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Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 04:21 AM Aug 2012

The H1B issue: Yes, American workers, YOU DO QUALIFY FOR THAT JOB. [View all]

This is a direct response to this thread that dishonestly and unfairly attacks American workers. This is an exercise of my God-given right to defend American workers.

Firstly, I will kick this off with that which would usually be put off to the end as a conclusion: the only thing that disqualifies Americans for jobs that H1B visa holders are getting, is Americans won't work for peanuts.

Second of all, I'm going to address the core half-truth that was used to support the argument that "No, you don't qualify for that job":

According to the US Census bureau, in 2009, out of the entire population of the United States - the educational levels are as follows:

17.6% of the population holds a bachelors degree.
7.2% holds a masters degree.
1.9% hold a professional degree.
1.2% hold a doctorate degree.


To this, I present a counter point: that counter point being reality.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/mee-the-brainiac-homeless-man-with-a-ph-d-that-cant-find-a-job/
Times are tough. Perhaps the chilling economic realities can be best encapsulated by the tragic story of Dr. Maurice Johnson. Despite holding a doctorate in plasma physics from Dartmouth College and a masters in electrical engineering and acoustics from Purdue University, Johnson, 55, claims that he is homeless and without a job.


Now we must get to the other central argument:
It is illegal to pay H1B Visa workers wages that are lower than the prevailing wage.

Reality: It is also illegal to steal cars, but 1 million are stolen every year. Likewise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/us/whistle-blower-claiming-visa-fraud-keeps-his-job-but-not-his-work.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

It has been 17 months since Jack B. Palmer first made a quiet complaint through internal channels at Infosys, the giant Indian outsourcing company he works for, saying he suspected some managers were committing visa fraud. Since then, Mr. Palmer says, he has been harassed by superiors and co-workers, sidelined with no work assignment, shut out of the company’s computers, denied bonuses and hounded by death threats.


http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/11-arrested-in-h1b-visa-fraud-upto-20-years-in-prison/

DES MOINES, Iowa – U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents arrested 11 individuals in six states on Wednesday as part of an investigation into suspected visa and mail fraud. Matthew G. Whitaker, U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Iowa, announced the operation, which was carried out by federal, state and local law enforcement agencies in Iowa, California, Massachusetts, Texas, Pennsylvania, Kentucky and New Jersey.

Hint: these workers weren't paid a prevailing wage.

BUT WAIT!!!! There's more! This goes way beyond just H1B's! Take a look at what's happening with J1 visa holders:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/us/18immig.html?pagewanted=all

PALMYRA, Pa. — Hundreds of foreign students, waving their fists and shouting defiantly in many languages, walked off their jobs on Wednesday at a plant here that packs Hershey’s chocolates, saying a summer program that was supposed to be a cultural exchange had instead turned them into underpaid labor.


The point? H1B visa holders are being imported as cheap labor, while Americans holding DOCTORATES in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related fields are going without jobs.


Next, I will point out this:

Relative to any of the most common benchmarks – the cost of living, the wages of the average worker, or average productivity levels – the current federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour is well below its historical value. These usual reference points, however, understate the true erosion in the minimum wage in recent decades because the average low-wage worker today is both older and much better educated than the average low-wage worker was in the past.


[img][/img]

And let us also examine this, the shortage of jobs for engineers. The going pro-free trade argument of the day is that America needs more H1B workers because we don't have enough engineers. Even a cursory examination of the situation in America shows that this is bullshit.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/06/06/the-death-of-us-engineering/

The alleged "shortage" of US engineering graduates is inconsistent with reports from Duke University that 30 to 40 percent of students in its master’s of engineering management program accept jobs outside the profession. About one-third of engineering graduates from MIT go into careers outside their field. Job outsourcing and work visas for foreign engineers are reducing career opportunities for American engineering graduates and, also, reducing salary scales.


Read that last part, DUers. REDUCING SALARY SCALES.

If we need more engineers then why are engineering salaries going down? Who ever heard of a wage stagnation in an industry where workers are in short supply?

