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ehrnst

(32,640 posts)

154. And Medicare for All promises WAY more than Medicare does, & will as such, cost more than Medicare.

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:35 PM

Aug 2018

Most countries use a combination of payers, and private entities to deliver care, because sometimes you contract out things that the federal government isn't set up to do.

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So where will the extra $16 trillion come from to pay for Sanders' plan? [View all] dansolo Aug 2018 OP

Exactly my thinking. berines day has come and gone. Now w this tax cut, the gop Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #1

Increase the taxes on the wealthy. That's always been the answer. Eyeball_Kid Aug 2018 #176

Tax Sugar Grease And Processed Food Like We Should PaulX2 Aug 2018 #2

You do know that the soda tax failed, right? ehrnst Aug 2018 #91

Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #113

Yeah! We should just let them DIIIEEE!! Horrible fatties!!!!! Adrahil Aug 2018 #133

Absolutely Not - I Am Obese And Trying To Diet Every Day - Provide Them / Us With Care PaulX2 Aug 2018 #135

That's not what I took from your reply there.... Adrahil Aug 2018 #136

It's disappointing that Sanders can't seem to level with people on the costs. stopbush Aug 2018 #3

US healthcare is the most expensive in the world. Implement a European model and Doodley Aug 2018 #8

Not true. stopbush Aug 2018 #14

Scrap the overcharging. Scrap the excessive profits. Scrap the insurance scam. Scrap all the Doodley Aug 2018 #39

Even if one stipulates to your points, none of that will happen at once or overnight. stopbush Aug 2018 #48

I don't get your resistance to having a more efficient system that means healthcare is Doodley Aug 2018 #60

Who is being resistent? I am for universal care, but we need to have an HONEST stopbush Aug 2018 #62

It took Europe and Canada 70 years to get where it is, and they were starting on a clean slate. ehrnst Aug 2018 #140

Indeed. But anger gets more voters, always has. ehrnst Aug 2018 #141

The health care delivery system and it's funding are in an economic ecosystem. ehrnst Aug 2018 #139

But of course, nobody is paying anything for healthcare now? rgbecker Aug 2018 #49

Thank you for making my point for me when it cones to the 7.5% payroll tax. stopbush Aug 2018 #57

I don't know if you can just multiply by 4 TheFarseer Aug 2018 #53

Older people don't have babies. Do you know what the costs are for having a baby? stopbush Aug 2018 #61

And younger people rarely have heart attacks. Mariana Aug 2018 #118

I have borderline type 2 diabetes. My medication costs me around $10 for a 3-month supply. stopbush Aug 2018 #121

You would not need to increase Medicare spending, and thus the Medicare tax four-fold VMA131Marine Aug 2018 #56

And don't forget Medicare only pays 80%. What about the other 20%? brush Aug 2018 #66

Hold on, let me see, so that would increase my FICA tax by about 40 bucks a month... Humanist_Activist Aug 2018 #67

Did you calculate in the $134 a month you'd be paying in Medicare premiums? stopbush Aug 2018 #75

Actually, I would be paying into Medicare about 150 dollars a month, versus... Humanist_Activist Aug 2018 #78

The average monthly Medicare premium is $134 for 2018. stopbush Aug 2018 #81

I would be paying well over double my premium if my fiancee were on my insurance... Humanist_Activist Aug 2018 #86

And Medicare for All promises WAY more than Medicare does, & will as such, cost more than Medicare. ehrnst Aug 2018 #154

Another variable will be the mandate that all workers at every age level stopbush Aug 2018 #161

I know. I think it's a combination of being overly confident of one's skills in economics ehrnst Aug 2018 #162

Cafe Hayek? melman Aug 2018 #163

It was the clearest image I found in a quick google search of images. ehrnst Aug 2018 #189

Wow melman Aug 2018 #193

I guess if you need to see something nefarious, you will. ehrnst Aug 2018 #194

As I said melman Aug 2018 #195

Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #196

Oh good, a guilt by association! Cary Aug 2018 #204

AT a time when the ONLY conversation should be ELECT Democrats NO MATTER WHAT Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #203

