General Discussion

Swagman

(1,934 posts)

18. the answer to that is

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 09:23 PM

Aug 2012

Assange has always said that he would return to Sweden to face questioning.

He wants some sort of government re-assurance he will not be extradited to a third country and as I know you always pay attention, you will be aware that many foreign citizens have been bundled onto planes in third countries and ended up languishing in GITMO.

No re-assurance will be given by the right wing Swedish government.

Therefore he has a genuine fear and Ecuador- and again I know that you respect them- has accepted that fear.

There is one thing I think you may not be aware of: the dominating right-wing Swedish media has run a shocking campaign of denigration of Julian Assange almost weekly ala in the style of Fox News.

FACT : the right wing prosecutor driving this matter (the Swedish chief prosecutor is on record as saying the 'charges' would not be sustainable in a Swedish court) has a murky history of involvement with Karl Rove

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So Let Me Get This Straight !!! - Re: Julian Assange [View all] WillyT Aug 2012 OP

The fact that shrub and darth cheney are walking free in this country balances the 2on2u Aug 2012 #1

And KKKarl Dont call me Shirley Aug 2012 #121

Yes, I do think. I always have. PDJane Aug 2012 #2

It has a strong odor to it. russspeakeasy Aug 2012 #7

Then he has to face the rape charge, defend himself with counsel, and stand up for himself. Swamp Lover Aug 2012 #3

Then by all means let's make sure Assange can go back to SWEDEN to defend himself and not be.... Raster Aug 2012 #6

Maybe We Could Have All Concerned Parties Meet At The Hague, And Then... WillyT Aug 2012 #8

I'd be all for it...however, I don't think that's a bet the US wants to cover. Raster Aug 2012 #10

Actually the women said he did not rape them, they had sex without a condem. which somehow got chan robinlynne Aug 2012 #9

You do realize that each country is allowed to make it's own definition of rape, right? jeff47 Aug 2012 #24

Yeah... But It Sure Comes In Handy To Muddy The Waters... WillyT Aug 2012 #29

Yeah, those dumb women should just take the load, right? jeff47 Aug 2012 #36

I'm Not Sure Putting The Sarcasm Thingy Gets You Off The Hook... WillyT Aug 2012 #51

as alwasy, thansk willyt for saying it for me. robinlynne Aug 2012 #69

You do realize I was attacking your "it's not rape" position, right? (nt) jeff47 Aug 2012 #81

IT's NOT RAPE. That is not only my position, but reality. RAPE did not happen. Noone alleges that ra robinlynne Aug 2012 #95

Thank you. klook Aug 2012 #96

Blurs the definition of rape. The alleged behavior occurred during/after consensual sex leveymg Aug 2012 #102

and the police tried to change the record of the testimony six days after it was made. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #184

Thanks for linking that. According the unaltered account, it becomes clear it wan't rape leveymg Aug 2012 #200

No, actually, rape is what is alleged. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #106

Except the women themselves aren't calling it rape, nor did they want to press charges riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #107

You're very much mistaken Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #108

hahahaha fascisthunter Aug 2012 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2012 #126

I'll take the words of the women over anyone else's. riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #116

surrrre.... fascisthunter Aug 2012 #128

Several decades as a rape crisis counselor and advocate riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #129

I think you are full of it... you? fascisthunter Aug 2012 #130

You don't know unless you are the person whose experienced it riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #133

And it's the Swedish state tama Aug 2012 #238

PLease. the victim who went back and had sex with him again a few days later? give me a break. robinlynne Aug 2012 #157

More than one allegation, more than one woman involved, and no, she didn't Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #160

Maybe because she didn't say that was what happened. There was no second intercourse, HiPointDem Aug 2012 #163

This would be "Miss W" I am speaking of. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #165

It didn't happen quite like that. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #167

You seem to have reading comprehension issues Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #169

she had already by her own admission allowed sex without a correctly placed condom -- without HiPointDem Aug 2012 #170

Allowing sex without a condom != allowing sex without one. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #173

she had already allowed sex without a condom by her own admission. a condom placed only on the HiPointDem Aug 2012 #175

With a woman you met mere days before? Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #179

no with *men.* i'm a woman, i *have* been raped, and this ain't rape. it's a woman, not under HiPointDem Aug 2012 #181

what does the fact that she met him days before have to do with it? all the 4 episodes of HiPointDem Aug 2012 #182

Holy crap! I had no idea the case was that flimsy, but *still* thought it was politically motivated LaydeeBug Aug 2012 #227

what is the 'rape' in the case of ms. A? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #168

Have I said there was one? Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #171

what is the sexual assault and molestation? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #172

You claim to have read the police interviews and the rest of the info Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #174

i don't see any sexual assault or molestation in her description. you do. what is it? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #176

You have some facts wrong brush Aug 2012 #189

Some of your statements may be wrong. Watch this video brush Aug 2012 #195

the lawyer is himself under investigation. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #162

nowhere in their testimony do they say they were raped. nowhere in their testimony is anything HiPointDem Aug 2012 #178

"woke up to find him penetrating me" = rape. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #180

sorry, it ain't once you've already had sex three times the same night -- unless you say "no". HiPointDem Aug 2012 #183

It is under Swedish law. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #197

Wow, you really are just impervious to reality. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #201

