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In reply to the discussion: Congressional Black Caucus chair blasts proposed superdelegate changes [View all]Sophia4
(3,515 posts)195. Wikipedia on the history of superdelegates. They are a more recent idea than you would think.
After the 1968 Democratic National Convention, at which pro-Vietnam War liberal Hubert Humphrey was nominated for the presidency despite not running in a single primary election, the Democratic Party made changes in its delegate selection process to correct what was seen as "illusory" control of the nomination process by primary voters.[15] A commission headed by South Dakota Senator George McGovern and Minnesota Representative Donald M. Fraser met in 1969 and 1970 to make the composition of the Democratic Party's nominating convention less subject to control by party leaders and more responsive to the votes cast in primary elections.
The rules implemented by the McGovern-Fraser Commission shifted the balance of power to primary elections and caucuses, mandating that all delegates be chosen via mechanisms open to all party members.[15] As a result of this change the number of primaries more than doubled over the next three presidential election cycles, from 17 in 1968 to 35 in 1980.[15] Despite the radically increased level of primary participation, with 32 million voters taking part in the selection process by 1980, the Democrats proved largely unsuccessful at the ballot box, with the 1972 presidential campaign of McGovern and the 1980 re-election campaign of Jimmy Carter resulting in landslide defeats.[15] Democratic Party affiliation skidded from 41 percent of the electorate at the time of the McGovern-Fraser Commission report to just 31 percent in the aftermath of the 1980 electoral debacle.[15]
Further soul-searching took place among party leaders, who argued that the pendulum had swung too far in the direction of primary elections over insider decision-making, with one May 1981 California white paper declaring that the Democratic Party had "lost its leadership, collective vision and ties with the past," resulting in the nomination of unelectable candidates.[16] A new 70-member commission headed by Governor of North Carolina Jim Hunt was appointed to further refine the Democratic Party's nomination process, attempting to balance the wishes of rank-and-file Democrats with the collective wisdom of party leaders and to thereby avoid the nomination of insurgent candidates exemplified by the liberal McGovern or the anti-Washington conservative Carter and lessening the potential influence of single-issue politics in the selection process.[16]
Following a series of meetings held from August 1981 to February 1982, the Hunt Commission issued a report which recommended the set aside of unelected and unpledged delegate slots for Democratic members of Congress and for state party chairs and vice chairs (so-called "superdelegates"
.[16] With the original Hunt plan, superdelegates were to represent 30% of all delegates to the national convention, but when it was finally implemented by the Democratic National Committee for the 1984 election, the number of superdelegates was set at 14%.[17] Over time this percentage has gradually increased, until by 2008 the percentage stood at approximately 20% of total delegates to the Democratic Party nominating convention.[. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
20% of delegates being superdelegates is absolutely disgraceful in my view.
I remember listening to the old-fashioned Democratic conventions -- sitting on my father's knees. It was person-to-person haggling and making deals that we, the public, really didn't know much about.
Today, we can do better. We have the internet and can keep well informed. We do not need "wiser," "smarter," "more experienced," leaders (ha, ha, ha) to tell us which candidate to nominate.
Mind you, the superdelegates did not change anything in recent nominating processes. But the threat is there. If the leadership of the Democratic Party cannot educate and persuade voters to vote intelligently, that leadership should be replaced.
Superdelegates are a lazy alternative to educating voters. And that is only one of the reasons that I oppose their existence.
The rules implemented by the McGovern-Fraser Commission shifted the balance of power to primary elections and caucuses, mandating that all delegates be chosen via mechanisms open to all party members.[15] As a result of this change the number of primaries more than doubled over the next three presidential election cycles, from 17 in 1968 to 35 in 1980.[15] Despite the radically increased level of primary participation, with 32 million voters taking part in the selection process by 1980, the Democrats proved largely unsuccessful at the ballot box, with the 1972 presidential campaign of McGovern and the 1980 re-election campaign of Jimmy Carter resulting in landslide defeats.[15] Democratic Party affiliation skidded from 41 percent of the electorate at the time of the McGovern-Fraser Commission report to just 31 percent in the aftermath of the 1980 electoral debacle.[15]
Further soul-searching took place among party leaders, who argued that the pendulum had swung too far in the direction of primary elections over insider decision-making, with one May 1981 California white paper declaring that the Democratic Party had "lost its leadership, collective vision and ties with the past," resulting in the nomination of unelectable candidates.[16] A new 70-member commission headed by Governor of North Carolina Jim Hunt was appointed to further refine the Democratic Party's nomination process, attempting to balance the wishes of rank-and-file Democrats with the collective wisdom of party leaders and to thereby avoid the nomination of insurgent candidates exemplified by the liberal McGovern or the anti-Washington conservative Carter and lessening the potential influence of single-issue politics in the selection process.[16]
Following a series of meetings held from August 1981 to February 1982, the Hunt Commission issued a report which recommended the set aside of unelected and unpledged delegate slots for Democratic members of Congress and for state party chairs and vice chairs (so-called "superdelegates"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
20% of delegates being superdelegates is absolutely disgraceful in my view.
I remember listening to the old-fashioned Democratic conventions -- sitting on my father's knees. It was person-to-person haggling and making deals that we, the public, really didn't know much about.
Today, we can do better. We have the internet and can keep well informed. We do not need "wiser," "smarter," "more experienced," leaders (ha, ha, ha) to tell us which candidate to nominate.