How many unemployed engineers do we have?

http://www.techjournal.org/2012/02/many-engineers-remain-unemployed-despite-reported-tech-skills-shortages/

For a complete review of the American Community Survey, including a table containing detailed employment figures for specific engineering degrees, visit the Center for Immigration Studies website at: http://cis.org/obama-and-engineers

The 2010 American Community Survey shows:

There are 101,000 U.S.-born individuals with engineering degrees who are unemployed.
There are an additional 244,000 U.S.-born individuals under age 65 who have a degree in engineering but who are not in the labor market. This means they are not working nor are they looking for work, and are therefore not counted as unemployed.
In addition to those unemployed and out of the labor force, there are an additional 1.47 million U.S.-born individuals who report they have an engineering degree and have a job, but do not work as engineers.
President Obama specifically used the words “highly skilled.” In 2010, there were 25,000 unemployed U.S.-born individuals with engineering degrees who have a Master’s or Ph.D. and another 68,000 with advanced degrees not in the labor force. There were also 489,000 U.S.-born individuals with graduate degrees who were working, but not as engineers.


Yes, folks, there are thousands of US born highly qualified engineers who do not have jobs. Master's and PhD degree holders, folks.

"No, you don't qualify for that job"?
[img][/img]

Unless someone wants to argue that Americans with Master's or PhD degrees in engineering are idiots.


Now why, you must ask yourself, would corporations be pushing these lies? Profit, of course. Cheaper labor means more profits. The path to cheaper labor is to bring in H1B's. How bad is this situation? Well, how's this for bad?

&feature=player_embedded


Corporations are whining and crying about the low H1B visa limits - something like under 80,000 per year. Perhaps they should be hiring those 1.47 million American workers who have engineering degrees but aren't working as engineers?

YES, AMERICAN WORKERS, YOU ARE QUALIFIED FOR THAT JOB!

Now get out and use force to make your voice heard. VOTE. Kill the H1B visa program. Kill it dead.
135 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
K&R baldguy Aug 2012 #1
Du rec. Nt xchrom Aug 2012 #2
The video at the end is the end all to the H1 argument, these companies are taught NOT TO HIRE uponit7771 Aug 2012 #3
I was a hiring manager Indian Invasion Oct 2012 #134
Are you saying that you paid Americans a different salary for the same job Ms. Toad Oct 2012 #135
I am indian loansstore Aug 2012 #4
I'd ask where you're posting from if you didn't get a visa, but... JHB Aug 2012 #5
There could be a number of factors for this including the Obama admin catching on to H1B visa issues uponit7771 Aug 2012 #17
It has, and always will be about procuring cheap labor, laws are meant to be sidelined by the new mother earth Aug 2012 #6
There is NO shortage of qualified americans, only a corporate desire to pay less than market rates on point Aug 2012 #7
Reminds me of a person who murdered his parents and ... twins.fan Aug 2012 #42
Corporations are bringing in cheap, cheap labor because the only organization fasttense Aug 2012 #8
"Most of those H1B laborers got their education tuition free." abelenkpe Aug 2012 #26
Nurses were pointing this out..... AnneD Aug 2012 #9
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2012 #18
Nice work, Zalatix. K&R. Brickbat Aug 2012 #10
Nicely done ChromeFoundry Aug 2012 #11
Work Visa Programs Like H-1B Target Experienced Americans Dr Gene Nelson Aug 2012 #12
Welcome to DU Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #29
good post eShirl Aug 2012 #108
Excellent post. 99Forever Aug 2012 #13
H1Bs have to be paid the Prevailing Wage treestar Aug 2012 #14
And if you put a tooth under your pillow, you'll get a shiny nickel!! jeff47 Aug 2012 #20
*crickets* Zalatix Aug 2012 #23
Prevailing wage is the one published by the DOL and freely available online WilmywoodNCparalegal Aug 2012 #25
Here's the key parts jeff47 Aug 2012 #43
You've already been shown proof in the OP that you are flat-out wrong. Zalatix Aug 2012 #22
Funny abelenkpe Aug 2012 #27
Except that's not what's happening. Did you read the links in the OP and in the thread, btw? sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #36
Post #34 is further proof that H1Bs are underpaid. Do you have any counter-evidence? Zalatix Aug 2012 #54
So funny, it's sad. SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #59
jsut like gkr Sep 2012 #131
Hey, where'd ya go? Union Scribe Aug 2012 #90
HA! eShirl Aug 2012 #109
K & R AzDar Aug 2012 #15
H1B or how to filp a page in a manual without the caller hearing DainBramaged Aug 2012 #16
I work in an IT field OnionPatch Aug 2012 #19
+1 sarcasmo Aug 2012 #31
you are right on the money gkr Sep 2012 #132
Well Said and Agreed OhioChick Aug 2012 #21
Lots of inaccuracies about H-1Bs and a general misunderstanding of how the legal immigration process WilmywoodNCparalegal Aug 2012 #24
Thanks for an informed post. But I'm not sure it disproves the claims that sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #38
Could you at least be consistent when trying to justify destroying my profession? jeff47 Aug 2012 #45
same here Panasonic Aug 2012 #49
you are missing out gkr Sep 2012 #133
Yes, lots of inaccuracies and many of them coming from you. n/t Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #47
Well done! Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #28
I would bet that master's or phd degrees in engineering are not needed for many of those "jobs". L0oniX Aug 2012 #30
Take a look SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #60
Great post Zalatix twins.fan Aug 2012 #32
Welcome to DU twins.fan sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #37
Dice has been at the veyr center of this scam since its inception. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #48
Thanks for the info, I had never heard of it. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #51
Strictly IT, or at least used to be. And you're always welcome. n/t Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #52
Wow! And Welcome to DU! Zalatix Aug 2012 #53
Cannot issue private message twins.fan Aug 2012 #55
An IT labor economics lesson from Memphis for IBM antigop Aug 2012 #33
The underpayment of H-1Bs is well-established fact, not rumor, anecdote or ideology. antigop Aug 2012 #34
Are H-1B Workers Getting Bilked? twins.fan Aug 2012 #56
Relative to their home country, no bilking. Relative to US workers, yes. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2012 #61
Patni is from a country whose corruption is legendary twins.fan Aug 2012 #62
I'm speaking more of the opportunity to the specific worker jeff47 Aug 2012 #64
Bingo! rock Aug 2012 #35
kicked southmost Aug 2012 #39
K&R Don't forget the ever-popular change the job title strategy. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #40
K&R for the excellent rebuttal and bullship cleanup duty. n/t pa28 Aug 2012 #41
HB-1's also point to the nasty side of Corps Hydra Aug 2012 #44
Yes the corporations are nasty, but so are their proxies twins.fan Aug 2012 #63
Damn Straight. It's about time we started putting Americans first. American Made Aug 2012 #46
We are the only ones who can change it too! twins.fan Aug 2012 #65
