General Discussion

dawg

(10,777 posts)

178. In other words, you're gonna believe what you want to believe, no matter what I say.

Thu Aug 23, 2018, 10:43 AM

Aug 2018

Got it.

For the record, I'm not a Sanders supporter and I very much hope that he does not run for President again. He's a divisive figure who does more to set back the progressive agenda than he does to advance it.

But I'm not going to stand up and cheer when our blathering pundit class gives him the same slanted treatment they gave Hillary, Obama, Kerry, Dean, and Gore before him.

They (Politico in this instance) accused Obama of the 2013 "Lie of the Year" for a statement that was essentially true. But I guess I'm a wacky conspiracy theorist for thinking *that* was an unfair "fact check".

Meanwhile, Paul Ryan was getting awards for fiscal responsibility while producing budgets that were more fantasy-based than Game of Thrones.

This urge for false "balance" is partly to blame for Donald Trump being elected President in the first place, and incidents like this one make me very fearful that no lessons have been learned from that at all.

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Factcheck.org responds to accusations in a tweetstorm from Senator Sanders re: Mercatus study [View all] ehrnst Aug 2018 OP

This is the sort of nonsense that our representatives should refrain from-- dawg day Aug 2018 #1

Unfortunately he doesn't tolerate dissent or any suggestion that he is wrong/mistaken. ehrnst Aug 2018 #3

well if your agenda is to make sure he's wrong and mistaken, do better than this or Tapper's lousy JCanete Aug 2018 #17

Has Vermont adopted the magical sanders single payer plan yet? Gothmog Aug 2018 #78

spoken like someone who has medical care questionseverything Aug 2018 #236

But this plans pays for itself according to sanders Gothmog Aug 2018 #237

as i said...you have an"i got mine attitude" questionseverything Aug 2018 #240

Actually, he is mistaken about what the study concluded, as per the author, and misrepresented what ehrnst Aug 2018 #126

everyone is wrong heaven05 Aug 2018 #18

okaaay but push-back on a bullshit hit-piece is not not tolerating dissent. It is correcting the JCanete Aug 2018 #20

the OP heaven05 Aug 2018 #22

You did not make an argument supported by evidence here. What does not tolerating dissent look like? JCanete Aug 2018 #24

you're entitled heaven05 Aug 2018 #26

So true! I'm seeing it in other topics. The very mild vetting of the touted policies R B Garr Aug 2018 #25

I know it's amazing heaven05 Aug 2018 #27

Denial. And the ruthlessly anti-progressive Kochs? Hortensis Aug 2018 #64

Exactly. Who would trust a single thing a partisan R B Garr Aug 2018 #76

I think Sanders propaganda would be more accepted if he simply said... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #2

I think if he just learned to accept corrections or dissent gracefully ehrnst Aug 2018 #12

When You Tell The Truth And Never Sell Out PaulX2 Aug 2018 #31

Tell the truth? What about his tax returns? n/t dansolo Aug 2018 #35

"Bernie Goes Full...Trump? Blames Hillary For Russian Interference" emulatorloo Aug 2018 #90

Everybody is wrong but BERNIE!!!! ehrnst Aug 2018 #120

I imagine that's a big part of why... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #94

When you are caught misrepresenting something and you never admit it ehrnst Aug 2018 #117

Thank You, ehrnst! Jeeze! Cha Aug 2018 #127

The ability to learn and QUICKLY adapt to new information ecstatic Aug 2018 #139

few and checkered... thank you. NurseJackie Aug 2018 #13

Bookmarking. n/t rzemanfl Aug 2018 #4

Factcheck.org has a lot more credibility than the Senator comradebillyboy Aug 2018 #5

Certainly after his outsized response to his claims about the Mercatus study being factchecked. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #6

Some Can't Handle The Truth PaulX2 Aug 2018 #34

I think that those who got their knickers in a knot over Bernie being factchecked ehrnst Aug 2018 #96

