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Sophia4

(3,515 posts)

184. You don't know that Trump would have been stopped by superdelegates.

Wed Aug 15, 2018, 01:02 PM

Aug 2018

My argument is pretty persuasive.

Trump had, by the time of the Republican convention, ridiculed cruelly every one of his primary opponents in the Republican Party. He had formed a cadre of crazy, angry supporters, about 30% of the total population, the Trump or chaos crowd, around him.

Any superdelegate who wanted a political future would never have taken on Trump.

John McCain took on Trump. The Republicans that have taken on Trump have had great difficulty or faded away. That is because Trump won a significant amount of support from crazy Republicans primed by Koch Brothers' propaganda and Fox News.

Superdelegates would have been helpless in the face of Trump.

Superdelegates are generally just an ego trip for bigwig Democrats. Let's end the superdelegate tradition. It is useless and makes us look undemocratic. It makes it easy to say the Democratic Party rigs its nominations. No to superdelegates.

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Congressional Black Caucus chair blasts proposed superdelegate changes [View all] Gothmog Aug 2018 OP

Me too JustAnotherGen Aug 2018 #1

Majority rules. Not a privileged minority of superdelegates. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #3

Superdelegates did not change anything in the real world Gothmog Aug 2018 #4

So why have them? Is it just a form of flattery? Is it to feed their egos? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #8

again, you did not even vote for the democratic party nominee in 2016 JI7 Aug 2018 #23

A lot of people did not vote for the Democratic Party nominee in 2016. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #24

I'm in california , she won huge because of people like me that voted JI7 Aug 2018 #25

Big margin of victory for Hillary in California. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #167

How many doors did you knock? Calls made? Money raised? Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #248

Did you vote for Hillary in the General? (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #108

she won't answer that question heaven05 Aug 2018 #189

No surprise. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #197

You sound sincere in stating your position and probably are, Hortensis Aug 2018 #165

The superdelegate concept represents the ultimate in conceit and heavyhandedness. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #168

I can't blame someone for trying to trash MY VOTE Hortensis Aug 2018 #169

Well Put Me. Aug 2018 #241

DID you vote heaven05 Aug 2018 #188

They are leaders of the party who worked hard to get elected Gothmog Aug 2018 #31

I am 75 and started working on campaigns when I was very young. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #186

So in addition to not voting for our party's nominee, you have not worked on a campaign in Gothmog Aug 2018 #196

I was extremely active in the Obama campaigns, the Kerry campaign, etc. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #201

No, my assumptions have been proven correct by your posts Gothmog Aug 2018 #219

What we do not need are caucuses, the modern-day version of the old smoke-filled rooms, pnwmom Aug 2018 #293

I been a Democratic volunteer for 44 years. I am not insulted. N/T lapucelle Aug 2018 #98

I am 75, and I have been a volunteer for more than 45 years although I lived Sophia4 Aug 2018 #187

You said "superdelegates are an insult to volunteers". lapucelle Aug 2018 #247

We have them to guard against a trump-type candidate brush Aug 2018 #176

Republicans would never have dared to vote or work against Trump in 2016. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #191

They actually DID work against Trump until he won. Why rewrite history? bettyellen Aug 2018 #194

He won. Do you really think that Republicans would not have won the electoral college Sophia4 Aug 2018 #199

You're a broken record. You don't know any of that. You just keep repeating yourself. brush Aug 2018 #204

I DO know it. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #206

What? You have a crystal ball into the past that tells you how repugs... brush Aug 2018 #215

I have logic and experience. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #261

Hahahahaha! brush Aug 2018 #262

Did you vote Democratic Party heaven05 Aug 2018 #258

Why are you asking? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #260

Didn't have to heaven05 Aug 2018 #263

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2018 #190

Wikipedia on the history of superdelegates. They are a more recent idea than you would think. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #195

And they have the right to vote in their own primaries Bettie Aug 2018 #99

Well - I'm a county committee elected official JustAnotherGen Aug 2018 #12

I agree about the caucuses. Are you a paid official? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #14

Oh please just stop. Everyone does have one vote. boston bean Aug 2018 #45

But Super Delegates get a vote they don't earn. It's as if they get two votes. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #56

Umm no every single delegate gets a vote. boston bean Aug 2018 #60

Super delegates are not elected. They vote as delegates without being elected by the Sophia4 Aug 2018 #63

Delegates are nominated by people at the party level. boston bean Aug 2018 #64

Delegates are bound by the voters unlike superdelegates Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #130

