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yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
22. You can read about the case, you know.
Mon Aug 20, 2018, 06:00 PM
Aug 2018
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/19/17752532/paul-manafort-jury-decision-judge-ellis

Laura Appleman

First, I would note that two days of deliberations isn’t really that long. I think that the American public has an unrealistic expectation, from all the depictions of criminal justice we get in the media, particularly television and movies, that every criminal adjudication, no matter how complex, can be decided in a short period of time. With something like the Manafort trial, which involves 18 counts related to tax fraud, bank fraud, money laundering, failure to register as a foreign agent, and obstruction of justice, it is likely taking the jury some time just to sort through the counts alone — 18 charges are a lot to bring to trial, and the jury must decide guilt or innocence on all 18.

In addition, the charges against Manafort are extremely complex; fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice all are complicated issues, even for experts. The jury must consider paper trails, international financial transactions, and reams of documents — this is not an open-and-shut case. Moreover, the jury pool is not comprised of experts in international finance, so it makes sense that the deliberations are a slow, painstaking process.

Seth Abramson

Because this is a “paper case” with a number of charges, complicated financial records, and a lay jury not selected for its understanding of international financial transactions, we would expect a medium-length to long deliberation process — at least a couple days — simply for the jurors to work through all the evidence and discuss each charge separately.

Quick verdicts are not generally associated with lengthy, document-heavy white-collar prosecutions. And if any or all of the jurors have a sense of the public interest in this case, they are likely to be even more careful and deliberative in their review of the evidence than usual.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If the jury was moving toward a deadlock, madaboutharry Aug 2018 #1
Or Putin got to somebody's family. And if he didnt do it THIS time, he will do it on Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #19
I agree! We don't know what the hell is going on at these jurors' homes KCDebbie Aug 2018 #69
This is true. Tucker08087 Aug 2018 #53
I sure hope so. And you are probably right fallout87 Aug 2018 #68
This case has a) a lot more documents and b) more individual charges RockRaven Aug 2018 #2
Assumption is the mother of all (foul)ups. Your assumption is false. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2018 #3
It's probably just because there are SO MANY charges to discuss and go over donkeypoofed Aug 2018 #4
The judge didn't allow a lot of evidentiary documentation in the courtroom. yallerdawg Aug 2018 #5
No he didn't. former9thward Aug 2018 #14
You can read about the case, you know. yallerdawg Aug 2018 #22
So? former9thward Aug 2018 #28
The judge admitted evidence that was not reviewed in front of the jury. yallerdawg Aug 2018 #38
This iamateacher Aug 2018 #56
yellerdawg is right... Relatively little of the admitted documents were "published' (i.e., discussed hlthe2b Aug 2018 #45
the attorney guest on Rachel just now reiterated how the failure to publish the spooky3 Aug 2018 #50
Exactly... hlthe2b Aug 2018 #51
So you're taking the "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV" defense, eh? LanternWaste Aug 2018 #80
They WERE entered into evidence but the judge said the jury could see some during deliberations. pnwmom Aug 2018 #24
And, the jury WAS given a pile of documents and was told "no" spooky3 Aug 2018 #32
Good for them if they are taking their time Raven123 Aug 2018 #37
agree nt spooky3 Aug 2018 #40
18 charges with a crazy # of documents. sarcasmo Aug 2018 #6
17 charges and maybe 20 hours of deliberation. That's about 70 minutes per charge. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2018 #7
No, your totally wrong Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #8
The judge should have made sure every item of evidence was explained sarah FAILIN Aug 2018 #9
No, he should not have. former9thward Aug 2018 #16
So just let the jury wander about then? sarah FAILIN Aug 2018 #21
Yes. That is court procedure anywhere. former9thward Aug 2018 #25
It is NOT courtroom procedure in most places to allow items to be put into evidence pnwmom Aug 2018 #41
I would match my courtroom experience against yours any day. former9thward Aug 2018 #61
I would match my reading of the reports about this case against yours. pnwmom Aug 2018 #66
They asked about reasonable doubt and he said to look at the instructions Renew Deal Aug 2018 #26
What I said is factual. sarah FAILIN Aug 2018 #36
You're right Renew Deal Aug 2018 #78
No biggie sarah FAILIN Aug 2018 #79
That is just ONE of the things they asked about. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #42
Not true. He allowed some items to be entered into evidence but not shown to the jury, pnwmom Aug 2018 #29
You like to comment on my posts no matter what the subject. former9thward Aug 2018 #31
If I see someone say something that isn't factually true, I might comment. pnwmom Aug 2018 #48
If it's stipulated as relavant by the Prosecution and Defence... AncientGeezer Aug 2018 #47
Oh bullshit - not even comparable jberryhill Aug 2018 #10
Not getting concerned until after tomorrow. Sneederbunk Aug 2018 #11
This case is less complicated? Are you kidding me? White collar financial crimes are almost always octoberlib Aug 2018 #12
That's was my thought as well. BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #44
That's what happens when jurors judge graft and bribery adn tax evasion cases Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #13
This case is more complicated than the Zimmerman case flyingfysh Aug 2018 #15
Basically agree, except the 6 jurors in Zman case didn't understand "murder" or lesser charges. Hoyt Aug 2018 #57
Fellow American citizens are... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #17
Manafort faces 18 counts in the VA trial... Equally important, the judge, in trying to expedite hlthe2b Aug 2018 #18
If there was a problem, jurors would be asking more questions of the judge wishstar Aug 2018 #20
The Zimmerman case didn't involve almost 400 financial documents, pnwmom Aug 2018 #23
A member of the cult is sitting on the jury? kentuck Aug 2018 #27
This is nothing like the Zimmerman case. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #30
Pour vous: sprinkleeninow Aug 2018 #71
Completely different kind of case. elleng Aug 2018 #33
Acquittal would be in already aeromanKC Aug 2018 #34
What does this have in common with a murder trial? EllieBC Aug 2018 #35
This case is more complicated than the Zimmerman. Lots of charges and documents. honest.abe Aug 2018 #39
Acquittals often happen quickly dawg day Aug 2018 #43
The jurors were reported to be sitting in a tight DeminPennswoods Aug 2018 #46
I love your powers of deduction and hope you are right. Doodley Aug 2018 #63
Can't take credit DeminPennswoods Aug 2018 #67
After witnessing your honesty and modesty, I think even more highly of you. Doodley Aug 2018 #70
😙 sprinkleeninow Aug 2018 #72
Thanks DeminPennswoods Aug 2018 #75
This case is vastly more complicated than the Zimmerman case dsc Aug 2018 #49
Basically agree, although Zman jury did manage to screw up a much "simpler" case. Hoyt Aug 2018 #59
A key indicator is that the jury bonded together early. Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2018 #52
What's off is your understanding of this case and the number of charges. n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #54
I agree Catherine Vincent Aug 2018 #55
That would be a devastating blow to the future of America. Doodley Aug 2018 #64
they gonna let him skate I bet Puzzledtraveller Aug 2018 #58
Apples and oranges comparison Jarqui Aug 2018 #60
Smart Jury bpj62 Aug 2018 #62
Good example of what the jurors are dealing with DeminPennswoods Aug 2018 #76
There is a heck of a lot more documentary evidence... Trueblue Texan Aug 2018 #65
Manafort will be pardoned in Months Bo Aug 2018 #73
I was on a jury, the trial lasted about 4 days Raine Aug 2018 #74
you clearly don't understand trials with multi counts AND financial crimes beachbum bob Aug 2018 #77
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