Some Of Us Want More Than Crumbs PaulX2 Aug 2018 #105

What does that have to do with Sanders and AOC misrepresenting the conclusions of the study? ehrnst Aug 2018 #107

Got nothing? Not surprised. ehrnst Aug 2018 #161

"Too bad non billionaires have little say in legislation"? George II Aug 2018 #131

We are all gonna die Beearewhyain Aug 2018 #7

I didn't realize it back then, TexasTowelie Aug 2018 #15

Hllarious thanks for posting! emulatorloo Aug 2018 #103

We'll be hearing "truth isn't truth" a lot in the coming months. George II Aug 2018 #8

FactCheck should stick to checking facts ... GeorgeGist Aug 2018 #9

They didn't debate assumptions, they added more facts to their fact checking. George II Aug 2018 #10

what facts were those? nt JCanete Aug 2018 #29

Fact checking is what they did:They checked the facts on Sanders' claims about what the study said. ehrnst Aug 2018 #11

Well that is outright stupid. They know that Sanders is using a specific instance of the study and JCanete Aug 2018 #28

Because the BS bill has no funding provisions, lapucelle Aug 2018 #71

Facts are good things Gothmog Aug 2018 #14

So what are they saying? That was all over the place. They aren't saying Sanders assumptions are JCanete Aug 2018 #16

These similar OPs are starting to become mini echo chambers, with the same respondents. TheBlackAdder Aug 2018 #19

Everything I see is dated recently. August 2018 or thereabout. nt R B Garr Aug 2018 #21

"Starting" to become? They've been self-congratulatory mini-echo chambers for at least 2 years. stranger81 Aug 2018 #141

"Same tiny handful of extremely vociferous posters who lose their noodles whenever anyone betsuni Aug 2018 #143

Not **all** democrats are indifferent to economic inequality issues. stranger81 Aug 2018 #144

Wrong. betsuni Aug 2018 #156

Two years ago is when Sanders lost. I'm so glad that two years later we have R B Garr Aug 2018 #177

There's an old story about a wooden horse ucrdem Aug 2018 #23

+ a million ..The oldest story on the books. BUYER BEWARE Wwcd Aug 2018 #32

Bingo. And in case anyone still doesn't get it ucrdem Aug 2018 #40

"To say the study is "making the case for Medicare for All," as @SenSanders said, is misleading spin Wwcd Aug 2018 #30

What context do we need here? When Sanders says " I'd like to thank the Koch brothers of all people JCanete Aug 2018 #41

The study presents two scenarios based on BS's assumptions. lapucelle Aug 2018 #81

Both arent' equally likely, and one of the reasons for that is how much inforamtion the study does JCanete Aug 2018 #89

No one is pushing for the Conyers plan in the Senate. lapucelle Aug 2018 #98

Well where are they? I'll take what we have over what we don't. I certainly won't use JCanete Aug 2018 #102

Well, I certainly like it when a politician is honest. ehrnst Aug 2018 #110

You haven't shown a mistake. Neither has Tapper or factcheck. you just keep repeating it as JCanete Aug 2018 #118

I don't know why BS didn't model his bill on HR 676. lapucelle Aug 2018 #124

"So while the number Sanders chose really does appear in the report, he's cherry-picked lapucelle Aug 2018 #190

Whenever Democrats bicker, Sanders is always at the base of it. Squinch Aug 2018 #33

Why are we bickering on supporting medicare for all? That's not on him. nt JCanete Aug 2018 #37

Yes it is. There is no one on this thread who does not support universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #38

I don't think you are correct about that actually, from converations I've had here in the past. JCanete Aug 2018 #43

Show where anyone here has ever not supported universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #52

Strawman. You are surrounded by left liberals/progressives at DU who support healthcare as a right. emulatorloo Aug 2018 #95

No, he never embraced it. Taht's factually incorrect. Taking something out of a hostile JCanete Aug 2018 #104

He should declare victory and move on IMHO. He should focus on M4A, not twitter wars emulatorloo Aug 2018 #109

People hear a fact check and they take its word for things. YOu have to push back against wrong JCanete Aug 2018 #115

That sort of thing can make one look vindictive, rather than secure. ehrnst Aug 2018 #247

That doesn't make any sense. Its vindictive to challenge the veracity or tone of an article or JCanete Aug 2018 #251

When one lashes out angrily with misrepresentations of ehrnst Aug 2018 #254

The factchecking did that. I'm sorry. That's what it did. I never claimed that it is agreeing JCanete Aug 2018 #255

All Democrats are on the same page concerning Universal Health Care ehrnst Aug 2018 #246

"What pray tell, is her means of assuring that everybody is covered?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #248

ACA is not 100 percent coverage. There is no mechanism that could make it so. What acocunts for it JCanete Aug 2018 #250

Again, you don't seem to understand what "universal health care" means. ehrnst Aug 2018 #257

oh man....I don't have a beef with the ACA. I'm glad it passed. I'm glad it has survived. It is JCanete Aug 2018 #260

Now do you understand that the ACA is indeed the furthest along the road to UHC that we ehrnst Aug 2018 #261

That's right, I don't get why incremental change is the only way to do this. JCanete Aug 2018 #262

Ted Kennedy regrets that he didn't compromise in 1972. ehrnst Aug 2018 #264

Healthcare Is A Right PaulX2 Aug 2018 #36

There is no one here who disputes that healthcare for all Squinch Aug 2018 #39

I'm Thanking Bernie For Making It Part Of His Message PaulX2 Aug 2018 #42

I don't suppose you've heard of the PPACA? ucrdem Aug 2018 #44

Dems lost offices for running away from it. It was such a weak front we put up after we passed it, JCanete Aug 2018 #46

Oh baloney. And access to healthcare has been part of the Dem message since the 1930s at least. nt ucrdem Aug 2018 #48

It isn't a consistent message. We aren't all on the same page. We don't all want the same thing. JCanete Aug 2018 #49

.. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #112

It has been a consistent message. lapucelle Aug 2018 #129

Here are SEN. CONYER'S cosponsors for his first bill. Hortensis Aug 2018 #132

I appreciate that this has reached over 100 democratic congresspeople. Taht's something. JCanete Aug 2018 #145

Disingenuous. The Republicans blocked passage. Hortensis Aug 2018 #150

what are you talking about? We had an opportunity to pass this sort of thing when JCanete Aug 2018 #159

That's an edited version of history to fit a story Hortensis Aug 2018 #163

You just told me that Republicans killed Conyer's efforts for single payer. JCanete Aug 2018 #165

the aca left out 20 million peops and another 40 mil who cant afford touse what they have questionseverything Aug 2018 #238

It's a hint that maybe there is a better option. ehrnst Aug 2018 #151

No ehrnst, because the major difference is the actual facts brought to bear in this JCanete Aug 2018 #162

No, to say that he misrepresented the conclusions of the study is not disingenuous. ehrnst Aug 2018 #164

Welp, there you go. You've apparently read none of my posts regarding this, which JCanete Aug 2018 #166

I read your posts. ehrnst Aug 2018 #172

Looks consistent to me. betsuni Aug 2018 #133

Or...you can just listen to some of our leaders tell you themselves whether or not they JCanete Aug 2018 #146

I roast the bananas when I make banana bread. betsuni Aug 2018 #152

I predict your facts will be ignored... JHan Aug 2018 #135

JHan, what did these facts prove to you. That we really are ALL in favor of universal healthcare? JCanete Aug 2018 #147

I can't help your obsession with particular democrats JHan Aug 2018 #149

That isn't what I was doing. What was in question was whether or not we all want universal JCanete Aug 2018 #155

LOL betsuni Aug 2018 #157

ROFL...insert emogie....LMAO JCanete Aug 2018 #158

No, that is not what is in question, "whether or not we all want universal healthcare" R B Garr Aug 2018 #175

