General Discussion

Fiendish Thingy

(22,650 posts)

4. It's not 16 trillion extra, it's 2 trillion less over 10 years

Wed Aug 22, 2018, 11:12 PM

Aug 2018

The 16 trillion extra is on govt. expenses, and doesn't include savings to citizens and employers from not having to pay premiums, copays and deductibles, resulting in an overall net reduction of $2 trillion in overall healthcare spending nationwide, and EVERYONE IS COVERED, EQUALLY. No "Cadillac" plans, vs. gold, silver, bronze or tin plans.

So, yes, taxes may go up ( should go way up on the 1%), but total out of pocket costs will go way down, as no third party insurance company profits, shareholder dividends/profits, CEO multimillion bonuses or excessive administrative costs will be involved .

And, they could always cut the defense budget in half (except for SPACE FORCE!, which should launch anyone named Trump into permanent Earth orbit on the new SPACE FORCE! Space base)

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So where will the extra $16 trillion come from to pay for Sanders' plan? [View all] dansolo Aug 2018 OP

Exactly my thinking. berines day has come and gone. Now w this tax cut, the gop Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #1

Increase the taxes on the wealthy. That's always been the answer. Eyeball_Kid Aug 2018 #176

Tax Sugar Grease And Processed Food Like We Should PaulX2 Aug 2018 #2

You do know that the soda tax failed, right? ehrnst Aug 2018 #91

Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #113

Yeah! We should just let them DIIIEEE!! Horrible fatties!!!!! Adrahil Aug 2018 #133

Absolutely Not - I Am Obese And Trying To Diet Every Day - Provide Them / Us With Care PaulX2 Aug 2018 #135

That's not what I took from your reply there.... Adrahil Aug 2018 #136

It's disappointing that Sanders can't seem to level with people on the costs. stopbush Aug 2018 #3

US healthcare is the most expensive in the world. Implement a European model and Doodley Aug 2018 #8

Not true. stopbush Aug 2018 #14

Scrap the overcharging. Scrap the excessive profits. Scrap the insurance scam. Scrap all the Doodley Aug 2018 #39

Even if one stipulates to your points, none of that will happen at once or overnight. stopbush Aug 2018 #48

I don't get your resistance to having a more efficient system that means healthcare is Doodley Aug 2018 #60

Who is being resistent? I am for universal care, but we need to have an HONEST stopbush Aug 2018 #62

It took Europe and Canada 70 years to get where it is, and they were starting on a clean slate. ehrnst Aug 2018 #140

Indeed. But anger gets more voters, always has. ehrnst Aug 2018 #141

The health care delivery system and it's funding are in an economic ecosystem. ehrnst Aug 2018 #139

But of course, nobody is paying anything for healthcare now? rgbecker Aug 2018 #49

Thank you for making my point for me when it cones to the 7.5% payroll tax. stopbush Aug 2018 #57

I don't know if you can just multiply by 4 TheFarseer Aug 2018 #53

Older people don't have babies. Do you know what the costs are for having a baby? stopbush Aug 2018 #61

And younger people rarely have heart attacks. Mariana Aug 2018 #118

I have borderline type 2 diabetes. My medication costs me around $10 for a 3-month supply. stopbush Aug 2018 #121

You would not need to increase Medicare spending, and thus the Medicare tax four-fold VMA131Marine Aug 2018 #56

And don't forget Medicare only pays 80%. What about the other 20%? brush Aug 2018 #66

Hold on, let me see, so that would increase my FICA tax by about 40 bucks a month... Humanist_Activist Aug 2018 #67

Did you calculate in the $134 a month you'd be paying in Medicare premiums? stopbush Aug 2018 #75

Actually, I would be paying into Medicare about 150 dollars a month, versus... Humanist_Activist Aug 2018 #78

The average monthly Medicare premium is $134 for 2018. stopbush Aug 2018 #81

I would be paying well over double my premium if my fiancee were on my insurance... Humanist_Activist Aug 2018 #86

And Medicare for All promises WAY more than Medicare does, & will as such, cost more than Medicare. ehrnst Aug 2018 #154