The group covered by Medicare has the highest medical expense Cary Aug 2018 #111

So? That's only one factor in the larger picture. stopbush Aug 2018 #114

So I question your extrapolation Cary Aug 2018 #117

You're math is oversimplified TheRealNorth Aug 2018 #155

but you and your employer would not be paying insurance premiums scarytomcat Aug 2018 #164

Not accurate. Employer and employee will both pay higher FICA taxes stopbush Aug 2018 #165

we don't know yet how it would be paid for scarytomcat Aug 2018 #175

That's my point about the plan Sanders has put forward. stopbush Aug 2018 #178

When you say we pay as much as nations with better healthcare stopbush Aug 2018 #52

We pay more in taxes alone than the UK pays in TOTAL for healthvare. Doctors in the UK are Doodley Aug 2018 #58

Do you have a source for those claims? stopbush Aug 2018 #63

You know how long it took for any "European model" - whichever of the of the several ehrnst Aug 2018 #94

Which European model should be used? George II Aug 2018 #160

"European style health insurance" is a myth anyway DFW Aug 2018 #12

I know that. I used a shorthand. So sue me. stopbush Aug 2018 #13

That's not a problem DFW Aug 2018 #15

Is that simply a concern born of guesswork? LanternWaste Aug 2018 #51

Remember "You can keep your health care policy?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #97

Not my concern. Yours, apparently. DFW Aug 2018 #115

I'm expecting to here Lugenpresse! any minute now. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #150

Yep. Words matter. Remember "You can keep your health care policy?" ehrnst Aug 2018 #96

Oh, yes. The extremist right adores whataboutism. DFW Aug 2018 #116

And SkyDancer Aug 2018 #17

There is no such thing as a "German system" DFW Aug 2018 #33

And my wife's parents were bankrupted by the American heathcare system. My wife would be Doodley Aug 2018 #40

It's not 16 trillion extra, it's 2 trillion less over 10 years Fiendish Thingy Aug 2018 #4

B-I-N-G-O --------- WE HAVE A WINNER !!!!!!!!!!!! groundloop Aug 2018 #45

Not to mention, with EVERYONE covered and getting proper medical care TexasBushwhacker Aug 2018 #64

How does M4A pay for OB/Prenatal and Pediatric Care? forthemiddle Aug 2018 #102

That is what the mandate was supposed to accomplish. Laying the groundwork. ehrnst Aug 2018 #142

"And, they could always cut the defense budget in half " ehrnst Aug 2018 #100

"Cutting the defense budget in half" ehrnst Aug 2018 #151

Of course it would have to be phased in Fiendish Thingy Aug 2018 #166

What's the big deal? NoSmoke Aug 2018 #5

The big deal? GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #9

You are wrong. Taxes would not increase dramatically. The UK spends about HALF per person Doodley Aug 2018 #11

I don't think the U.K. model is a good one to use Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #24

I agree, but it isn't "broke" and health outcomes are better than in America. Doodley Aug 2018 #36

Things like infant mortality rates are not good benchmarks Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #37

Are you trying to argue that America is getting value for money out of its healthcare Doodley Aug 2018 #42

No Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #47

Well said. CanSocDem Aug 2018 #44

May be but keep in mind NoSmoke Aug 2018 #65

Much of that is what I posted above Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #69

So taxes are less in the UK? GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #35

Taxes that go toward healthcare in the UK are less than taxes that go toward healthcare Doodley Aug 2018 #38

The only taxes I pay for health care is what I pay for Medicare GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #122

Are you saying your taxes don't help to pay for Medicare AND Medicaid? Your taxes go towards Doodley Aug 2018 #206

We all pay taxes for the subsidies that are paid to private companies Autumn Aug 2018 #207

The UK has a much smaller population, and have been tweaking and adjusting ehrnst Aug 2018 #191

Ever heard of economy of scale? Are you arguing against a system Doodley Aug 2018 #205

We are not the UK. ehrnst Aug 2018 #138

Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #183

So you're basically saying SkyDancer Aug 2018 #20

You obviously did not read my reply carefully GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #34

"It often times leads back to the health care lobby & big pharma lobby." ehrnst Aug 2018 #70

It does SkyDancer Aug 2018 #73

I'm supporting evidence based policies, thanks! ehrnst Aug 2018 #76

Hey that's great! I do too! SkyDancer Aug 2018 #82

Then you should share that side of you more often! ehrnst Aug 2018 #89

I share it a lot SkyDancer Aug 2018 #92

I didn't say he was. ehrnst Aug 2018 #103

LOL!@ehrnst! Cha Aug 2018 #169

Speaking of reinventing. George II Aug 2018 #71

...... ehrnst Aug 2018 #80

IT IS NOT TIME. It is so bad a time to argue Hortensis Aug 2018 #185

IT IS THE TIME SkyDancer Aug 2018 #187

I think you are naming the wrong thing the "shiny object" here. ehrnst Aug 2018 #188

Because they started 70 years ago, and expanded gradually as medicine did ehrnst Aug 2018 #101

i don't think he has a plan yet JI7 Aug 2018 #6

That $32.8 trillion is obviously wrong. Deduct two trillion per year, the government already pays, Doodley Aug 2018 #7

So you expect perfect implementation Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #25

Are there any other nations of 320+ million people who do this? George II Aug 2018 #74

If you add the savings from medical marijuana to the revenue from taxing the Clinton foundation ucrdem Aug 2018 #10

How do we pay for it SkyDancer Aug 2018 #16

A.fucking.men! Duppers Aug 2018 #18

It is rather odd SkyDancer Aug 2018 #19

+1 CentralMass Aug 2018 #27

So many reasons. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #30

This Hekate Aug 2018 #54

So many reasons? SkyDancer Aug 2018 #79

The reaction by many to any factchecking or dissent from their leader's statments ehrnst Aug 2018 #106

They are terrified he will be vetted. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #108

The lack of transparency on finances is especially troubling. ehrnst Aug 2018 #110

You sound scared that Bernie may run in 2020 SkyDancer Aug 2018 #119

Of course Sanders will run in 2020. ehrnst Aug 2018 #126

Where did Ehrnst ever say she wanted to tear down Single Payer.. JHan Aug 2018 #167

Yet another silly, pointless false dillema from Skydancer. ehrnst Aug 2018 #200

The only scary thing about Bernie is his ability to fuck shit up for Democrats. MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #107

Yes like bringing in more young voters SkyDancer Aug 2018 #120

"More than most" who... Republicans? ehrnst Aug 2018 #128

+++the hyprocisy stinks. JHan Aug 2018 #168

Exactly! Cha Aug 2018 #171

"Everything is on his website. You should check that out. It goes into depth too!" George II Aug 2018 #109

No link to the actual bill. ehrnst Aug 2018 #112

is there an actual bill ? JI7 Aug 2018 #124

Yes. ehrnst Aug 2018 #125

+1000. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #104

Thank You, MrsCoffee.. and Cha Aug 2018 #170

You mean like accusing reputable fact check orgs of being "fake news" ehrnst Aug 2018 #137

+1 uponit7771 Aug 2018 #21

It's going to have to be worked out by legislators. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #23

Indeed. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #105

One new aircraft carrier costs 14 billion dollars. Shemp Howard Aug 2018 #32

Charles & David's Little Helpers are very busy! n/t QC Aug 2018 #41

Care to elaborate? Are you saying things go better with Koch? Hekate Aug 2018 #55

Yes, they are trying to say it without "saying it." ehrnst Aug 2018 #143

..... ehrnst Aug 2018 #144

Look in the mirror. Cha Aug 2018 #172

Ah, the ol' MIC complaint. Two simple questions: George II Aug 2018 #93

Yup.. disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #95

Actually, no, "how do we pay for it?" is the question that Democrats ask ehrnst Aug 2018 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author NCTraveler Aug 2018 #22