They keep on trying to attack that strawman... ehrnst Aug 2018 #205

nice. You couldn't just be having a conversation with an honest actor coming to his own conclusions JCanete Aug 2018 #206

That book came out before 2016 election. ehrnst Aug 2018 #210

Yes, it is very obvious. How anyone can say that Democrats aren't R B Garr Aug 2018 #207

Black and white, good and evil. ehrnst Aug 2018 #211

ouch such a sting....except that I'm not a Stein supporter and neither was Sanders. The JCanete Aug 2018 #219

Actually, yes, Democrats all want Universal Health Care ehrnst Aug 2018 #252

first of all, I never suggested that people were intentionally propping up the Koch study here, JCanete Aug 2018 #253

Yes, the ACA is a plan for UHC. ehrnst Aug 2018 #258

You don't have to be siding with the Koch's or their agenda to still privilege their talking point JCanete Aug 2018 #259

Dems Didn't Defend Doing The Right Thing PaulX2 Aug 2018 #68

We have Hillary to thank for that from 25 years ago. She put R B Garr Aug 2018 #45

We do have her to thank for that. Too bad the lesson she learned from it is that those chances are JCanete Aug 2018 #47

Do you have a link to where Hillary Clinton said it was political suicide R B Garr Aug 2018 #50

I understand Clinton's reasoning for triangulating on these issues given just how much flak she JCanete Aug 2018 #55

It wasn't triangulating as much as living in reality. Do you have a link to where R B Garr Aug 2018 #61

except nobody went for all-or-nothing. Who are you referring to? Maybe some Stein supporters. JCanete Aug 2018 #65

You are parsing, clearly. Thanks for confirming that you R B Garr Aug 2018 #73

You made something entirely up that you can't back up. I don't need to parse anything. You made JCanete Aug 2018 #80

You are deviating from what Sanders said himself. R B Garr Aug 2018 #83

Show me his all-or-nothing actions. Show me where he said we shouldn't comrpomise for the best JCanete Aug 2018 #108

You can Google what he said about incrementalism. R B Garr Aug 2018 #122

Well, his lashing out at being shown to be wrong on a study conclusion is one example ehrnst Aug 2018 #123

BS was not an advocate of the Clinton health care plan in 1993-1994. lapucelle Aug 2018 #192

John Conyers introduced the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act lapucelle Aug 2018 #92

Agree: healthcare is a right. Not "access to health care." David__77 Aug 2018 #187

Therefore, Single Payer is off the table! jalan48 Aug 2018 #51

Are you joking, putting words in others' mouths, or do you really believe "1+2 equals giraffe"? Squinch Aug 2018 #53

Insurance based healthcare for all! Right? jalan48 Aug 2018 #54

There is no one in this thread who does not believe in universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #56

Good to hear and universal healthcare is no longer a pony? jalan48 Aug 2018 #57

Please link to where anyone ever said it was. Squinch Aug 2018 #59

Sorry, I was under the impression some said it would never, ever happen. Glad to see jalan48 Aug 2018 #63

Do show where anyone here ever said that, please. Squinch Aug 2018 #66

Here on DU? jalan48 Aug 2018 #67

Factcheck.org Politifact and WAPO aren't saying that. ehrnst Aug 2018 #99

Anger is it? jalan48 Aug 2018 #100

Baseless accusations and desperate attempts to change the topic usually indicate ehrnst Aug 2018 #114

Ah, the old Psychological Projection problem. jalan48 Aug 2018 #119

Stings doesn't it? ehrnst Aug 2018 #213

Look in the mirror. jalan48 Aug 2018 #215

I know you are but what am I? ehrnst Aug 2018 #216

Whatever floats your boat. jalan48 Aug 2018 #243

Is recess almost over? ehrnst Aug 2018 #244

pony,unicorn questionseverything Aug 2018 #241

Are you saying that you don't remember the 90's when Hillary Clinton led R B Garr Aug 2018 #58