Another variable will be the mandate that all workers at every age level stopbush Aug 2018 #161

I know. I think it's a combination of being overly confident of one's skills in economics ehrnst Aug 2018 #162

Cafe Hayek? melman Aug 2018 #163

It was the clearest image I found in a quick google search of images. ehrnst Aug 2018 #189

Wow melman Aug 2018 #193

I guess if you need to see something nefarious, you will. ehrnst Aug 2018 #194

As I said melman Aug 2018 #195

Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #196

Oh good, a guilt by association! Cary Aug 2018 #204

AT a time when the ONLY conversation should be ELECT Democrats NO MATTER WHAT Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #203

The group covered by Medicare has the highest medical expense Cary Aug 2018 #111

So? That's only one factor in the larger picture. stopbush Aug 2018 #114

So I question your extrapolation Cary Aug 2018 #117

You're math is oversimplified TheRealNorth Aug 2018 #155

but you and your employer would not be paying insurance premiums scarytomcat Aug 2018 #164

Not accurate. Employer and employee will both pay higher FICA taxes stopbush Aug 2018 #165

we don't know yet how it would be paid for scarytomcat Aug 2018 #175

That's my point about the plan Sanders has put forward. stopbush Aug 2018 #178

When you say we pay as much as nations with better healthcare stopbush Aug 2018 #52

We pay more in taxes alone than the UK pays in TOTAL for healthvare. Doctors in the UK are Doodley Aug 2018 #58

Do you have a source for those claims? stopbush Aug 2018 #63

You know how long it took for any "European model" - whichever of the of the several ehrnst Aug 2018 #94

Which European model should be used? George II Aug 2018 #160

"European style health insurance" is a myth anyway DFW Aug 2018 #12

I know that. I used a shorthand. So sue me. stopbush Aug 2018 #13

That's not a problem DFW Aug 2018 #15

Is that simply a concern born of guesswork? LanternWaste Aug 2018 #51

Remember "You can keep your health care policy?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #97

Not my concern. Yours, apparently. DFW Aug 2018 #115

I'm expecting to here Lugenpresse! any minute now. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #150

Yep. Words matter. Remember "You can keep your health care policy?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #96

Oh, yes. The extremist right adores whataboutism. DFW Aug 2018 #116

And SkyDancer Aug 2018 #17

There is no such thing as a "German system" DFW Aug 2018 #33

And my wife's parents were bankrupted by the American heathcare system. My wife would be Doodley Aug 2018 #40

It's not 16 trillion extra, it's 2 trillion less over 10 years Fiendish Thingy Aug 2018 #4

B-I-N-G-O --------- WE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!!!!!!! groundloop Aug 2018 #45

Not to mention, with EVERYONE covered and getting proper medical care TexasBushwhacker Aug 2018 #64

How does M4A pay for OB/Prenatal and Pediatric Care? forthemiddle Aug 2018 #102

That is what the mandate was supposed to accomplish. Laying the groundwork. ehrnst Aug 2018 #142

"And, they could always cut the defense budget in half " ehrnst Aug 2018 #100

"Cutting the defense budget in half" ehrnst Aug 2018 #151

Of course it would have to be phased in Fiendish Thingy Aug 2018 #166

What's the big deal? NoSmoke Aug 2018 #5

The big deal? GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #9

You are wrong. Taxes would not increase dramatically. The UK spends about HALF per person Doodley Aug 2018 #11

I don't think the U.K. model is a good one to use Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #24

I agree, but it isn't "broke" and health outcomes are better than in America. Doodley Aug 2018 #36

Things like infant mortality rates are not good benchmarks Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #37

Are you trying to argue that America is getting value for money out of its healthcare Doodley Aug 2018 #42

No Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #47

Well said. CanSocDem Aug 2018 #44

May be but keep in mind NoSmoke Aug 2018 #65

Much of that is what I posted above Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #69

So taxes are less in the UK? GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #35

Taxes that go toward healthcare in the UK are less than taxes that go toward healthcare Doodley Aug 2018 #38

The only taxes I pay for health care is what I pay for Medicare GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #122