Actually, no, they aren't. Pledged delegates are not bound. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #132

Regardless, they are generally already a supporter of that person Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #134

Their purpose is to serve as a failsafe and to put someone over 2382 when a race is close. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #137

Well then we are in agreement Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #138

No, no strawman. They are people who vote at the convention on behalf of others. boston bean Aug 2018 #157

I was a delegate to the national convention Gothmog Aug 2018 #221

You are wrong Gothmog Aug 2018 #220

Can you argue for that? Recursion Aug 2018 #52

The Democratic Party should support and defend the idea of one vote, one person Sophia4 Aug 2018 #53

Do you really think that this concept applies? Gothmog Aug 2018 #88

You do realize that no one votes for a delegates directly Gothmog Aug 2018 #87

Sounds a lot like democracy!! I'm all for it. InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2018 #126

How many African American Senators do we have? Governors? Presidents? pnwmom Aug 2018 #292

It's a democratic election. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #2

Members of the CBC are party leaders and deserve a seat at the table Gothmog Aug 2018 #5

Amen. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #6

I and all the other party members who do the leg-work, who make the calls, who talk Sophia4 Aug 2018 #7

Do you really think that members of the CBC are lazy? Gothmog Aug 2018 #9

No less lazy than voters who get up early, travel rain or shine, stand in line to vote in primaries Sophia4 Aug 2018 #10

Have you ever worked on a campaign in the real world? Gothmog Aug 2018 #33

you didn't even vote for the party nominee Clinton in 2016 JI7 Aug 2018 #20

You know nothing about me. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #21

Hillary won most votes without superdelegates alsoi and you did not vote for the nominee JI7 Aug 2018 #22

Who I voted or did not vote for has nothing to do with superdelegates Sophia4 Aug 2018 #61

Actually if you didn't vote for Clinton in the general, your point is moot. JHan Aug 2018 #171

Yes! George II Aug 2018 #198

Great post Gothmog Aug 2018 #222

Oh wow JustAnotherGen Aug 2018 #228

Most articulate post I have seen in a long time. I hope you didin't confuse anyone with the facts. still_one Aug 2018 #229

+1 betsuni Aug 2018 #232

WowEE ZowEE Me. Aug 2018 #235

KABOOM! SunSeeker Aug 2018 #255

if you "did not vote for HRC in the general, heaven05 Aug 2018 #257

+100 Hekate Aug 2018 #268

Thank you for this post Gothmog Aug 2018 #290

Of course we know you by your posts, and your posts have said you didn't R B Garr Aug 2018 #26

If the superdelegates don't make a difference in the outcome of the election, then Sophia4 Aug 2018 #59

Your posts are how we know you. For instance, your posts on this thread R B Garr Aug 2018 #68

The Democratic Party can end the custom of superdelegates as well as the caucuses Sophia4 Aug 2018 #69

That is still no excuse to spread misinformation about superdelegates. R B Garr Aug 2018 #72

Superdelegates are an attempt to rig the system. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #73

There is no history of superdelegates rigging the system, so the abuse R B Garr Aug 2018 #75

Then, why have superdelegates? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #183

Okay, this is sounding very strange now. It is not based in logic other than R B Garr Aug 2018 #212

That is not true at all. It's a smear against the Democratic Party. bettyellen Aug 2018 #78

Is the Democratic Party some perfect entity that cannot be improved? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #181

Just stop it. Super delegates are a fail safe against a trump-like nominee. brush Aug 2018 #177

The candidate who won the most votes did not need the superdelegates to win the Sophia4 Aug 2018 #178

You keep repeating the same crappola over and over without... brush Aug 2018 #179

Trump would not have been stopped by superdelegates. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #180

You don't know that trump would not have been stopped so stop pretending you do. brush Aug 2018 #182

You don't know that Trump would have been stopped by superdelegates. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #184

That's done at the state level. nt fleabiscuit Aug 2018 #152

At least as far as the ending of caucuses. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #153

You are the one spreading misinformation leading to "misunderstandings and controversies" yet you bettyellen Aug 2018 #202

What is Tapas? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #207

Weird spell correction. Why do YOU spread the misinformation and then use it as justification? bettyellen Aug 2018 #210

Hall and Oates is one of my favorite singing duos... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #291

So you think that the CBC is wrong. Why do you think that you know more than they do ehrnst Aug 2018 #172

It is not the entire CBC Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #174

Thank you, but that question was directed to Sophia4, not the OP. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #175

Please clarify if you voted for Hillary Clinton in the general election Gothmog Aug 2018 #42

I'm in California. I voted my conscience as I expect every other voter to do. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #58

Voting is about what's best for society, not selfishness. betsuni Aug 2018 #83

That poster is attacking the party when they are not a real democrat Gothmog Aug 2018 #269

This almost sounds like you didn't vote for the Democratic candidate in the 2016 general election. lapucelle Aug 2018 #86

That is my reading of this response also Gothmog Aug 2018 #94

It's troubling to say the least. N/T lapucelle Aug 2018 #96

I, like all Americans, vote for the candidate that I believe is the best for my country. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #170

You think that Democratic primaries are a "a joke" and you ehrnst Aug 2018 #106

You voted for Hillary actually Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #128

A "scent of unfairness " is a fact how exactly? bettyellen Aug 2018 #44

How is it not a fact? Sophia4 Aug 2018 #57

You are accusing Dems of dishonesty and corruption. Wow. Something smells alright. bettyellen Aug 2018 #65

Actually the Democrats are right in this case. Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #125

"Actually the Democrats are right in this case." lapucelle Aug 2018 #158

Freudian. George II Aug 2018 #162

These are proposed changes. lapucelle Aug 2018 #159

It's actually pure propaganda like you are spreading here that is intended to R B Garr Aug 2018 #79

You mean like they do in the Vermont Senate race? (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #107

The persons who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton are not good democrats Gothmog Aug 2018 #200

Your opinion is noted. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #205

I am active in the party in the real world Gothmog Aug 2018 #217

You keep fabricating catastrophic results of superdelegates where none exist. R B Garr Aug 2018 #30

I am simply expressing my opinion. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #272

Your scenarios aren't real, though. So having an R B Garr Aug 2018 #276

I am entitled to my opinion and don't need to be harassed about it. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #281

This is a message board. If you are posting false scenarios R B Garr Aug 2018 #284

Did I read upthread that you did not vote for the Democratic nominee in the 2016 GE? lapucelle Aug 2018 #80

Why ask? I haven't asked you who you voted for. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #273

Staunch Democrats vote for Democratic nominees in presidential elections. lapucelle Aug 2018 #275

California voted strongly for Trump. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #277

No one is picking on you, and you are not California. N/T lapucelle Aug 2018 #278

I am curious as to whether you have ever worked in a real campaign? Gothmog Aug 2018 #93

I have worked in numerous real campaigns. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #274

We may have a different framework as to what it means to work on a campaign Gothmog Aug 2018 #279

Texas tends to vote Republican. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #282

Texas is not a red state but a non-voting state Gothmog Aug 2018 #285

Good luck in Texas. We will have to agree to disagree on super delegates. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #287

Again, you do not understand the process Gothmog Aug 2018 #289

Something doesn't feel heaven05 Aug 2018 #193

I support the Democratic Party and do not want to hurt the party Gothmog Aug 2018 #270

Truthfully JustAnotherGen Aug 2018 #16

And that was the intent of the rules back in the 70's LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #27

THANK! YOU! Tarheel_Dem Aug 2018 #62

I am friends with two members of the CBC Gothmog Aug 2018 #95

An they didn't express and opinion in the OP, only the chairman did Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #100

Neither of these two members of the CBC had any kind things to say about sanders Gothmog Aug 2018 #110

We are not talking about Sanders, we are talking about a rule change Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #135

The rule change is only being proposed because sanders' feelings were hurt Gothmog Aug 2018 #140

Then why didn't these upset members express an opinion with the chairman? Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #141

They have through the CBC Gothmog Aug 2018 #146

One seat? Or 10,000 seats? Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #120

Agreed - and that's why you need to get on board JustAnotherGen Aug 2018 #13

Thanks. I'm in California where we have primaries. Caucuses are unfair to working Sophia4 Aug 2018 #15

Caucuses should be gone. But they have nothing to do with the popular vote. LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #28

IDK. I'm more and more in favor of smoke-filled rooms Recursion Aug 2018 #37

Smoke filled rooms were OK when communication was poor, back in the 19th century. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #66

Parties don't have a responsibility to be democracies though Recursion Aug 2018 #81

And as they have never reversed the will of the primary voters, what good has it done? mythology Aug 2018 #133

Should delegates also not be free to switch after the first round? Recursion Aug 2018 #156

You do realize that no one votes for a delegates directly Gothmog Aug 2018 #97

We vote for a list of delegates to the convention here in California. Sophia4 Aug 2018 #155

Those are delegates to state convention Gothmog Aug 2018 #164

Like Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson? joshcryer Aug 2018 #154

did you call ALL members heaven05 Aug 2018 #192

"Third Way Plus"? Just call it "Superfluous Fluff" oasis Aug 2018 #11

The only way one group could be harmed is if superdelegates decide the nomination mythology Aug 2018 #17

I agree. Ace Rothstein Aug 2018 #218

So they don't vote on the first tally Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #18

Members of the CBC are more important to the party than people pushing this rule change Gothmog Aug 2018 #34

The proposed change only stops a first round vote Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #36

Again these are leaders of the party who are more important to the party than sanders supporters Gothmog Aug 2018 #39

Otherwise known as "democrats" zipplewrath Aug 2018 #49

I guess we are back to "ha ha we don't need your votes!" Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2018 #103

How is Our Revolution doing lately? Gothmog Aug 2018 #114

Um zipplewrath Aug 2018 #117

Their candidates are winning Gothmog Aug 2018 #118

I know what you mean zipplewrath Aug 2018 #115

Actually you have never really heard how it would R B Garr Aug 2018 #143

+1 betsuni Aug 2018 #149

What "40% of the Democratic electorate" would that be? ehrnst Aug 2018 #173

And yet these so-called leaders want to hurt the party by punishing the CBC? Gothmog Aug 2018 #113

Punishing? zipplewrath Aug 2018 #116

These are elected leaders of the party who represent an important demographic Gothmog Aug 2018 #119

Fine, the state parties can select minorities as regular delegates MichMan Aug 2018 #124

Which results in a new reduction of the delegates each states have Gothmog Aug 2018 #214

That is a completely different argument for keeping superdelegates MichMan Aug 2018 #239

Each state has an allocated number of regular delegate slots Gothmog Aug 2018 #265

So are the people voting for this zipplewrath Aug 2018 #209

I Stand With The CBC Me. Aug 2018 #19

Why should Sanders even determine the rules? LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #29

That The Question That Needs To Be Answered Me. Aug 2018 #32

I support the leaders of the party in the CBC Gothmog Aug 2018 #40

I'm a party member that voted for Hillary in the general election Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #55

Did Sanders vote for this? zipplewrath Aug 2018 #46

I Am Not A Member Of The DNC Me. Aug 2018 #47

But didn't this pass? zipplewrath Aug 2018 #48

No Me. Aug 2018 #50

We'll see if it passes zipplewrath Aug 2018 #76

why? JCanete Aug 2018 #51

Sanders is the one pushing for these changes which is amusing Gothmog Aug 2018 #163

How does he "push" when he isn't there? zipplewrath Aug 2018 #208

Do you really believe this? Gothmog Aug 2018 #216

Sorta zipplewrath Aug 2018 #233

I know some CBC members and will try to ask if I get a chance Gothmog Aug 2018 #237

It was zipplewrath Aug 2018 #234

All of the materials that I have seen is that it is sanders and his followers pushing this Gothmog Aug 2018 #236

Okay. MaryELease Aug 2018 #35

the 30% would have 90 Senators dsc Aug 2018 #38

Funny thing about privilege. People don't like it when others have it but like it when it jalan48 Aug 2018 #41

I'm not sure how giving disproportionate power to people annointed with it is reasonable to him. JCanete Aug 2018 #43

I support the CBC. That is all. nt. spicysista Aug 2018 #54

What does that mean in this context? whatever a member of CBC says you are automatically on board? JCanete Aug 2018 #67

Wow! spicysista Aug 2018 #71

I'm not comforable with Bee's framing at all. She literally led up to it with talking about Carter JCanete Aug 2018 #74

Needless to say, I disagree with your claims Gothmog Aug 2018 #225

needless to say, you didnt' address any of my points, convincing me that I should reconsider, with JCanete Aug 2018 #226

I did but the fact that you did not understand my response is not my problem Gothmog Aug 2018 #238

you refuted 0 points I made. I mean, tell yourself whatever you want to tell yourself, JCanete Aug 2018 #249

The fact that you think that you raised points amuses me greatly Gothmog Aug 2018 #250

Okay, for whatever reasons you want to have this conversation without actually having a conversation JCanete Aug 2018 #252

Make a real argument or use facts to back your amusing claims Gothmog Aug 2018 #253