What happened? jalan48 Aug 2018 #62

Your posts to Squinch were denying that anyone other than one R B Garr Aug 2018 #136

universal healthcare and universal insurance are 2dif things questionseverything Aug 2018 #242

Sanders misrepresented what a study concluded, in order to support his message. ehrnst Aug 2018 #93

Lets all be clear: thus thread is not about universal healthcare. Squinch Aug 2018 #60

First, you're wrong. Nothing is being misinterpreted by Sanders. He's using their own JCanete Aug 2018 #69

Do you want universal healthcare? So do I. So what is the Squinch Aug 2018 #70

Is it worth your time and anybody else's here to actually go to bat for the Koch study's hit-job and JCanete Aug 2018 #72

And still, you are distracted by a non-issue when you meant Squinch Aug 2018 #79

Yeah, but whereas you would blame Sanders for that, I'd blame those trying to undermine universal JCanete Aug 2018 #82

And you will make up motivations and actions for others Squinch Aug 2018 #85

You think Sanders is above being fact checked and called out when his misrepresents something? ehrnst Aug 2018 #91

asked in another thread. what is he misrepresenting? Nobody thinks Sanders is saying JCanete Aug 2018 #101

+ all that exists again Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #140

"Thank you, Koch brothers, for accidentally making the case for Medicare for All!" - Bernie ehrnst Aug 2018 #214

That's a perfect example of him not taking them at their words or intentions, JCanete Aug 2018 #218

Yep, more words... ehrnst Aug 2018 #220

You avoided all that I said that challenges what you think. He took their best-case attack and JCanete Aug 2018 #222

Interesting how people equate a fact check with "attack" ehrnst Aug 2018 #225

Really? did you read this study? If you really believe there's no wiggle room you should pay JCanete Aug 2018 #227

... Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #231

Did you read my responses to you? ehrnst Aug 2018 #245

I did not suggest that Factcheck in this case, or Tapper did anything malicious, or that they JCanete Aug 2018 #249

+ all that exists! Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #137

"What the ever loving fuck." ehrnst Aug 2018 #221

The author of the study said that his conclusions were not what Sanders' said they were. ehrnst Aug 2018 #88

You think the author would know? That's what yo've got? The author accidentally JCanete Aug 2018 #97

Um... are you saying that the author of the study can't be trusted to know his own conclusions ehrnst Aug 2018 #106

First of all, the study did not attempt to point out 2 trillion dollars in savings. That was a JCanete Aug 2018 #113

That is not what the study author says. You may think he's evil, however ehrnst Aug 2018 #223

I don't think him evil. I think he either has a very strong bias that colors his research and its JCanete Aug 2018 #224

From the abstract, since you seem to not want to acknowlege it: ehrnst Aug 2018 #226

hehe, nice, exept that I did and cross posted with it myself. JCanete Aug 2018 #228

You think it was heartfelt? I don't even fucking get it. The ridiculous statements here by some JCanete Aug 2018 #229

I just said that he cited it as "showing" something that the author said it didn't. ehrnst Aug 2018 #230

no he's not joking about using the study's numbers against it. Even the abstract cites the JCanete Aug 2018 #232

The all caps don't give you more cred... ehrnst Aug 2018 #233

the all caps was to empmahsise how loud I thought the point the study was trying to make was, JCanete Aug 2018 #234

PNHP responded to Factcheck.org's tweets SkyDancer Aug 2018 #74

+1000 jalan48 Aug 2018 #75

They also missed the point, along with Sanders ehrnst Aug 2018 #87

Nope not all SkyDancer Aug 2018 #138

You got some things confused... ehrnst Aug 2018 #160

+1 leftstreet Aug 2018 #111

Thank you SkyDancer. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #116

Charles and David thank you for your work. aidbo Aug 2018 #77

Are you saying that Factcheck.org is run by the Koch Bros? ehrnst Aug 2018 #86

Haha, no. aidbo Aug 2018 #142

Haha, no. But, interestingly, if you replace "the Kochs" in your post with "George Soros..." ehrnst Aug 2018 #148

I never said you're on their payroll, that's just something you made up to imply I'm nutty. aidbo Aug 2018 #167

Ah, so I'm "doing the Koch Bros work" and I am 'jealous of Bernie.' ehrnst Aug 2018 #168

I'm not sure if you're intentionally misunderstanding me, or what. aidbo Aug 2018 #176

So, again.... ehrnst Aug 2018 #188

You keep asking why like a child. I've answered all your questions. aidbo Aug 2018 #193

Can't answer, so you stonewall. ehrnst Aug 2018 #217

It was Sanders who gave them a platform by thanking them for their study. ucrdem Aug 2018 #208

Bernie didn't give them anything that they didn't already have. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #209

True this - if he thinks they are as off target and inaccurate as his latest tweets indicate ehrnst Aug 2018 #235

Yes because 400 million dollars just won't buy you a platform nowadays with inflation and all, Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #239

K&R ismnotwasm Aug 2018 #84

I'm with Bernie on this one. dawg Aug 2018 #121

So Factcheck and Jake Tapper are in a centrist conspiracy? JHan Aug 2018 #128

You're the only one talking about a "conspiracy". dawg Aug 2018 #130

Dude , really... JHan Aug 2018 #134

Tapper focused on the additional costs borne by the government, without ... dawg Aug 2018 #171

How does that address the difference between what Sanders said about the study conclusions ehrnst Aug 2018 #185

Bernie never used the word "conclusion" this reminds me too much of Trump's continuous use Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #189

And here we go again... he said "shows" ehrnst Aug 2018 #191

That part is correct and IT IS IN he study insofar as Blahous was using Bernie's Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #194

Oh dear. There you go clearly stating what happened. Good luck with that! Nanjeanne Aug 2018 #195

Again... the authors own words: ehrnst Aug 2018 #196

Blahous' "alternate reality" projections are riddled with mathematical flaws all skewed Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #197

Trying to change the topic is not working. ehrnst Aug 2018 #198

Fact check is wrong and misrepresenting what Bernie actually stated and from your Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #199

If trying to split hairs between ehrnst Aug 2018 #200

Binary is trashing a message simply because you don't like the source Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #201

"they didn't like the growing popularity of Medicare for All. " ehrnst Aug 2018 #202

What, no comment on the LA Times article that I just posted? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #203

I commented on the LA times article already on this thread. ehrnst Aug 2018 #204

I was going to reply directly to dawg, but your response is better than I came up with. JHan Aug 2018 #212

Ah, I see that accusing the media of being "fake news" when they report something about your ehrnst Aug 2018 #153

Your assumption is incorrect. dawg Aug 2018 #169

Well, I think that my representation of your assumption is more correct than your representation. ehrnst Aug 2018 #173

In other words, you're gonna believe what you want to believe, no matter what I say. dawg Aug 2018 #178

In the same way you are going to believe what you want to about ehrnst Aug 2018 #180

Damn ... dawg Aug 2018 #182

I simply said that yes, Obama did not tell the truth about that, and yes, the ramifications were ehrnst Aug 2018 #183

Sanders criticized the Urban Institute too SteveMO Aug 2018 #179

There is no tolerance for dissent with Sanders. ehrnst Aug 2018 #184

So facts are "centrist" now. ehrnst Aug 2018 #154

The "facts" are on Bernie's side. (In this instance) dawg Aug 2018 #170

No, the study author states those are not the conclusions the study reached. ehrnst Aug 2018 #174

Do you deny that the numbers Sanders cited were reflected in the study? dawg Aug 2018 #181

Well, seeing as Tapper has changed that part of the argument, and the conclusion is still the same. ehrnst Aug 2018 #186

This study does not support sanders' claims Gothmog Aug 2018 #125

#BernieMath...nt SidDithers Aug 2018 #256

lol Cha Aug 2018 #263