack89 Aug 2018 #138

The ludicrously expensive and dangerous uranium bomb was a sure thing. hunter Aug 2018 #109

WRONG!!! In the words of Truman's own former CoS: malchickiwick Aug 2018 #42

Except for this inconvenient fact Cartoonist Aug 2018 #44

They surrendered after the Soviets declared war on Japan. Correlation or causation? malchickiwick Aug 2018 #45

Do you know how to read a calendar? Cartoonist Aug 2018 #51

Actually, they had offered terms of surrender before Hiroshima (via the Swiss). malchickiwick Aug 2018 #60

They were dropped for alot of reasons zipplewrath Aug 2018 #89

"They" zipplewrath Aug 2018 #72

All true, can't argue with anything in your post, which is well-nuanced. malchickiwick Aug 2018 #75

I was born after the bomb was dropped cvoogt Aug 2018 #82

Several of those quotes likely don't mean what you think they mean stevenleser Aug 2018 #84

Japan chose not to end the war and vowed to fight to the death before the first beachbum bob Aug 2018 #52

We didnt just kill Japanese Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #54

My Dad was about to be sent over there. rickford66 Aug 2018 #59

This comes up every year on August 6th sdfernando Aug 2018 #61

Every year, like clockwork. roamer65 Aug 2018 #69

Both my parents were serving in the Pacific in 1945 csziggy Aug 2018 #68

We weren't going to stop at Nagasaki. roamer65 Aug 2018 #70

This BULLSHIT again? GeorgeGist Aug 2018 #71

Cool kids gotta prove how cool they are. nt Codeine Aug 2018 #73

Oh, god. Here we go again. Iggo Aug 2018 #77

My Father Was in the Navy in the Phillipines. Preparing for invasion. bitterross Aug 2018 #83

Exactly zipplewrath Aug 2018 #90

My father Mendocino Aug 2018 #86

It was the last opportunity to test these new atomic weapons on living cities. hunter Aug 2018 #87

It must be the first week in August: DU gets to refight the war none of us remembers personally Hekate Aug 2018 #97

I Come And Stand at Every Door. Hoyt Aug 2018 #100

My problem is more with the second bomb thucythucy Aug 2018 #101

Welcome to the 2018 DU A - Bomb debate Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2018 #106

I had long discussions with my parents, especially my Mom on this before they passed... hlthe2b Aug 2018 #107

My dad was in Guam and the Phillipines nini Aug 2018 #125

Those who opposed the bombings will always oppose it left-of-center2012 Aug 2018 #108

I smell divide and conquer. McCamy Taylor Aug 2018 #124

Fully support his decision. nt LexVegas Aug 2018 #126

"Projecting some scary American casualty numbers"? zanana1 Aug 2018 #132

Not that I expect this to change anyone's mind on the subject melm00se Aug 2018 #136