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Igel

(37,332 posts)

44. And moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation

Reply to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 2, 2018, 12:25 PM

Sep 2018

was issued by the CiC of the army in a conquered and occupied territory, and it applied no further than that and only for the duration of the occupation.

We needed a Constitutional Amendment to make it nationwide and permanent.

It's like that "40 acres and a mule," a wartime order given by a general in a specific area of the occupied territory, done at least partly to get refugees from following his forces and consuming his men's provisions. Remove the context and suddenly there's some huge precedent for doing anything in violation of the Constitution, even as we claim to be the ones upholding the "spirit" of the Constitution. Whatever that means; I've always had a hard time, for example, saying "I'm upholding the spirit of the law by willfully violating it."

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"There's no statute or specific provision of the Constitution that specifically authorizes [View all] Atticus Sep 2018 OP

K&R ck4829 Sep 2018 #1

Those things were all done through constitutional amendments or supreme court decisions htuttle Sep 2018 #2

People love to ignore this. bearsfootball516 Sep 2018 #4

Because its not emotional Kilgore Sep 2018 #7

"It is not enough that we do our best, sometimes we must do Atticus Sep 2018 #5

No, several of them were done by legislation Jim Lane Sep 2018 #47

You are correct. Done within the framework of the Constitution. bitterross Sep 2018 #48

K& R! Nt ecstatic Sep 2018 #3

Jesus Christ these posts are ridiculous manor321 Sep 2018 #6

Yeah, you are right. We are SO-O screwn! Should we just lay down now Atticus Sep 2018 #9

What should we do, in your opinion? bearsfootball516 Sep 2018 #10

I was not aware I had made any specific suggestion beyond doing SOMETHING and Atticus Sep 2018 #20

What is the mechanism for annulling an election ? DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #22

Snark always helps, is that it? Atticus Sep 2018 #26

There is nothing wrong with a little levity, especially when the situation begs for it. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #32

What do you recommend we do to oust Donald Trump right now ? DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #12

You do realize this could happen to us, right? EllieBC Sep 2018 #13

What, exactly, do you suggest we do? The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #14

He's a little vague on that. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #16

Ain't THAT the truth? NurseJackie Sep 2018 #19

I don't know why people take the bait jberryhill Sep 2018 #87

The fact that you don't understand Codeine Sep 2018 #74

All of those things occurred as the result of court decisions, legislation, The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #8

And moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation Igel Sep 2018 #44

I believe the Emancipation Proclamation was issued in 1863, two years before the South was conquered hedda_foil Sep 2018 #126

Y'know, when the birthers argued that the courts could overturn Obama's election onenote Sep 2018 #11

Short memories and high emotions. EllieBC Sep 2018 #15

Outside of impeachment and conviction or resignation it's nigh impossible in our system. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #18

which is what the courts that reached the issue concluded in the birther cases onenote Sep 2018 #23

The OP seems to be suggesting that if enough people protest, SCOTUS will suspend the Constitution. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #24

This wins the most ridiculous mischaracterization award for responses in this thread. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #27

Sir, you are being hoisted on your own petard. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #30

Hoisted? Hardly. Could you point out Atticus Sep 2018 #55

You suggested the election be annulled. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #57

remember, you're arguing there's no provision bigtree Sep 2018 #66

From the article you cited DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #69

quite different than what you've been slamming the op for bigtree Sep 2018 #70

Please cite the Article in the Constitution where it provides for annulments of elections ? DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #71

please provide me the article that says Congress can't interpret the Constitution bigtree Sep 2018 #73

I read what they wrote and I don't find it compelling. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #76

A bill annulling every action taken by Trump would cause chaos onenote Sep 2018 #93

"the sole means"? Where does it say this? Where does it say this is the Atticus Sep 2018 #106

"the sole means"? Where does it say this? Where does it say this is the Atticus Sep 2018 #107

Is there another means spelled out (apart from the 25th amendment)? onenote Sep 2018 #109

Travel deductions for corporations world wide wally Sep 2018 #17

It really behooves the original poster to share with us his plan to oust a sitting president DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #21

I have posted a suggestion above, but it is just one. If I understand your position Atticus Sep 2018 #25

Please point to an Amendment or Article in the Constitution that provides for an election annullment DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #28

It Did you read the OP and my subsequent responses? Atticus Sep 2018 #59

It has nothing to do with conservatism, faith or feelings. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #63

