General Discussion

Eliot Rosewater

(34,282 posts)

93. THis is so simple it is embarrassing.

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 01:16 PM

Aug 2018

Impossible for ANY movement in this arena in the next 3 years, agreed?

You agree that EVEN IF we take back the house and senate, that unless we have SUPER MAJORITIES and the WH, NONE of this can happen, as in single payer, right?

Now, would I like something I have advocated for my entire life? Of course, but I also cant have TESLA model 2018 x p100d yet either so I wont spend too much time thinking about it.

What I will think about is there is a Nazi, Fascist, Traitor criminal in the WH and controlling the GOP and our entire country. They are going to kill a bunch of us eventually if we dont do something and they WILL destroy the environment and kill EVERYBODY as well if something isnt done.

If our goals are the same, why are you going about it in such a backwards way?

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Democratic Socialism Derangement Syndrome? [View all] guillaumeb Aug 2018 OP

They should be saying PROGRESSIVE CAPITALISM and not "Socialism." LBM20 Aug 2018 #1

Is there a progressive capitalism? guillaumeb Aug 2018 #2

We are a free market capitalist society, period. Not gonna change. Progressive Capitalism means a LBM20 Aug 2018 #17

simply using federal money (taxes ) in a better way. demigoddess Aug 2018 #42

I stand by my previous statement. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #54

We are whatever we want to be, period. icaria Aug 2018 #66

Please look up the Nordic Model , they are social welfare states yes... JHan Aug 2018 #69

Issues and solutions aren't the problem, Icaria. Hortensis Aug 2018 #73

Wow, that sounds SO familiar. Where have I heard that before? Let me think... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #89

You're showing a lot of wisdom there or, as they say on the Greek island of Icaria, σοφία George II Aug 2018 #91

Now that you mention it, and no, it is not your imagination. Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #92

I agree heaven05 Aug 2018 #113

Well, it's a relief to no longer be on ignore. ehrnst Aug 2018 #96

won't work heaven05 Aug 2018 #112

What would you call Elizabeth Warren? dansolo Aug 2018 #20

I did not say eliminated, I said regulated. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #57

You denounced capitalism and posted a link to an article highlighting socialists dansolo Aug 2018 #74

I described US predatory capitalism. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #102

That's why we have to have a regulated capitalism. Adrahil Aug 2018 #31

Except they are NOT capitalists SkyDancer Aug 2018 #45

Who isn't? (n/t) OilemFirchen Aug 2018 #49

The Nordic model (also called Nordic capitalism or Nordic social democracy) ehrnst Aug 2018 #97

Doesn't matter gyroscope Aug 2018 #72

The words socialism and capitalism both have negative connotations, depending on one's perspective. brush Aug 2018 #88

the ideology heaven05 Aug 2018 #3

The programs that you named are all features of a social democracy. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #5

Let me be more specific heaven05 Aug 2018 #15

You seem very upset. Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #47

no heaven05 Aug 2018 #85

The Democratic Party is not a monolith. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #53

with one minor faction heaven05 Aug 2018 #86

Social Democracy is different from Democratic Socialism... SidDithers Aug 2018 #23

It's like a gunner argument. Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #48

See, I think a lot of this "hysteria" is manufactured largely in part kcr Aug 2018 #4

And the Congressional Black Caucus proposes excellent alternative budgets guillaumeb Aug 2018 #6

Our media is a big part of the problem, for sure. kcr Aug 2018 #24

That was a good read Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #7

You are welcome. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #11

The right will cry socialism regardless. David__77 Aug 2018 #8

Determining the proper mix is key. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #12

Honestly I think the terms socialism and capitalism may be fairly useless. David__77 Aug 2018 #38

I agree with both of your excellent points. eom guillaumeb Aug 2018 #55

this too is making me tear my hair out. librechik Aug 2018 #9

An excellent response. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #13

You're gonna lament the lack of history and civics education in THIS thread? OilemFirchen Aug 2018 #19

We continue to let them get away with calling our system capitalism, but it's not. CrispyQ Aug 2018 #10

An excellent observation. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #14

And we are also not "socialist." We are really capitalist free market system with some rules and LBM20 Aug 2018 #18

Not gonna click on commondreams, so this may not be pertinent. OilemFirchen Aug 2018 #16

This far, I think two congressional Democratic primary winners are DSA members. David__77 Aug 2018 #37

commondreams. LOL...nt SidDithers Aug 2018 #21

Laughable is rejecting without reading. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #56