Goth facts...: cut and paste for any discussion. JCanete Aug 2018 #254

Come visit the real world Gothmog Aug 2018 #256

when an OR candidate loses by a small margin it isn't making a difference, it is "failing" JCanete Aug 2018 #259

How is a non-democrat running against a real democrat making a difference? Gothmog Aug 2018 #264

Sanders isn't a huge departure from Clinton on policy either. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #246

This was a well done and accurate explanation of super delegates Gothmog Aug 2018 #223

Sam is great! spicysista Aug 2018 #227

She is always great Gothmog Aug 2018 #231

I, too, stand with the CBC, and not with those who seek to dilute the power of elected minorities... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2018 #70

Note this is only the Chairman's opinion, not the entire CBC Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #77

How do you know this? Do you know any members of the CBC? Gothmog Aug 2018 #203

They are not in the OP YOU posted Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #211

So you do not have any proof for this silly claim Gothmog Aug 2018 #213

Back up your claim Omaha Steve Aug 2018 #224

The super delegate just says to the other person running MyNameGoesHere Aug 2018 #82

Honestly, these comments..... spicysista Aug 2018 #84

It is like those myths we hold onto even in the face of evidence. Caliman73 Aug 2018 #90

Exactly! spicysista Aug 2018 #91

Is the number of regular delegates reduced by having superdelegates? MichMan Aug 2018 #85

No Gothmog Aug 2018 #92

Why couldn't that same state be awarded more regular delegates instead? MichMan Aug 2018 #104

That is not how the allocation process works Gothmog Aug 2018 #109

I'm willing to bet elimination will lead to fewer regular delegates. KitSileya Aug 2018 #144

Superdelegates, like caucuses, are undemocratic relics of the past. It is also extremely asinine tritsofme Aug 2018 #89

Superdelegates can do one of two things........ Takket Aug 2018 #101

Elected officials also increase the influence of states that elect democrats to office Gothmog Aug 2018 #112

Right they should not exist. I support the Democratic party's decision in this. Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #121

Sign me up for supporting the super delegates too. Old Terp Aug 2018 #102

Superdelegates are anti-Democratic Power 2 the People Aug 2018 #105

Who votes for super delegates in the real world? Gothmog Aug 2018 #111

You were a bound delegate. Very different from what an unbound superdelegate was. Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #122

This message was self-deleted by its author Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #123

LOL-you clearly do not understand the rules at all Gothmog Aug 2018 #139

You stand correct. However pledged delegates are far more democratic than superdelegates. Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #142

Not really Gothmog Aug 2018 #145

I guess this sort of explains why they prefer caucuses to primaries: George II Aug 2018 #160

I was so glad that the Texas got rid of the Texas two step Gothmog Aug 2018 #161

+1 SkyDancer Aug 2018 #127

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2018 #185

Tom Perez is not a great representative for the democratic party. Kajun Gal Aug 2018 #129

The local party activists and officials, and Members of Congress can all have one vote like the rest CentralMass Aug 2018 #131

Get rid of caucuses and I wouldn't object to the new rule. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #136

DNC rule change angers Sanders supporters Gothmog Aug 2018 #147

So No Cut & Run In The Future? Me. Aug 2018 #240

Yep Gothmog Aug 2018 #242

Excellent Me. Aug 2018 #243

Here is the letter from the head of the CBC Gothmog Aug 2018 #148

I bet if they changed the name to "regular delegate" they'd get less flack. ucrdem Aug 2018 #150

They are not called super delegates in the party rules Gothmog Aug 2018 #166

The official term being unpledged? How about "standing"? ucrdem Aug 2018 #244

All delegates are not bound and can vote for anyone Gothmog Aug 2018 #251

That is simply shameful. ucrdem Aug 2018 #266

In normal campaigns, delegates are carefully vetted by the candidates Gothmog Aug 2018 #267

Did you ever see "On the Waterfront"? ucrdem Aug 2018 #280

I stand with the CBC on this. LisaM Aug 2018 #151

It's hard giving up establishment power. aikoaiko Aug 2018 #230

Eliminate superdelegates, eliminate caucauses, and close the primaries. Devil Child Aug 2018 #245

California DNC Member Suggests Superdelegate Reform Is Part Of Russian Plot Gothmog Aug 2018 #271

I think everyone's vote should be equal. Vinca Aug 2018 #283

How does this apply? Gothmog Aug 2018 #286

My state is a good example of why this irks the heck out of me. Vinca Aug 2018 #288