Are you saying your taxes don't help to pay for Medicare AND Medicaid? Your taxes go towards Doodley Aug 2018 #206

We all pay taxes for the subsidies that are paid to private companies Autumn Aug 2018 #207

The UK has a much smaller population, and have been tweaking and adjusting ehrnst Aug 2018 #191

Ever heard of economy of scale? Are you arguing against a system Doodley Aug 2018 #205

We are not the UK. ehrnst Aug 2018 #138

Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #183

So you're basically saying SkyDancer Aug 2018 #20

You obviously did not read my reply carefully GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #34

"It often times leads back to the health care lobby & big pharma lobby." ehrnst Aug 2018 #70

It does SkyDancer Aug 2018 #73

I'm supporting evidence based policies, thanks! ehrnst Aug 2018 #76

Hey that's great! I do too! SkyDancer Aug 2018 #82

Then you should share that side of you more often! ehrnst Aug 2018 #89

I share it a lot SkyDancer Aug 2018 #92

I didn't say he was. ehrnst Aug 2018 #103

LOL!@ehrnst! Cha Aug 2018 #169

Speaking of reinventing. George II Aug 2018 #71

...... ehrnst Aug 2018 #80

IT IS NOT TIME. It is so bad a time to argue Hortensis Aug 2018 #185

IT IS THE TIME SkyDancer Aug 2018 #187

I think you are naming the wrong thing the "shiny object" here. ehrnst Aug 2018 #188

Because they started 70 years ago, and expanded gradually as medicine did ehrnst Aug 2018 #101

i don't think he has a plan yet JI7 Aug 2018 #6

That $32.8 trillion is obviously wrong. Deduct two trillion per year, the government already pays, Doodley Aug 2018 #7

So you expect perfect implementation Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #25

Are there any other nations of 320+ million people who do this? George II Aug 2018 #74

If you add the savings from medical marijuana to the revenue from taxing the Clinton foundation ucrdem Aug 2018 #10

How do we pay for it SkyDancer Aug 2018 #16

A.fucking.men! Duppers Aug 2018 #18

It is rather odd SkyDancer Aug 2018 #19

+1 CentralMass Aug 2018 #27

So many reasons. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #30

This Hekate Aug 2018 #54

So many reasons? SkyDancer Aug 2018 #79

The reaction by many to any factchecking or dissent from their leader's statments ehrnst Aug 2018 #106

They are terrified he will be vetted. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #108

The lack of transparency on finances is especially troubling. ehrnst Aug 2018 #110

You sound scared that Bernie may run in 2020 SkyDancer Aug 2018 #119

Of course Sanders will run in 2020. ehrnst Aug 2018 #126

Where did Ehrnst ever say she wanted to tear down Single Payer.. JHan Aug 2018 #167

Yet another silly, pointless false dillema from Skydancer. ehrnst Aug 2018 #200

The only scary thing about Bernie is his ability to fuck shit up for Democrats. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #107

Yes like bringing in more young voters SkyDancer Aug 2018 #120

"More than most" who... Republicans? ehrnst Aug 2018 #128

+++the hyprocisy stinks. JHan Aug 2018 #168

Exactly! Cha Aug 2018 #171

"Everything is on his website. You should check that out. It goes into depth too!" George II Aug 2018 #109

No link to the actual bill. ehrnst Aug 2018 #112

is there an actual bill ? JI7 Aug 2018 #124

Yes. ehrnst Aug 2018 #125

+1000. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #104

Thank You, MrsCoffee.. and Cha Aug 2018 #170

You mean like accusing reputable fact check orgs of being "fake news" ehrnst Aug 2018 #137

+1 uponit7771 Aug 2018 #21

It's going to have to be worked out by legislators. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #23

Indeed. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #105

One new aircraft carrier costs 14 billion dollars. Shemp Howard Aug 2018 #32

Charles & David's Little Helpers are very busy! n/t QC Aug 2018 #41

Care to elaborate? Are you saying things go better with Koch? Hekate Aug 2018 #55