Did I miss the word "only" in that text? nt Atticus Sep 2018 #83

The method for impeaching DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #84

you're right bigtree Sep 2018 #29

There is a huge difference DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #31

just stop bigtree Sep 2018 #35

It's cynical to posit scenarios that have no chance of materializing. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Sep 2018 #37

sad. bigtree Sep 2018 #38

There is nothing in my comments that suggest I oppose activism. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #39

you made that perfectly clear bigtree Sep 2018 #40

I'm not trying to be contentious. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #41

no mechanism, true bigtree Sep 2018 #42

My friend. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #43

Some are impatient. Igel Sep 2018 #46

I saw a thread agitating in favor of a military coup or at least ruminating about one. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #49

pragmatism?? qazplm135 Sep 2018 #51

hyperbole bigtree Sep 2018 #52

it's a great word qazplm135 Sep 2018 #61

Not sure this OP doesn't recognize this ad KPN Sep 2018 #99

The Constitution allows for impeachment of justices DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #100

Geez, Tough Crowd Charlotte Little Sep 2018 #64

The Constitution is imperfect but it offers the possibility of amending itself. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #67

Do you not realize that anyone who can read can easily see Atticus Sep 2018 #79

I didn't make anything up. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #82

I understand your reluctance to deal in facts. At this point, please declare yourelf my superior Atticus Sep 2018 #85

More ad hominems DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #89

Thank you. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #102

Thank you. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #97

None of those things were specifically forbidden by the Constitution. NYC Liberal Sep 2018 #33

Typical rightwing ignorance. J_William_Ryan Sep 2018 #34

you have it exactly reversed qazplm135 Sep 2018 #53

I had to read the post you are responding to twice. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #56

this thread is filled qazplm135 Sep 2018 #62

I am a believer in a world after this one. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #65

The Constitution provides "A" method to remove a legitimately elected POTUS. Disregarding for the Atticus Sep 2018 #68

So basically qazplm135 Sep 2018 #95

If it makes you feel better to say that's what I said, knock yourself out. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #96

lol qazplm135 Sep 2018 #127

This thread reminds me of the thread where a poster DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #112

You want Trump out earlier than 2021? JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2018 #45

The Constitution mentions 5 ways sarisataka Sep 2018 #50

Congress interprets provisions of the Constitution from time to time bigtree Sep 2018 #54

Congress does not interpret sarisataka Sep 2018 #88

And if they pass a law that SCOTUS feels is outside the Constitution SCOTUS can overrule it. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #90

Exactly, sarisataka Sep 2018 #98

This is basic citizenship stuff. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #103

UNREC brooklynite Sep 2018 #58

And, of course, the Constitution is a static document, right? How it is interpreted Atticus Sep 2018 #75

It is a dynamic document that gets modified by a static provision covering how it gets modified. brooklynite Sep 2018 #77

If you believe you just made sense, that's one. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #81

No need to attack your interlocutor DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #91

Well DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #60

As clearly stated in the OP, these were examples of changes that no one thought Atticus Sep 2018 #72

"Yet, somehow, they "got did". " DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #78

Well, of course, sir. If YOU say so. That's exactly what the OP suggested: Atticus Sep 2018 #80

The 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments came about solely because of a civil war... First Speaker Sep 2018 #94

qazplm135 nailed it DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #101

Important consideration, thanks for stating. Ponietz Sep 2018 #108

By changing things we can avoid this in the future.. nini Sep 2018 #86

Step 1: Work towards election day. Step 2: After election day, evaluate options struggle4progress Sep 2018 #92

No one claims that, but Progressive dog Sep 2018 #104

I guess if the Dems had super majorities in Congress DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #110

Difficult to imagine, I understand, but these are things that it was "understood" would Atticus Sep 2018 #111

The US was one of the last places Progressive dog Sep 2018 #113

Your opinion is based on "the framers" assuming slavery would "fade away". Atticus Sep 2018 #114

The last I knew, there were no opinion polls then Progressive dog Sep 2018 #115

Lot's of references to the founders' views Progressive dog Sep 2018 #117

And none support your broad characterization that "the founders", generally Atticus Sep 2018 #119

"Broad characterization" from someone who wrote Progressive dog Sep 2018 #122

I can understand why you'd rather play "waddabout" than actually respond to what was said. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #123

Oy vey DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #124

It's known as projection Progressive dog Sep 2018 #128

Take two examples from the list of miracles. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #116

I'll add myself to the list of people telling you how silly this comparison is mythology Sep 2018 #105

Ok. nt Atticus Sep 2018 #118

I'll observe that, in a 12-hour discussion the OP has failed to make any suggestion... brooklynite Sep 2018 #120

Maybe we should clap louder! NurseJackie Sep 2018 #121

Or hold hands and collectively hold our breath. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #125