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JCanete

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37. Why are we bickering on supporting medicare for all? That's not on him. nt

Reply to Squinch (Reply #33)

Wed Aug 22, 2018, 02:57 PM

Aug 2018

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Factcheck.org responds to accusations in a tweetstorm from Senator Sanders re: Mercatus study [View all] ehrnst Aug 2018 OP

This is the sort of nonsense that our representatives should refrain from-- dawg day Aug 2018 #1

Unfortunately he doesn't tolerate dissent or any suggestion that he is wrong/mistaken. ehrnst Aug 2018 #3

well if your agenda is to make sure he's wrong and mistaken, do better than this or Tapper's lousy JCanete Aug 2018 #17

Has Vermont adopted the magical sanders single payer plan yet? Gothmog Aug 2018 #78

spoken like someone who has medical care questionseverything Aug 2018 #236

But this plans pays for itself according to sanders Gothmog Aug 2018 #237

as i said...you have an"i got mine attitude" questionseverything Aug 2018 #240

Actually, he is mistaken about what the study concluded, as per the author, and misrepresented what ehrnst Aug 2018 #126

everyone is wrong heaven05 Aug 2018 #18

okaaay but push-back on a bullshit hit-piece is not not tolerating dissent. It is correcting the JCanete Aug 2018 #20

the OP heaven05 Aug 2018 #22

You did not make an argument supported by evidence here. What does not tolerating dissent look like? JCanete Aug 2018 #24

you're entitled heaven05 Aug 2018 #26

So true! I'm seeing it in other topics. The very mild vetting of the touted policies R B Garr Aug 2018 #25

I know it's amazing heaven05 Aug 2018 #27

Denial. And the ruthlessly anti-progressive Kochs? Hortensis Aug 2018 #64

Exactly. Who would trust a single thing a partisan R B Garr Aug 2018 #76

I think Sanders propaganda would be more accepted if he simply said... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #2

I think if he just learned to accept corrections or dissent gracefully ehrnst Aug 2018 #12

When You Tell The Truth And Never Sell Out PaulX2 Aug 2018 #31

Tell the truth? What about his tax returns? n/t dansolo Aug 2018 #35

"Bernie Goes Full...Trump? Blames Hillary For Russian Interference" emulatorloo Aug 2018 #90

Everybody is wrong but BERNIE!!!! ehrnst Aug 2018 #120

I imagine that's a big part of why... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #94

When you are caught misrepresenting something and you never admit it ehrnst Aug 2018 #117

Thank You, ehrnst! Jeeze! Cha Aug 2018 #127

The ability to learn and QUICKLY adapt to new information ecstatic Aug 2018 #139

few and checkered... thank you. NurseJackie Aug 2018 #13

Bookmarking. n/t rzemanfl Aug 2018 #4

Factcheck.org has a lot more credibility than the Senator comradebillyboy Aug 2018 #5

Certainly after his outsized response to his claims about the Mercatus study being factchecked. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #6

Some Can't Handle The Truth PaulX2 Aug 2018 #34

I think that those who got their knickers in a knot over Bernie being factchecked ehrnst Aug 2018 #96

Some Of Us Want More Than Crumbs PaulX2 Aug 2018 #105

What does that have to do with Sanders and AOC misrepresenting the conclusions of the study? ehrnst Aug 2018 #107

Got nothing? Not surprised. ehrnst Aug 2018 #161

"Too bad non billionaires have little say in legislation"? George II Aug 2018 #131

We are all gonna die Beearewhyain Aug 2018 #7

I didn't realize it back then, TexasTowelie Aug 2018 #15

Hllarious thanks for posting! emulatorloo Aug 2018 #103

We'll be hearing "truth isn't truth" a lot in the coming months. George II Aug 2018 #8

FactCheck should stick to checking facts ... GeorgeGist Aug 2018 #9

They didn't debate assumptions, they added more facts to their fact checking. George II Aug 2018 #10

what facts were those? nt JCanete Aug 2018 #29

Fact checking is what they did:They checked the facts on Sanders' claims about what the study said. ehrnst Aug 2018 #11

Well that is outright stupid. They know that Sanders is using a specific instance of the study and JCanete Aug 2018 #28

Because the BS bill has no funding provisions, lapucelle Aug 2018 #71

Facts are good things Gothmog Aug 2018 #14

So what are they saying? That was all over the place. They aren't saying Sanders assumptions are JCanete Aug 2018 #16

These similar OPs are starting to become mini echo chambers, with the same respondents. TheBlackAdder Aug 2018 #19