I read it too and laughed. JHan Aug 2018 #71

Eugene Debs ideology? No heaven05 Aug 2018 #22

Every time someone puts up clickbait nonsense about how divided Democrats are, some numbskull Squinch Aug 2018 #25

That covers it. nt NCTraveler Aug 2018 #90

guillaumbeb, thank you saidsimplesimon Aug 2018 #26

Thank you, guillaumeb Aug 2018 #58

Still, wherever an individual is on the Democratic or moderate spectrum, or the whole political empedocles Aug 2018 #27

lol Debs ! stonecutter357 Aug 2018 #28

It's a fad Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #29

Did Common Dreams endorse Hillary over Trump? Shumi Aug 2018 #30

Welcome to DU. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #59

I'll take that as a "no" Shumi Aug 2018 #87

Socialism has been tried in full Progressive dog Aug 2018 #32

Yes, you can only distribute what's produced. David__77 Aug 2018 #36

According to Republicans, Obama was also a socialist though ck4829 Aug 2018 #52

That is true Progressive dog Aug 2018 #118

K & R and thank you. mountain grammy Aug 2018 #33

Amen. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #60

"Revolutionaries" desperate need to overestimate their importance. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #34

+1000. They're sincere oppositionists to the rest of the party Hortensis Aug 2018 #82

First, as has been stated, Democratic Socialism's messaging sucks ismnotwasm Aug 2018 #35

'Socialist', however poor it is for Dem election messaging, empedocles Aug 2018 #40

Very true ismnotwasm Aug 2018 #41

The GOP is excellent at framing and messaging. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #61

They ARE unreachable ismnotwasm Aug 2018 #79

We would pay more in taxes. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #103

What I don't apprecate... yallerdawg Aug 2018 #39

Is it so hard to acknowledge that there are two legitimate arguments meadowlander Aug 2018 #43

When do they ever talk about socialism? ucrdem Aug 2018 #44

The US is a 2 party system by design. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #63

And Bernie makes 3 ucrdem Aug 2018 #67

++++ heaven05 Aug 2018 #117

Every Single Country in the World is Some Mixture of Capitalism and Socialism. dlk Aug 2018 #46

K&R ck4829 Aug 2018 #50

I grew up in the 50s. I'm a boomer. vlyons Aug 2018 #51

History is written by the winners. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #62

Good description of boomers' indoctrination icaria Aug 2018 #65

+1 ck4829 Aug 2018 #75

That's an fascinating personal history. lapucelle Aug 2018 #94

Did anyone ever stop to think that the Democratic Party is the way it is because.... George II Aug 2018 #95

What do you mean when you say "Third Way?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #98

why does this heaven05 Aug 2018 #114

Are they Socialists first or Democrats first? haele Aug 2018 #64

The two aren't mutually exclusive. meadowlander Aug 2018 #70

Capitalism makes $$ poetshepherd Aug 2018 #68

Welcome to DU. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #104

The Nordic model has also be referred to as "Social Capitalism" CentralMass Aug 2018 #76

Kicking... CanSocDem Aug 2018 #77

Aw. NurseJackie Aug 2018 #78

How insightful. eom guillaumeb Aug 2018 #105

... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #111

Millennials have NOT "grown disillusioned with capitalism"... George II Aug 2018 #80

OK ck4829 Aug 2018 #83

Isn't YouGov the survey that always pointed you toward one candidate you were most aligned with bettyellen Aug 2018 #109

YouGov polls can tend to "direct" a respondent to the response they want to hear. Mostly.... George II Aug 2018 #110

Capitalism is great at CREATING wealth. It's absolutely shit-horrible in DISTRIBUTING that wealth. HughBeaumont Aug 2018 #81

Wealth might have something to do with it. CentralMass Aug 2018 #84

Well said, and I agree. eom guillaumeb Aug 2018 #106

No Kidding! CanSocDem Aug 2018 #116

THis is so simple it is embarrassing. Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #93

'something I have advocated for my entire life' melman Aug 2018 #100

Always, every single time I talk about it. Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #101

Medicare for all enjoys strong support. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #107

And I think that there are certain obstacles to implementing the kind of government ehrnst Aug 2018 #99

Framing is essential. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #108

Framing is very difficult to keep control of - as we saw in the last election ehrnst Aug 2018 #115

Excellent observations, guillaumeb Aug 2018 #119