General Discussion

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)

87. The Electoral College performs none of the functions you suggest.

Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:46 PM

Aug 2012

It has never done any of these things. In a few cases, the arbitrary mathematics of the EC incidentally yielded results different from the popular vote. these had nothing to do with coalitions built to make this happen, or any action by the electors in the EC, or any human agency whatsoever. You are describing fantasy ideals that have never corresponded to any real event in 230 years of empirical reality.

The EC has never worked in the fashion intended by the Dead Men of 1787. They thought the EC would be a collection of elite personages capable of making their own decisions, if need be going against "the mob." This does not happen, however. Only a handful of electors have ever gone against the candidate to whom they are pledged.

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The Presidency should be decided by popular vote (or not?) [View all] CreekDog Aug 2012 OP

The Electoral College customerserviceguy Aug 2012 #1

don't tell us what we can't accomplish. CreekDog Aug 2012 #3

Don't tell me what I can't do! RZM Aug 2012 #7

What will happen is a transition period Warpy Aug 2012 #30

All that's going to do customerserviceguy Aug 2012 #32

"Give red parts of blue states to Republicans" (FTFY) Warpy Aug 2012 #57

Should be selected by the Senate Yeah Its Spin Aug 2012 #2

By DU. TheCowsCameHome Aug 2012 #4

Popular Vote, Sir, Should Determine The Election Of the President The Magistrate Aug 2012 #5

I'm surprised that there are so many votes against the idea CreekDog Aug 2012 #9

depends on how you view your vote Johonny Aug 2012 #10

This I agree with. Lone_Star_Dem Aug 2012 #6

The question of fairness needs a judging criteria to be defined. ManiacJoe Aug 2012 #8

There should not be a president. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #11

Well said! We have a very tribal hierarchal system prone to corruption and RKP5637 Aug 2012 #20

This post deserves to be an OP. n/t white_wolf Aug 2012 #23

+1,000,000 Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #68

Ideally, yes. But it would put several reliable Red States up for sale... VOX Aug 2012 #12

What you're really saying is that the Electoral College is not the worst problem. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #26

Fairer? FBaggins Aug 2012 #13

I've seen that argument more than most of the others RZM Aug 2012 #15

people vote, not dirt CreekDog Aug 2012 #16

Nobody is arguing that dirt votes RZM Aug 2012 #18

a person's vote in one state should count the same as a person elsewhere CreekDog Aug 2012 #21

We are not a "democracy", we are a representative republic. n/t X_Digger Aug 2012 #22

which is why I didn't use the word "democracy"...that said, we should be "democratic"... CreekDog Aug 2012 #24

No, it's a balance between the principles. X_Digger Aug 2012 #35

You do realize that's a right wing talking point, correct? white_wolf Aug 2012 #25

Not really, no. Unless you think the founders were right wingers. X_Digger Aug 2012 #36

Some of them were fairly conservative. Hamilton comes to mind. white_wolf Aug 2012 #44

You're likely right. X_Digger Aug 2012 #47

Even in a true democracy you could have a bill of rights. white_wolf Aug 2012 #52

That is a big problem, but not one I think we'll fix with direct elections & proportional senate X_Digger Aug 2012 #54

One think that I think could really help our government is Proportional Representation. white_wolf Aug 2012 #62

Maybe, but then I look at Canada and the Stephen Harper mess. X_Digger Aug 2012 #63

Canada doesn't use Proportional representation. white_wolf Aug 2012 #64

Not proportional, no, but multi-party / coalitions.. X_Digger Aug 2012 #67

Canada is a winner-take-all system. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #86

This "tyranny of the 51 percent" is already what we have. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #72

The United States is a democracy, according to the Constitution of 1787. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #27

When candidates spend more time in Appalachia then Los Angeles taught_me_patience Aug 2012 #38

Fairer to all people because one PERSON in one state would have the same power in another CreekDog Aug 2012 #17

That isn't fairer. FBaggins Aug 2012 #31

Thanks for your science fiction scenario. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #43

Was there any substance at all to that post? FBaggins Aug 2012 #48

Your juvenile, generic dismissal implies that there was. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #59

Lol! FBaggins Aug 2012 #65

O, I am slain! JackRiddler Aug 2012 #70

Ask anyone in the world if they think the electoral college is 'great' or 'democratic' muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #69

Really? ANYONE in the world? FBaggins Aug 2012 #77

"far more into account than just raw vote totals" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #80

Straw man? FBaggins Aug 2012 #81

Most of the states in the USA were never sovereign governments muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #82

Again... that's specifically covered in the Supreme Court ruling. FBaggins Aug 2012 #83

Popular vote. boxman15 Aug 2012 #14

The only reason we had the electoral college in the first place was because of slavery. Puregonzo1188 Aug 2012 #19

How about we decide by an unpopular vote instead? jberryhill Aug 2012 #28

I support the Electoral College, which is based on population anyway. NYC Liberal Aug 2012 #29

I vote for the electoral college. Not because it's better, but because OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #33

If stupid people are the problem... JackRiddler Aug 2012 #45

It is politically impossible to change to a popular vote system. Motown_Johnny Aug 2012 #34

The best part of your post is "Electoral Collage." Thanks. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #46

A typo at 7:54 am, what can I say? Motown_Johnny Aug 2012 #76

I know this isn't a popular stance, but I'm a fence sitter davidpdx Aug 2012 #37

The Electoral College is better. Here's why. Nye Bevan Aug 2012 #39

+1 Kaleva Aug 2012 #40

+1 Very valid points! Bettie Aug 2012 #50

You've come up with the best argument against a popular vote. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #51

Why do our Presidential elections need middlemen? Jefferson and Madison were against this. Zorra Aug 2012 #41

Jefferson owned several hundred slaves and raped the female ones. Nye Bevan Aug 2012 #42

Jefferson was rather hypocritical in that regard. white_wolf Aug 2012 #53

This is also true of most of the framers of the Constitution. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #55

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle too defended the notion of slavery LanternWaste Aug 2012 #74

I have mixed feelings about this after years of arguing with my husband about it. Bettie Aug 2012 #49

You're almost there... JackRiddler Aug 2012 #73

The electoral college is a fucking joke. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #56

If it had anything to do with fucking, it would be a lot funnier. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #60

Both options have positive and negative consequences. MineralMan Aug 2012 #58

Popular vote. It's a common sense approach. nt Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #61

Popular vote, since states are so unequal in population. backscatter712 Aug 2012 #66

I have no real problem with individual states choosing delegates... LanternWaste Aug 2012 #71

Not. Keep the EC. Grave Grumbler Aug 2012 #75

Popular vote, but... FreeJoe Aug 2012 #78

Yes. Like corporations, states are not people. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2012 #79

The electoral college is the two-party answer to having Parliament. - haele Aug 2012 #84

The Electoral College performs none of the functions you suggest. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #87

Shitcan the electoral college. Throd Aug 2012 #85