Yes, they are trying to say it without "saying it." ehrnst Aug 2018 #143

..... ehrnst Aug 2018 #144

Look in the mirror. Cha Aug 2018 #172

Ah, the ol' MIC complaint. Two simple questions: George II Aug 2018 #93

Yup.. disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #95

Actually, no, "how do we pay for it?" is the question that Democrats ask ehrnst Aug 2018 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author NCTraveler Aug 2018 #22

HR 676 has funding details built into the legislation. lapucelle Aug 2018 #26

Look at the Koch-study that supports his plan: DetlefK Aug 2018 #28

The Mercatus study doesn't support his plan. ehrnst Aug 2018 #145

I haven't been following this particular thread, but the obvious answer is taxes. Vinca Aug 2018 #29

Please stop peddling right-wing talking points. Ace Rothstein Aug 2018 #31

Please stop smearing anyone who questions a bill as "peddling right wing talking points" ehrnst Aug 2018 #149

Free stuff without a plan is Sander's specialty. nt LexVegas Aug 2018 #43

Paying good money for things... CanSocDem Aug 2018 #46

+1 SkyDancer Aug 2018 #85

Right now, millions of taxpayers without children are paying for K-12 education. David__77 Aug 2018 #130

Most countries... CanSocDem Aug 2018 #131

I think both are good investments. David__77 Aug 2018 #132

Unicorns who fart rainbows, where else? Hekate Aug 2018 #50

It could easily come from raising taxes on the rich to the same Squinch Aug 2018 #59

Bernie already tried that option dansolo Aug 2018 #68

Would you stop this disinformation & conservative talking points? SkyDancer Aug 2018 #87

He doesn't link to the actual bill. Not surprised. ehrnst Aug 2018 #147

Really? Gothmog Aug 2018 #152

I look forward to you explaining SkyDancer Aug 2018 #173

But you claimed that bernie's plan is perfect and that this plan has all of the details filled is Gothmog Aug 2018 #186

However, if there was ever a state that was friendly to single payer, wouldn't it be the one that ehrnst Aug 2018 #190

That's not "how it's paid for", those are sweep generalities. George II Aug 2018 #159

Or some other source. Reducing military spending, etc. I have no problem paying more for Squinch Aug 2018 #90

no, rest of us would have to pay more also . this is why Vermont and other States never went through JI7 Aug 2018 #123

No, it wouldn't SkyDancer Aug 2018 #127

Actually no, they didn't quite support Sanders's claims ehrnst Aug 2018 #148

Your guess is as good as mine. George II Aug 2018 #72

Printing press is working fine at140 Aug 2018 #77

Funny. Rand Paul says the same exact thing. SkyDancer Aug 2018 #174

It is sad, not funny! at140 Aug 2018 #181

You "concern" is duly noted.... vi5 Aug 2018 #83

"You can keep your health insurance policy!" ehrnst Aug 2018 #153

Who said that? n/t theaocp Aug 2018 #179

Obama. 2012. ehrnst Aug 2018 #180

Meanwhile BigMin28 Aug 2018 #84

Michael Hiltzik of the LA Times holds forth on this very question: CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2018 #88

That article does not address funding dansolo Aug 2018 #129

+1000. It's an editorial, and not a fact checking journalist. ehrnst Aug 2018 #146

Follow along now DiverDave Aug 2018 #98

Follow along now... ehrnst Aug 2018 #156

Im sorry, I wasnt clear DiverDave Aug 2018 #198

Ah, yes. ehrnst Aug 2018 #199

I lulz'd KG Aug 2018 #99

Sander ALWAYS hand-waves the money. Adrahil Aug 2018 #134

There is no way to rebuild from the ground up without wrecking health care delivery. ehrnst Aug 2018 #157

I suggest the military budget. roody Aug 2018 #158

The money can come from right here. ZX86 Aug 2018 #177

Alinsky irony mikehiggins Aug 2018 #182

Most employers would probably love to lose that obligation. ucrdem Aug 2018 #184

Will you guys please fucking stop? A HERETIC I AM Aug 2018 #197

May I suggest the "ignore feature" ehrnst Aug 2018 #201

Thanks for the tip..... A HERETIC I AM Aug 2018 #202