General Discussion

JHan

(10,173 posts)

93. You really need to understand that the Scandinavian countries you keep talking about..

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 06:51 PM

Aug 2018

are very capitalist. They had brief experiments with socialism. Their entire welfare model was conceptualized by Bismarck who was very anti-socialist. They had the wherewithal to start their welfare models from scratch - USA's history is different so requires a different approach and different methods to get us where we would all like to be.

I and others on this forum are tired explaining that the ACA is not at all like the national heritage foundation plan except in ONE respect, yet the misinformation persists.

Is it that you don't remember how the ACA was passed?

What is the difference between the Heritage Plan and the ACA? I want you to tell me what you think it is because it's obvious that no matter how the myths are corrected the myths persist because folks are determined to cling to talking points.

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Great essay written by a billionaire Dem [View all] FuzzyRabbit Aug 2018 OP

Really? Cary Aug 2018 #1

Did you read the article? FuzzyRabbit Aug 2018 #6

Nope. Cary Aug 2018 #15

i read what you wrote 0rganism Aug 2018 #25

I read the article. It IS the same old same old. He lists these policies: Squinch Aug 2018 #131

It's not meant for informed voters. Hortensis Aug 2018 #143

I guess not. I have lately begun to realize that many of those Squinch Aug 2018 #145

For old broken records, sure. :) Hortensis Aug 2018 #147

This is what you missed zipplewrath Aug 2018 #54

Why do you point to the same old same old and decree it as something fresh and new? Cary Aug 2018 #55

Still haven't read it huh? zipplewrath Aug 2018 #56

Same old Democrat bashing Cary Aug 2018 #91

It isn't "Democrat bashing" SkyDancer Aug 2018 #126

Which of the policies that he calls "radical left" are not already part of the Democratic platform? Squinch Aug 2018 #133

Correct: radicalism is an end in itself for radicals Cary Aug 2018 #141

I am embarrassed to say that I never understood that before. Squinch Aug 2018 #142

I helped you to think this through? Cary Aug 2018 #151

Yes you did! Thank you! Squinch Aug 2018 #153

Who is to say that the author is correct? He's expressing his opinion on others' opinions. George II Aug 2018 #71

Yup zipplewrath Aug 2018 #74

I'm wondering if you've read it thoroughly. LanternWaste Aug 2018 #17

It's actually worth reading the article linked... TygrBright Aug 2018 #26

Seems like old whine in new bottles to me Cary Aug 2018 #35

bottom line: politicians' "center" isn't voters' center yurbud Aug 2018 #38

You are radically wrong. Read the damn article and try to rein in your cognitive dissonance. hedda_foil Aug 2018 #42

Of course I am "radically wrong." Cary Aug 2018 #52

The author puts "radical" in quotes. Lunabell Aug 2018 #77

Please Cary Aug 2018 #92

There is "radical left" that has any sort of political pull SkyDancer Aug 2018 #125

K & R for the article and Nick Hanauer. appalachiablue Aug 2018 #2

WTF? To "reclaim the political center" they have to move toward the "radical left"? Are you/he... George II Aug 2018 #3

Why dont these rich democrats offer any person to be taken care of financially Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #9

Both parties have gradually shifted right over the decades, Qutzupalotl Aug 2018 #13

The Democratic party has not moved to the right.. JHan Aug 2018 #18

There was a shift to the right after 9/11 Qutzupalotl Aug 2018 #19

If your reference point is that deception, it still doesn't hold. JHan Aug 2018 #30

You're ignoring those who were knowingly complicit Qutzupalotl Aug 2018 #31

That single incident is your proof of a massive turn to the right? JHan Aug 2018 #32

I never said our party had a massive shift to the right. Qutzupalotl Aug 2018 #33

Okay, I shouldn't have said "massive", i stand corrected.. but... JHan Aug 2018 #34

Obama talked about it zipplewrath Aug 2018 #53

You can argue that in America, legislation isn't as leftward as other countries. JHan Aug 2018 #68

Desegregation of the party zipplewrath Aug 2018 #69

Again the idealization has to stop. JHan Aug 2018 #70

Well, now you're discussing how zipplewrath Aug 2018 #73

It was FDR who established free trade policy. JHan Aug 2018 #75

I would be glad to move some to the right to eliminate the Nazi Cary Aug 2018 #96

I think Hanauer is right: moved right on econ. EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2018 #128

If you read my follow up replies on the New Deal you'd realise that it wasn't that great.. JHan Aug 2018 #130

It really wasn't the last decade EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2018 #159

I agree that Rubin and Summers were wrong on somethings.. JHan Aug 2018 #160

Yes. EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2018 #162

Yup... JHan Aug 2018 #163

Corporate media has done a helluva job.. disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #20

It's certainly not the left of the more socialist European nations. And there are plenty of examples JCanete Aug 2018 #22

This is the United States of America, not any European nations. George II Aug 2018 #23

and the rest of my point is that we have moved right as a matter of "pragmatism." Your JCanete Aug 2018 #24

You really need to understand that the Scandinavian countries you keep talking about.. JHan Aug 2018 #93

I do, it was passed by Democrats only. We couldn't have passed a public option by JCanete Aug 2018 #94

It wasn't just that... we needed Independents to get it passed in the Senate. JHan Aug 2018 #95

Well it doesn't exactly instill confidence in me that the JCanete Aug 2018 #98

Should have, would have , could have... Lieberman won't be the first.. JHan Aug 2018 #100

No, its not a stretch to assume how he would have always voted, and he was shitty JCanete Aug 2018 #101

Rigid? JHan Aug 2018 #105

Tell you what, since it just takes us away from the issues at hand and becomes about semantics, JCanete Aug 2018 #111

It isn't semantics. JHan Aug 2018 #129

It is semantics. If we both agree on a definition, that becomes the definition in terms of conveying JCanete Aug 2018 #138

I know some people take up shifting goalposts as a hobby.. JHan Aug 2018 #139

I don't mind being wrong about things. I just disagree with you here. But as I stated, I ultimately JCanete Aug 2018 #140

It's not even left of the current Democratic platform. EVERY policy he uses as an Squinch Aug 2018 #134

two centers: "ideological center" and "majoritarian center" 0rganism Aug 2018 #27

more like money center vs. majoritarian center yurbud Aug 2018 #60

read the article. yurbud Aug 2018 #39

Excellent! Thanks for posting. mountain grammy Aug 2018 #4

This should be required reading for all Democrats wcast Aug 2018 #5

Worth reading the whole thing at the link. The OP's excerpt doesn't do it justice. nt Hekate Aug 2018 #7

More bashing democrats, I see. Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #8

Why not read the article before BBG Aug 2018 #11

I read the article. He lists a number of policies that he says are illustrative of a "radical left" Squinch Aug 2018 #135

Best thing I've read in a long time. Thanks for posting. Snotcicles Aug 2018 #10

It is more constructive criticism than bashing, IMNSHO... Wounded Bear Aug 2018 #12

Worth the read. KentuckyWoman Aug 2018 #14

Typical out of touch billionaire. kcr Aug 2018 #16

why should someone have to follow politics for a while to know Dems support a $15 minimum wage? 0rganism Aug 2018 #29

How do you miss the point he's a billionaire venture capitalist? kcr Aug 2018 #36

Obama said roughly the same thing about hanging out with rich people yurbud Aug 2018 #40

Obama started bashing Dems with ridiculous claims too? kcr Aug 2018 #50

From the AUDACITY OF HOPE: yurbud Aug 2018 #63

Yes. Obama is intelligent and thoughtful and self aware. kcr Aug 2018 #65

That was before he was president. yurbud Aug 2018 #72

What does that have to do with anything? kcr Aug 2018 #80

How has backing privatization of public schools HELPED unions? yurbud Aug 2018 #79

Yeah. I don't like Obama's stance on private charter schools one bit. kcr Aug 2018 #81

His basic premise is exactly right and poll data has proven it. yurbud Aug 2018 #82

Don't think so kcr Aug 2018 #83

If you read the article without knowing his background, would you still dislike it? yurbud Aug 2018 #164

Read the damn article. He says nothing of the sort. hedda_foil Aug 2018 #43

I actually quoted him, but ok n/t kcr Aug 2018 #49

K&R.. disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #21

Excellent and spot on article. KPN Aug 2018 #28

Except that every policy he lists as part of the "radical left" agenda we should adopt is Squinch Aug 2018 #136

I wonder why no liberal who thinks this guy is so great kcr Aug 2018 #37

I'd like to hear Democrats be honest about why they don't pursue those policies yurbud Aug 2018 #41

They're right in the platform. kcr Aug 2018 #47

Is that what they work on day in & day out & pull out all the stops for? yurbud Aug 2018 #61

They certainly don't spend day in and day out kcr Aug 2018 #67

Read the damn article! You are so far off base about where he's coming from you can't see the ball. hedda_foil Aug 2018 #44

Oh? Then why don't point out exactly why I'm so far off base? kcr Aug 2018 #48

He does in an earlier piece. MarvinGardens Aug 2018 #57

Not really. All he does is point out his gravy train isn't going to last. (edit) kcr Aug 2018 #59

From Pitchforks: MarvinGardens Aug 2018 #62

See my edit n/t kcr Aug 2018 #64

Medicare for All is not remotely sufficient. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #45

Social Justice and Economic Justice go hand in hand. You have to prioritize both. You can't JCanete Aug 2018 #66

It's not about ignoring. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #76

That isn't accurate. The lack of ecnonomic justice absolutely reinforces social injustice. JCanete Aug 2018 #78

That is backwards kcr Aug 2018 #84

wow, I made an argument. You just said "naha!!" Where was I wrong? Refute something. JCanete Aug 2018 #85

Oh come on. Like you haven't had that discussion a million times already kcr Aug 2018 #86

I have yet to see anybody actually take an argument I've made on this to task. if you can JCanete Aug 2018 #87

You must not come to DU much kcr Aug 2018 #88

so you aren't going to do it. I'll just take you at your word that you have the ammunition to JCanete Aug 2018 #89

People here are not Sisyphus, don't have time to waste on refuting wrong arguments over betsuni Aug 2018 #120

Oh hi betsuni, you're input is so very helpful. Forgive me if I don't reply to future posts JCanete Aug 2018 #121

"your" input. betsuni Aug 2018 #122

I drink your tears!!!!......dammit you pulled me back in... JCanete Aug 2018 #124

as to primary season, I was involved in some of those converations. Feel free to pull JCanete Aug 2018 #90

It is accurate. The very concept of race and male superiority had to be invented... Garrett78 Aug 2018 #97

Okay, i can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me here. You just made my argument JCanete Aug 2018 #99

I simply reiterated the same point I made in post #76, which you said was inaccurate. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #102

No you aren't. Really. There you said that social injustice perpetuates economic injustice, JCanete Aug 2018 #103

I made the exact same argument in post #97 that I made in post #76. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #104

First of all that isn't my postulation and I'm not sure who's postulation it is. JCanete Aug 2018 #107

Sanders, for example, has been very dismissive of the role racism played in Trump's rise. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #109

Again, most who vote for Republicans... Garrett78 Aug 2018 #106

But that's my point. Why are we continuing to separate these issues if we know JCanete Aug 2018 #108

Whereas you think the solution is in having an even stronger economic message... Garrett78 Aug 2018 #110

an economic message that is real and present in its benefits and gives the people JCanete Aug 2018 #112

As I've said... Garrett78 Aug 2018 #113

But again, you want to make race front and center without relaying to these white JCanete Aug 2018 #114

I'm not looking to appeal to Republicans. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #115

All of which get used by the powers that be, and we continue to let it happen because we JCanete Aug 2018 #116

Again, you think a different message will win them over. I don't. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #117

Fair enough and I feel that too. Its not that I'm positive by the way. I just don't JCanete Aug 2018 #118

Let me amend that last post slightly: Garrett78 Aug 2018 #119

Okay, I apologize in advance for keeping this thread going. I know these can drag and at some point JCanete Aug 2018 #123

Great article and worth reading bluecollar2 Aug 2018 #46

too funny, america will never move to the radical "left" beachbum bob Aug 2018 #51

I think you misplaced your scare quotes shanny Aug 2018 #154

FYI - by the author of "The Pitchforks Are Coming..." MarvinGardens Aug 2018 #58

Makes sense since the center has moved right as the GOP has veered closer to crazy town. Vinca Aug 2018 #127

Which of the policies the author calls "radical left" have not already been adopted by the Squinch Aug 2018 #137

A most excellent analysis! Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #132

Except for the fact that all the policies he identifies as defining Squinch Aug 2018 #144

Was this on the platform? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #146

Why would that be on the platform? lapucelle Aug 2018 #148

And the National Mining Association's donations to Bernie Sanders. Squinch Aug 2018 #152

Why would you want to prohibit some guy who runs a forklift for Exxon from contributing Squinch Aug 2018 #149

Employers Pacs have nothing to do with unions or labor Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #150

According to Open Secrets explanation lapucelle Aug 2018 #155

Don't be silly, lapucelle! We are so rich that we can afford to turn away worker and union money! Squinch Aug 2018 #156

The real problem is that some people reach unfounded conclusions lapucelle Aug 2018 #157

Yep. If we look at anyone's donations we can find something to twist. Squinch Aug 2018 #158

He's ignoring the elephant in the room Mosby Aug 2018 #161