HR 676 has funding details built into the legislation. lapucelle Aug 2018 #26

Look at the Koch-study that supports his plan: DetlefK Aug 2018 #28

The Mercatus study doesn't support his plan. ehrnst Aug 2018 #145

I haven't been following this particular thread, but the obvious answer is taxes. Vinca Aug 2018 #29

Please stop peddling right-wing talking points. Ace Rothstein Aug 2018 #31

Please stop smearing anyone who questions a bill as "peddling right wing talking points" ehrnst Aug 2018 #149

Free stuff without a plan is Sander's specialty. nt LexVegas Aug 2018 #43

Paying good money for things... CanSocDem Aug 2018 #46

+1 SkyDancer Aug 2018 #85

Right now, millions of taxpayers without children are paying for K-12 education. David__77 Aug 2018 #130

Most countries... CanSocDem Aug 2018 #131

I think both are good investments. David__77 Aug 2018 #132

Unicorns who fart rainbows, where else? Hekate Aug 2018 #50

It could easily come from raising taxes on the rich to the same Squinch Aug 2018 #59

Bernie already tried that option dansolo Aug 2018 #68

Would you stop this disinformation & conservative talking points? SkyDancer Aug 2018 #87

He doesn't link to the actual bill. Not surprised. ehrnst Aug 2018 #147

Really? Gothmog Aug 2018 #152

I look forward to you explaining SkyDancer Aug 2018 #173

But you claimed that bernie's plan is perfect and that this plan has all of the details filled is Gothmog Aug 2018 #186

However, if there was ever a state that was friendly to single payer, wouldn't it be the one that ehrnst Aug 2018 #190

That's not "how it's paid for", those are sweep generalities. George II Aug 2018 #159

Or some other source. Reducing military spending, etc. I have no problem paying more for Squinch Aug 2018 #90

no, rest of us would have to pay more also . this is why Vermont and other States never went through JI7 Aug 2018 #123

No, it wouldn't SkyDancer Aug 2018 #127

Actually no, they didn't quite support Sanders's claims ehrnst Aug 2018 #148

Your guess is as good as mine. George II Aug 2018 #72

Printing press is working fine at140 Aug 2018 #77

Funny. Rand Paul says the same exact thing. SkyDancer Aug 2018 #174

It is sad, not funny! at140 Aug 2018 #181

You "concern" is duly noted.... vi5 Aug 2018 #83

"You can keep your health insurance policy!" ehrnst Aug 2018 #153

Who said that? n/t theaocp Aug 2018 #179

Obama. 2012. ehrnst Aug 2018 #180

Meanwhile BigMin28 Aug 2018 #84

Michael Hiltzik of the LA Times holds forth on this very question: CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2018 #88

That article does not address funding dansolo Aug 2018 #129

+1000. It's an editorial, and not a fact checking journalist. ehrnst Aug 2018 #146

Follow along now DiverDave Aug 2018 #98

Follow along now... ehrnst Aug 2018 #156

Im sorry, I wasnt clear DiverDave Aug 2018 #198

Ah, yes. ehrnst Aug 2018 #199

I lulz'd KG Aug 2018 #99

Sander ALWAYS hand-waves the money. Adrahil Aug 2018 #134

There is no way to rebuild from the ground up without wrecking health care delivery. ehrnst Aug 2018 #157

I suggest the military budget. roody Aug 2018 #158

The money can come from right here. ZX86 Aug 2018 #177

Alinsky irony mikehiggins Aug 2018 #182

Most employers would probably love to lose that obligation. ucrdem Aug 2018 #184

Will you guys please fucking stop? A HERETIC I AM Aug 2018 #197

May I suggest the "ignore feature" ehrnst Aug 2018 #201

Thanks for the tip..... A HERETIC I AM Aug 2018 #202