Everything I see is dated recently. August 2018 or thereabout. nt R B Garr Aug 2018 #21

"Starting" to become? They've been self-congratulatory mini-echo chambers for at least 2 years. stranger81 Aug 2018 #141

"Same tiny handful of extremely vociferous posters who lose their noodles whenever anyone betsuni Aug 2018 #143

Not **all** democrats are indifferent to economic inequality issues. stranger81 Aug 2018 #144

Wrong. betsuni Aug 2018 #156

Two years ago is when Sanders lost. I'm so glad that two years later we have R B Garr Aug 2018 #177

There's an old story about a wooden horse ucrdem Aug 2018 #23

+ a million ..The oldest story on the books. BUYER BEWARE Wwcd Aug 2018 #32

Bingo. And in case anyone still doesn't get it ucrdem Aug 2018 #40

"To say the study is "making the case for Medicare for All," as @SenSanders said, is misleading spin Wwcd Aug 2018 #30

What context do we need here? When Sanders says " I'd like to thank the Koch brothers of all people JCanete Aug 2018 #41

The study presents two scenarios based on BS's assumptions. lapucelle Aug 2018 #81

Both arent' equally likely, and one of the reasons for that is how much inforamtion the study does JCanete Aug 2018 #89

No one is pushing for the Conyers plan in the Senate. lapucelle Aug 2018 #98

Well where are they? I'll take what we have over what we don't. I certainly won't use JCanete Aug 2018 #102

Well, I certainly like it when a politician is honest. ehrnst Aug 2018 #110

You haven't shown a mistake. Neither has Tapper or factcheck. you just keep repeating it as JCanete Aug 2018 #118

I don't know why BS didn't model his bill on HR 676. lapucelle Aug 2018 #124

"So while the number Sanders chose really does appear in the report, he's cherry-picked lapucelle Aug 2018 #190

Whenever Democrats bicker, Sanders is always at the base of it. Squinch Aug 2018 #33

Why are we bickering on supporting medicare for all? That's not on him. nt JCanete Aug 2018 #37

Yes it is. There is no one on this thread who does not support universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #38

I don't think you are correct about that actually, from converations I've had here in the past. JCanete Aug 2018 #43

Show where anyone here has ever not supported universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #52

Strawman. You are surrounded by left liberals/progressives at DU who support healthcare as a right. emulatorloo Aug 2018 #95

No, he never embraced it. Taht's factually incorrect. Taking something out of a hostile JCanete Aug 2018 #104

He should declare victory and move on IMHO. He should focus on M4A, not twitter wars emulatorloo Aug 2018 #109

People hear a fact check and they take its word for things. YOu have to push back against wrong JCanete Aug 2018 #115

That sort of thing can make one look vindictive, rather than secure. ehrnst Aug 2018 #247

That doesn't make any sense. Its vindictive to challenge the veracity or tone of an article or JCanete Aug 2018 #251

When one lashes out angrily with misrepresentations of ehrnst Aug 2018 #254

The factchecking did that. I'm sorry. That's what it did. I never claimed that it is agreeing JCanete Aug 2018 #255

All Democrats are on the same page concerning Universal Health Care ehrnst Aug 2018 #246

"What pray tell, is her means of assuring that everybody is covered?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #248

ACA is not 100 percent coverage. There is no mechanism that could make it so. What acocunts for it JCanete Aug 2018 #250

Again, you don't seem to understand what "universal health care" means. ehrnst Aug 2018 #257

oh man....I don't have a beef with the ACA. I'm glad it passed. I'm glad it has survived. It is JCanete Aug 2018 #260

Now do you understand that the ACA is indeed the furthest along the road to UHC that we ehrnst Aug 2018 #261

That's right, I don't get why incremental change is the only way to do this. JCanete Aug 2018 #262

Ted Kennedy regrets that he didn't compromise in 1972. ehrnst Aug 2018 #264

Healthcare Is A Right PaulX2 Aug 2018 #36

There is no one here who disputes that healthcare for all Squinch Aug 2018 #39

I'm Thanking Bernie For Making It Part Of His Message PaulX2 Aug 2018 #42

I don't suppose you've heard of the PPACA? ucrdem Aug 2018 #44

Dems lost offices for running away from it. It was such a weak front we put up after we passed it, JCanete Aug 2018 #46

Oh baloney. And access to healthcare has been part of the Dem message since the 1930s at least. nt ucrdem Aug 2018 #48

It isn't a consistent message. We aren't all on the same page. We don't all want the same thing. JCanete Aug 2018 #49

.. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #112

It has been a consistent message. lapucelle Aug 2018 #129

Here are SEN. CONYER'S cosponsors for his first bill. Hortensis Aug 2018 #132

I appreciate that this has reached over 100 democratic congresspeople. Taht's something. JCanete Aug 2018 #145

Disingenuous. The Republicans blocked passage. Hortensis Aug 2018 #150

what are you talking about? We had an opportunity to pass this sort of thing when JCanete Aug 2018 #159

That's an edited version of history to fit a story Hortensis Aug 2018 #163

You just told me that Republicans killed Conyer's efforts for single payer. JCanete Aug 2018 #165

the aca left out 20 million peops and another 40 mil who cant afford touse what they have questionseverything Aug 2018 #238

It's a hint that maybe there is a better option. ehrnst Aug 2018 #151

No ehrnst, because the major difference is the actual facts brought to bear in this JCanete Aug 2018 #162

No, to say that he misrepresented the conclusions of the study is not disingenuous. ehrnst Aug 2018 #164

Welp, there you go. You've apparently read none of my posts regarding this, which JCanete Aug 2018 #166

I read your posts. ehrnst Aug 2018 #172

Looks consistent to me. betsuni Aug 2018 #133

Or...you can just listen to some of our leaders tell you themselves whether or not they JCanete Aug 2018 #146

I roast the bananas when I make banana bread. betsuni Aug 2018 #152

I predict your facts will be ignored... JHan Aug 2018 #135

JHan, what did these facts prove to you. That we really are ALL in favor of universal healthcare? JCanete Aug 2018 #147

I can't help your obsession with particular democrats JHan Aug 2018 #149

That isn't what I was doing. What was in question was whether or not we all want universal JCanete Aug 2018 #155

LOL betsuni Aug 2018 #157

ROFL...insert emogie....LMAO JCanete Aug 2018 #158

No, that is not what is in question, "whether or not we all want universal healthcare" R B Garr Aug 2018 #175

They keep on trying to attack that strawman... ehrnst Aug 2018 #205

nice. You couldn't just be having a conversation with an honest actor coming to his own conclusions JCanete Aug 2018 #206

That book came out before 2016 election. ehrnst Aug 2018 #210

Yes, it is very obvious. How anyone can say that Democrats aren't R B Garr Aug 2018 #207

Black and white, good and evil. ehrnst Aug 2018 #211

ouch such a sting....except that I'm not a Stein supporter and neither was Sanders. The JCanete Aug 2018 #219

Actually, yes, Democrats all want Universal Health Care ehrnst Aug 2018 #252

first of all, I never suggested that people were intentionally propping up the Koch study here, JCanete Aug 2018 #253

Yes, the ACA is a plan for UHC. ehrnst Aug 2018 #258

You don't have to be siding with the Koch's or their agenda to still privilege their talking point JCanete Aug 2018 #259

Dems Didn't Defend Doing The Right Thing PaulX2 Aug 2018 #68

We have Hillary to thank for that from 25 years ago. She put R B Garr Aug 2018 #45

We do have her to thank for that. Too bad the lesson she learned from it is that those chances are JCanete Aug 2018 #47

Do you have a link to where Hillary Clinton said it was political suicide R B Garr Aug 2018 #50

I understand Clinton's reasoning for triangulating on these issues given just how much flak she JCanete Aug 2018 #55

It wasn't triangulating as much as living in reality. Do you have a link to where R B Garr Aug 2018 #61

except nobody went for all-or-nothing. Who are you referring to? Maybe some Stein supporters. JCanete Aug 2018 #65

You are parsing, clearly. Thanks for confirming that you R B Garr Aug 2018 #73

You made something entirely up that you can't back up. I don't need to parse anything. You made JCanete Aug 2018 #80

You are deviating from what Sanders said himself. R B Garr Aug 2018 #83

Show me his all-or-nothing actions. Show me where he said we shouldn't comrpomise for the best JCanete Aug 2018 #108

You can Google what he said about incrementalism. R B Garr Aug 2018 #122

Well, his lashing out at being shown to be wrong on a study conclusion is one example ehrnst Aug 2018 #123

BS was not an advocate of the Clinton health care plan in 1993-1994. lapucelle Aug 2018 #192

John Conyers introduced the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act lapucelle Aug 2018 #92

Agree: healthcare is a right. Not "access to health care." David__77 Aug 2018 #187

Therefore, Single Payer is off the table! jalan48 Aug 2018 #51

Are you joking, putting words in others' mouths, or do you really believe "1+2 equals giraffe"? Squinch Aug 2018 #53

