General Discussion

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)

5. Yes, it's friggin BS. Obviously, don't think the Founders could've have foreseen ...

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 12:22 PM

Nov 2018

The country, under this same founding document, growing to 50 states, with such WILDLY varying population sizes. Not that there weren't larger and smaller states among the original 13 colonies, but I don't think (offhand) any were as different as, say, California and Wyoming. If they had, they probably would've made allowances for some population-size adjustments at the Senate level as well.

Nor did they foresee the eventual power of 'Party' based politics.

But ... it's what we have. At least the POTUS is still REASONABLY close to an 'overall popular vote' position, since Electors at the College are based on population.

So basic reality is ... Dems MUST always win POTUS for the balance of power to ever be 'fair'. Because the Senate is likely to be held by the GOP the vast majority of the time in today's climate, with current demographics.

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Seems that the Senate has become a constitutional suicide pact [View all] Cyrano Nov 2018 OP

We need to do away with the Senate dumbcat Nov 2018 #1

Or have a more proportionate representation? Zambero Nov 2018 #26

This, makes a lot of sense to me! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2018 #37

Actually, that makes a lot of sense Bettie Nov 2018 #45

I was thinking 2-6 tinrobot Nov 2018 #46

Why bother? dumbcat Nov 2018 #58

Yep, the founding fathers never envisioned, nor could they have, this rigged mess we have today. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2018 #2

We must drop the Senate just as the Brits effectively cut off the House of Lords DemocracyMouse Nov 2018 #30

The senate makes no sense to me. Why should states with few residents have as much say as states RKP5637 Nov 2018 #36

Agree, the founders never envisioned radius777 Nov 2018 #60

Exactly: "The current system is bullshit, basically taxation w/o representation." And then add in RKP5637 Nov 2018 #61

Corrupt redistricting is what has made this so problematic... hlthe2b Nov 2018 #3

Gerrymandering and redistricting has nothing to do with the disproportion in the Senate. euphorb Nov 2018 #7

Fully aware, but the overrepresentation of the Senate by low population states is only hlthe2b Nov 2018 #14

Gerrymandering influences the House. Not the Senate. Cyrano Nov 2018 #8

Fully aware, but the overrepresentation of the Senate by low population states is only hlthe2b Nov 2018 #11

The founding father likely did not anticipate election by direct vote of the entire adult populace DBoon Nov 2018 #27

It's fu_ked up all right. Hope in 2020 we get the Senate and kick turtleman to the curb... brush Nov 2018 #4

Turdman is one of the greatest problems going in the senate IMO. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2018 #38

Yes, it's friggin BS. Obviously, don't think the Founders could've have foreseen ... mr_lebowski Nov 2018 #5

No system can last forever marylandblue Nov 2018 #6

So true! lamsmy Nov 2018 #29

Well said IMO!!! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2018 #39

It's incredibly difficult to amend the Constitution Cyrano Nov 2018 #42

Forty million, not four million. ffr Nov 2018 #9

Correct. My bad. I fixed it. Cyrano Nov 2018 #10

The Senate has always been the Great Compromise Azathoth Nov 2018 #12

It's a serious problem zipplewrath Nov 2018 #13

Or we could just order people to move to low population areas MichMan Nov 2018 #22

It's not getting rid of it zipplewrath Nov 2018 #23

it's this way by design. the senate was never meant to represent the people. unblock Nov 2018 #15

I wonder if the founders would give a fig BeyondGeography Nov 2018 #16

the framers would never have dreamed their system would last more than two centuries. unblock Nov 2018 #18

Well said BeyondGeography Nov 2018 #20

In 2020 Dems will gain control of Senate for a long time unc70 Nov 2018 #17

Not according to Nate zipplewrath Nov 2018 #24

Yeah, 2020 doesn't actually look so good. For starters, keeping that Alabama seat will be tough. Garrett78 Nov 2018 #47

Well... 2naSalit Nov 2018 #19

De tocqueville's "tyranny of the majority" was over compensated for. HopeAgain Nov 2018 #28

That means that we will have to make an effort 2naSalit Nov 2018 #59

The Senate was not created sarisataka Nov 2018 #21

Yabbut zipplewrath Nov 2018 #25

So what maybe the number of Senators should be fixed at the ratio of greymattermom Nov 2018 #31

Probably not zipplewrath Nov 2018 #44

DC, PR, VI and Guam statehood would JCMach1 Nov 2018 #32

It's much easier for Democrats to repair relations with rural America YessirAtsaFact Nov 2018 #33

"Deets, not doom," should be a bumper sticker, in your honor. Sam3 Nov 2018 #34

Deets? YessirAtsaFact Nov 2018 #35

ESL IMHO n/t rzemanfl Nov 2018 #51

This, would be an excellent approach IMO. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2018 #40

The Senate was set up this way so that each state has equal representation. CrispyQ Nov 2018 #41

States are not people Cyrano Nov 2018 #43

Can there be a Senate that represents the majority? No. Garrett78 Nov 2018 #48

Yep. The constitution needs fixing. Cyrano Nov 2018 #49

This very problem is why Republicans would have an easier time amending the Constitution. Garrett78 Nov 2018 #50

The senate math could be corrected by adding states standingtall Nov 2018 #52

Yes. Would really like to see Puerto Rico push for statehood Cyrano Nov 2018 #53

Senators are supposed to represent their states Buckeyeblue Nov 2018 #54

The Senate works just as intended acting to maintain the status quo pecosbob Nov 2018 #55

Not exactly Maven Nov 2018 #57

Yes, we have a Constitution that is now serving to impose minority rule on the population Maven Nov 2018 #56