The Labor Party is Dead..eom pipoman Aug 2012 #50
Lying and cheating. SouthAsian59 Aug 2012 #57
There's always at least one in every crowd SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #58
I totally agree. Thank You agent zero Aug 2012 #66
Racism masked as "Dey took er jobs!" boppers Aug 2012 #67
Enough with the anti-American worker bigotry. Those jobs belong to us. Period. Dot. Stop. Zalatix Aug 2012 #68
Ahh, ultra-nationalism. joshcryer Aug 2012 #69
What is your problem with American workers having jobs, anyway? Zalatix Aug 2012 #70
I'm pro-immigrant and therefore think that they should *be* American citizens. joshcryer Aug 2012 #72
They're being used as pools of cheap labor. You keep denying this. Why is that? Zalatix Aug 2012 #74
Where have I "denied that" they lower wages under the current system? joshcryer Aug 2012 #76
I want the American citizen Engineers who are out of work to get those jobs first. Period. Zalatix Aug 2012 #78
As I said, ultranationalism. I want whoever is experienced to get whatever... joshcryer Aug 2012 #79
And you are still trying to sell bigotry. Zalatix Aug 2012 #81
They have a right to not work as engineers, too. joshcryer Aug 2012 #82
You lie once again. The problem is not incompetency, though you'd like to accuse Americans of that. Zalatix Aug 2012 #85
It has nothing to do with dirt cheap wages, it's about education... joshcryer Aug 2012 #88
It has everything to do with cheap labor. You are still wrong in accusing Americans of incompetence. Zalatix Aug 2012 #91
Cheap labor is a side effect, not a reason for it. joshcryer Aug 2012 #92
It is not a side effect, it is the primary lure of hiring H1B's. Zalatix Aug 2012 #95
Since you've now simply begun repeating yourself... joshcryer Aug 2012 #97
And I don't take kindly to you boldly lying about American workers, either. Zalatix Aug 2012 #100
By the numbers: boppers Aug 2012 #111
By the numbers - you're still spouting baseless assertions. Zalatix Aug 2012 #112
Okay... boppers Aug 2012 #115
Still no facts, just your hateful and ultra-biased opinions. Your argument is 100% FAIL. Zalatix Aug 2012 #117
See: Dice.com boppers Aug 2012 #119
LOL you don't even know how to back up your assertions, do you? Zalatix Aug 2012 #121
Here is the problem: SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #127
People don't understand the screening tests these companies have for hiring. joshcryer Aug 2012 #89
More desperate lies about American workers. Zalatix Aug 2012 #102
You've repeatedly called me a liar without showing it. joshcryer Aug 2012 #103
I called you a liar because you FAILED to prove your claim. Zalatix Aug 2012 #105
But if you pay for college, shouldn't you get a job? boppers Aug 2012 #113
Daily Kos: My Problems with the Programmers Guild joshcryer Aug 2012 #71
Right wing talking point? 91% of Democrats are on my side, not yours. Have a nice day! Zalatix Aug 2012 #73
Insourcing is different from outsourcing. Nice straw man though. joshcryer Aug 2012 #75
We already have a GLUT of American engineers with ADVANCED DEGREES looking for work. Zalatix Aug 2012 #77
That is patently false. Unemployment for engineers it 2%. TWO PERCENT. joshcryer Aug 2012 #80
What I said is perfectly correct. And I have cites, too. Zalatix Aug 2012 #83
I guess you want Obama to "dance a jig" too? I addressed that in #82. joshcryer Aug 2012 #84
Oooh, and now you're being racist, too. "Obama dance a jig"? Where did that BS come from? Zalatix Aug 2012 #86
There's a reason that demand for engineers is high. joshcryer Aug 2012 #87
No, it has nothing to do with "failure to educate our citizens". Zero. Zip. Nada. Zalatix Aug 2012 #93
I just quoted the stat and you repeated yourself! joshcryer Aug 2012 #94
I repeated myself because your "facts" are in error. Your "evidence" is as clear as mud. Zalatix Aug 2012 #96
You're saying the Brookings Institute is lying. joshcryer Aug 2012 #98
Yup, I sure am saying their "facts" are half-truths. And they are half-truths. Zalatix Aug 2012 #101
The unemployment rate for engineers is currently 4.9% SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #129
Tech doesn't win by votes. boppers Aug 2012 #116
Tech doesn't win by your baseless assertions, either. Zalatix Aug 2012 #118
Here's a fun question I once got asked: boppers Aug 2012 #120
Nice story. Zalatix Aug 2012 #122
Brookings Institute on H1Bs: joshcryer Aug 2012 #99
No shortage of QUALIFIED American Engineers. Sorry, you're wrong again. Zalatix Aug 2012 #104
Brookings Makes No Sense Here SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #125
The DailyKos post shows why Labor is screwed ... SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #124
If companies are abusing the H1B one system then fine them. davidpdx Aug 2012 #106
Better than a $5 million fine Zalatix Aug 2012 #107
Yeah that sounds good davidpdx Aug 2012 #110
And third strike = Federal prison time. Zalatix Aug 2012 #114
davidpdx, the problem is SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #126
Steve I believe you davidpdx Aug 2012 #128
Zalatix, this thread is a monument to why labor is screwed in this country .... SteveSmithCharlotte Aug 2012 #123
I totally agree we need to talk more about the illegal immigration problem. agent zero Aug 2012 #130
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