Insurance based healthcare for all! Right? jalan48 Aug 2018 #54

There is no one in this thread who does not believe in universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #56

Good to hear and universal healthcare is no longer a pony? jalan48 Aug 2018 #57

Please link to where anyone ever said it was. Squinch Aug 2018 #59

Sorry, I was under the impression some said it would never, ever happen. Glad to see jalan48 Aug 2018 #63

Do show where anyone here ever said that, please. Squinch Aug 2018 #66

Here on DU? jalan48 Aug 2018 #67

Factcheck.org Politifact and WAPO aren't saying that. ehrnst Aug 2018 #99

Anger is it? jalan48 Aug 2018 #100

Baseless accusations and desperate attempts to change the topic usually indicate ehrnst Aug 2018 #114

Ah, the old Psychological Projection problem. jalan48 Aug 2018 #119

Stings doesn't it? ehrnst Aug 2018 #213

Look in the mirror. jalan48 Aug 2018 #215

I know you are but what am I? ehrnst Aug 2018 #216

Whatever floats your boat. jalan48 Aug 2018 #243

Is recess almost over? ehrnst Aug 2018 #244

pony,unicorn questionseverything Aug 2018 #241

Are you saying that you don't remember the 90's when Hillary Clinton led R B Garr Aug 2018 #58

What happened? jalan48 Aug 2018 #62

Your posts to Squinch were denying that anyone other than one R B Garr Aug 2018 #136

universal healthcare and universal insurance are 2dif things questionseverything Aug 2018 #242

Sanders misrepresented what a study concluded, in order to support his message. ehrnst Aug 2018 #93

Lets all be clear: thus thread is not about universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #60

First, you're wrong. Nothing is being misinterpreted by Sanders. He's using their own JCanete Aug 2018 #69

Do you want universal healthcare? So do I. So what is the Squinch Aug 2018 #70

Is it worth your time and anybody else's here to actually go to bat for the Koch study's hit-job and JCanete Aug 2018 #72

And still, you are distracted by a non-issue when you meant Squinch Aug 2018 #79

Yeah, but whereas you would blame Sanders for that, I'd blame those trying to undermine universal JCanete Aug 2018 #82

And you will make up motivations and actions for others Squinch Aug 2018 #85

You think Sanders is above being fact checked and called out when his misrepresents something? ehrnst Aug 2018 #91

asked in another thread. what is he misrepresenting? Nobody thinks Sanders is saying JCanete Aug 2018 #101

+ all that exists again Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #140

"Thank you, Koch brothers, for accidentally making the case for Medicare for All!" - Bernie ehrnst Aug 2018 #214

That's a perfect example of him not taking them at their words or intentions, JCanete Aug 2018 #218

Yep, more words... ehrnst Aug 2018 #220

You avoided all that I said that challenges what you think. He took their best-case attack and JCanete Aug 2018 #222

Interesting how people equate a fact check with "attack" ehrnst Aug 2018 #225

Really? did you read this study? If you really believe there's no wiggle room you should pay JCanete Aug 2018 #227

... Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #231

Did you read my responses to you? ehrnst Aug 2018 #245

I did not suggest that Factcheck in this case, or Tapper did anything malicious, or that they JCanete Aug 2018 #249

+ all that exists! Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #137

"What the ever loving fuck." ehrnst Aug 2018 #221

The author of the study said that his conclusions were not what Sanders' said they were. ehrnst Aug 2018 #88

You think the author would know? That's what yo've got? The author accidentally JCanete Aug 2018 #97

Um... are you saying that the author of the study can't be trusted to know his own conclusions ehrnst Aug 2018 #106

First of all, the study did not attempt to point out 2 trillion dollars in savings. That was a JCanete Aug 2018 #113

That is not what the study author says. You may think he's evil, however ehrnst Aug 2018 #223

I don't think him evil. I think he either has a very strong bias that colors his research and its JCanete Aug 2018 #224

From the abstract, since you seem to not want to acknowlege it: ehrnst Aug 2018 #226

hehe, nice, exept that I did and cross posted with it myself. JCanete Aug 2018 #228

You think it was heartfelt? I don't even fucking get it. The ridiculous statements here by some JCanete Aug 2018 #229

I just said that he cited it as "showing" something that the author said it didn't. ehrnst Aug 2018 #230

no he's not joking about using the study's numbers against it. Even the abstract cites the JCanete Aug 2018 #232

The all caps don't give you more cred... ehrnst Aug 2018 #233

the all caps was to empmahsise how loud I thought the point the study was trying to make was, JCanete Aug 2018 #234