Mind you, the superdelegates did not change anything in recent nominating processes. But the threat is there. If the leadership of the Democratic Party cannot educate and persuade voters to vote intelligently, that leadership should be replaced.
Superdelegates are a lazy alternative to educating voters. And that is only one of the reasons that I oppose their existence.
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Congressional Black Caucus chair blasts proposed superdelegate changes [View all]
Gothmog
Aug 2018
OP
The superdelegate concept represents the ultimate in conceit and heavyhandedness.
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#168
So in addition to not voting for our party's nominee, you have not worked on a campaign in
Gothmog
Aug 2018
#196
What we do not need are caucuses, the modern-day version of the old smoke-filled rooms,
pnwmom
Aug 2018
#293
He won. Do you really think that Republicans would not have won the electoral college
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#199
You're a broken record. You don't know any of that. You just keep repeating yourself.
brush
Aug 2018
#204
Wikipedia on the history of superdelegates. They are a more recent idea than you would think.
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#195
Super delegates are not elected. They vote as delegates without being elected by the
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#63
Their purpose is to serve as a failsafe and to put someone over 2382 when a race is close.
Garrett78
Aug 2018
#137
No, no strawman. They are people who vote at the convention on behalf of others.
boston bean
Aug 2018
#157
The Democratic Party should support and defend the idea of one vote, one person
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#53
I and all the other party members who do the leg-work, who make the calls, who talk
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#7
No less lazy than voters who get up early, travel rain or shine, stand in line to vote in primaries
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#10
Hillary won most votes without superdelegates alsoi and you did not vote for the nominee
JI7
Aug 2018
#22
Most articulate post I have seen in a long time. I hope you didin't confuse anyone with the facts.
still_one
Aug 2018
#229
If the superdelegates don't make a difference in the outcome of the election, then
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#59
The Democratic Party can end the custom of superdelegates as well as the caucuses
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#69
The candidate who won the most votes did not need the superdelegates to win the
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#178
You don't know that trump would not have been stopped so stop pretending you do.
brush
Aug 2018
#182
You are the one spreading misinformation leading to "misunderstandings and controversies" yet you
bettyellen
Aug 2018
#202
Weird spell correction. Why do YOU spread the misinformation and then use it as justification?
bettyellen
Aug 2018
#210
So you think that the CBC is wrong. Why do you think that you know more than they do
ehrnst
Aug 2018
#172
This almost sounds like you didn't vote for the Democratic candidate in the 2016 general election.
lapucelle
Aug 2018
#86
I, like all Americans, vote for the candidate that I believe is the best for my country.
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#170
You are accusing Dems of dishonesty and corruption. Wow. Something smells alright.
bettyellen
Aug 2018
#65
Did I read upthread that you did not vote for the Democratic nominee in the 2016 GE?
lapucelle
Aug 2018
#80
Neither of these two members of the CBC had any kind things to say about sanders
Gothmog
Aug 2018
#110
Thanks. I'm in California where we have primaries. Caucuses are unfair to working
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#15
Caucuses should be gone. But they have nothing to do with the popular vote.
LiberalFighter
Aug 2018
#28
Smoke filled rooms were OK when communication was poor, back in the 19th century.
Sophia4
Aug 2018
#66
And as they have never reversed the will of the primary voters, what good has it done?
mythology
Aug 2018
#133
The only way one group could be harmed is if superdelegates decide the nomination
mythology
Aug 2018
#17
Members of the CBC are more important to the party than people pushing this rule change
Gothmog
Aug 2018
#34
Again these are leaders of the party who are more important to the party than sanders supporters
Gothmog
Aug 2018
#39
All of the materials that I have seen is that it is sanders and his followers pushing this
Gothmog
Aug 2018
#236
Funny thing about privilege. People don't like it when others have it but like it when it
jalan48
Aug 2018
#41
I'm not sure how giving disproportionate power to people annointed with it is reasonable to him.
JCanete
Aug 2018
#43
What does that mean in this context? whatever a member of CBC says you are automatically on board?
JCanete
Aug 2018
#67
I'm not comforable with Bee's framing at all. She literally led up to it with talking about Carter
JCanete
Aug 2018
#74
needless to say, you didnt' address any of my points, convincing me that I should reconsider, with
JCanete
Aug 2018
#226
you refuted 0 points I made. I mean, tell yourself whatever you want to tell yourself,
JCanete
Aug 2018
#249
Okay, for whatever reasons you want to have this conversation without actually having a conversation
JCanete
Aug 2018
#252
when an OR candidate loses by a small margin it isn't making a difference, it is "failing"
JCanete
Aug 2018
#259
I, too, stand with the CBC, and not with those who seek to dilute the power of elected minorities...
Tarheel_Dem
Aug 2018
#70
Superdelegates, like caucuses, are undemocratic relics of the past. It is also extremely asinine
tritsofme
Aug 2018
#89
Elected officials also increase the influence of states that elect democrats to office
Gothmog
Aug 2018
#112
Right they should not exist. I support the Democratic party's decision in this.
Tiggeroshii
Aug 2018
#121
You were a bound delegate. Very different from what an unbound superdelegate was.
Tiggeroshii
Aug 2018
#122
You stand correct. However pledged delegates are far more democratic than superdelegates.
Tiggeroshii
Aug 2018
#142
The local party activists and officials, and Members of Congress can all have one vote like the rest
CentralMass
Aug 2018
#131