PNHP responded to Factcheck.org's tweets SkyDancer Aug 2018 #74

+1000 jalan48 Aug 2018 #75

They also missed the point, along with Sanders ehrnst Aug 2018 #87

Nope not all SkyDancer Aug 2018 #138

You got some things confused... ehrnst Aug 2018 #160

+1 leftstreet Aug 2018 #111

Thank you SkyDancer. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #116

Charles and David thank you for your work. aidbo Aug 2018 #77

Are you saying that Factcheck.org is run by the Koch Bros? ehrnst Aug 2018 #86

Haha, no. aidbo Aug 2018 #142

Haha, no. But, interestingly, if you replace "the Kochs" in your post with "George Soros..." ehrnst Aug 2018 #148

I never said you're on their payroll, that's just something you made up to imply I'm nutty. aidbo Aug 2018 #167

Ah, so I'm "doing the Koch Bros work" and I am 'jealous of Bernie.' ehrnst Aug 2018 #168

I'm not sure if you're intentionally misunderstanding me, or what. aidbo Aug 2018 #176

So, again.... ehrnst Aug 2018 #188

You keep asking why like a child. I've answered all your questions. aidbo Aug 2018 #193

Can't answer, so you stonewall. ehrnst Aug 2018 #217

It was Sanders who gave them a platform by thanking them for their study. ucrdem Aug 2018 #208

Bernie didn't give them anything that they didn't already have. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #209

True this - if he thinks they are as off target and inaccurate as his latest tweets indicate ehrnst Aug 2018 #235

Yes because 400 million dollars just won't buy you a platform nowadays with inflation and all, Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #239

K&R ismnotwasm Aug 2018 #84

I'm with Bernie on this one. dawg Aug 2018 #121

So Factcheck and Jake Tapper are in a centrist conspiracy? JHan Aug 2018 #128

You're the only one talking about a "conspiracy". dawg Aug 2018 #130

Dude , really... JHan Aug 2018 #134

Tapper focused on the additional costs borne by the government, without ... dawg Aug 2018 #171

How does that address the difference between what Sanders said about the study conclusions ehrnst Aug 2018 #185

Bernie never used the word "conclusion" this reminds me too much of Trump's continuous use Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #189

And here we go again... he said "shows" ehrnst Aug 2018 #191

That part is correct and IT IS IN he study insofar as Blahous was using Bernie's Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #194

Oh dear. There you go clearly stating what happened. Good luck with that! Nanjeanne Aug 2018 #195

Again... the authors own words: ehrnst Aug 2018 #196

Blahous' "alternate reality" projections are riddled with mathematical flaws all skewed Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #197

Trying to change the topic is not working. ehrnst Aug 2018 #198

Fact check is wrong and misrepresenting what Bernie actually stated and from your Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #199

If trying to split hairs between ehrnst Aug 2018 #200

Binary is trashing a message simply because you don't like the source Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #201

"they didn't like the growing popularity of Medicare for All. " ehrnst Aug 2018 #202

What, no comment on the LA Times article that I just posted? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #203

I commented on the LA times article already on this thread. ehrnst Aug 2018 #204

I was going to reply directly to dawg, but your response is better than I came up with. JHan Aug 2018 #212

Ah, I see that accusing the media of being "fake news" when they report something about your ehrnst Aug 2018 #153

Your assumption is incorrect. dawg Aug 2018 #169

Well, I think that my representation of your assumption is more correct than your representation. ehrnst Aug 2018 #173

In other words, you're gonna believe what you want to believe, no matter what I say. dawg Aug 2018 #178

In the same way you are going to believe what you want to about ehrnst Aug 2018 #180

Damn ... dawg Aug 2018 #182

I simply said that yes, Obama did not tell the truth about that, and yes, the ramifications were ehrnst Aug 2018 #183

Sanders criticized the Urban Institute too SteveMO Aug 2018 #179

There is no tolerance for dissent with Sanders. ehrnst Aug 2018 #184

So facts are "centrist" now. ehrnst Aug 2018 #154

The "facts" are on Bernie's side. (In this instance) dawg Aug 2018 #170

No, the study author states those are not the conclusions the study reached. ehrnst Aug 2018 #174

Do you deny that the numbers Sanders cited were reflected in the study? dawg Aug 2018 #181

Well, seeing as Tapper has changed that part of the argument, and the conclusion is still the same. ehrnst Aug 2018 #186

This study does not support sanders' claims Gothmog Aug 2018 #125

#BernieMath...nt SidDithers Aug 2018 #256

lol Cha Aug 2018 #263