Except she apparently did, according to published newspaper reports. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #204

no, it's not. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #213

Again, your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #214

lol. it ain't just my opinion, buster. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #216

The opinion of the Swedish prosecutor and the UK high court is that there's a case to answer. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #219

yes, i figured you for that. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #220

Pls watch this video. Your facts are wrong brush Aug 2012 #194

Actually, rape is not being alleged. Xithras Aug 2012 #114

No, rape is in fact being alleged. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #115

Assange has not yet been formally charged with any offence. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #164

A prosecution is underway. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #166

yeah, well, i'm pretty sure why *you* can't grasp that no rape occurred & the women aren't HiPointDem Aug 2012 #185

I disagree. mattclearing Aug 2012 #118

I'm sorry, Matt. Matt is it? A man? If the woman says its not rape, its not rape riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #125

What does that have to do with what I said? mattclearing Aug 2012 #138

You said the situation could "become rape". But the women involved say no rape riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #139

I also said I don't what happened and such a situation could become rape. mattclearing Aug 2012 #140

there's a high percentage of men on this thread saying it was rape. kind of funny. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #187

That would all work out, if they had not denied the charges. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #76

So much wrong. jeff47 Aug 2012 #82

Yes, they denied the charges of rape. Not only that, but their own sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #88

Sweden's rape laws are not US rape laws. jeff47 Aug 2012 #90

Wrong regarding Iraq. The rapes and tortures and murder occurred while the US sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #91

Thank-you! robinlynne Aug 2012 #98

Your facts are wrong. Get informed. Watch this video brush Aug 2012 #193

If you read the other Assange threads, you will find the same names over and over again, 1monster Aug 2012 #196

Agendas brush Aug 2012 #198

+1 HiPointDem Aug 2012 #236

No, you're asking for the video to make my mind up for me. jeff47 Aug 2012 #207

The women don't call it rape, they didn't want to press charges riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #30

And Do Not Forget This... WillyT Aug 2012 #32

Then the case would fall apart and he has nothing to fear from Sweden. jeff47 Aug 2012 #37

I don't think he's particularly afraid of extradition........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2012 #43

We'd do that from the UK jeff47 Aug 2012 #44

You are naive, or have your head in the sand. Even the Australian government has said that the US robinlynne Aug 2012 #99

He's not working hard not to have a trial. He remained in Sweden sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #109

You are ignorant of extradition protocols. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #124

It sounds like they plan on filing charges to me. ronnie624 Aug 2012 #159

and it is not rape in Sweden- it is 'sexual misconduct'- a far lesser charge Swagman Aug 2012 #38

My understanding is the translation from Swedish can mean either. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2012 #40

Except the women themselves aren't calling it rape, nor did they want to press charges riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #45

Then there's no case against him and he has nothing to fear from Sweden. jeff47 Aug 2012 #46

Since Sweden has participated in extra judicial with the US riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #49

Ok, now try reading what I actually wrote. jeff47 Aug 2012 #83

Read what I wrote, "its clearly got precedent happening from Sweden, not the UK." nt riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #103

Did you miss that part about giving him over with a gift bow? jeff47 Aug 2012 #143

ffs it's been explaied to you that the UK will not extradite to a country with the death penalty.. frylock Aug 2012 #205

No, they will happily extradite as long as the prosecutors agree not to seek the death penalty. jeff47 Aug 2012 #208

"Nothing To Fear" WillyT Aug 2012 #50

Again, either they're following the rules jeff47 Aug 2012 #84

The point is to (1) discredit him and (2) get rid of him. US has nothing with which to charge him.nt ieoeja Aug 2012 #78

He already discredited himself when he fucked over the rest of wikileaks jeff47 Aug 2012 #85

That's a cogent analysis of this case. I'm sure he, and most public figures btw, have sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #119

So you know nothing of what used to be Wikileaks then? jeff47 Aug 2012 #141

You really are unaware of DOJ requests to Twitter sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #144

I'm mocking you for the conspiracy theory angle. jeff47 Aug 2012 #145

Take your mockery and bring it to a non-democratic board. Mockery is not a progressive sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #147

Oh please jeff47 Aug 2012 #151

You don't like the facts, I get it. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #155

You don't get it tama Aug 2012 #239

So your complaint is the DOJ is following the law? jeff47 Aug 2012 #242

no one said he's a saint. he sounds like a royal asshole, in fact. him being an asshole doesn't HiPointDem Aug 2012 #186

Yet you refuse to belive he could have raped someone jeff47 Aug 2012 #209

by the testimony of the women themselves he didn't rape them. did you read it? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #212

Your definition of rape isn't the same as Sweden's. jeff47 Aug 2012 #225

as i've already shown you, rape in sweden = use of force or person unable to give consent. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #226

I notice you very quickly avoided the important question: jeff47 Aug 2012 #228

i notice *you* have ignored everything i've said, including the definition of rape in sweden. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #231

I'm sorry. I know exactly what rape is. Most women do. That is not rape. Rape is terrifying. robinlynne Aug 2012 #71

Once again, each country gets to make it's own definition for rape. jeff47 Aug 2012 #87

It is not rape. Dont call it rape. I dont care what Sweden does.That may be a translation error. robinlynne Aug 2012 #94

Does it matter to you that he denies these allegations? That none of this has sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #123

It's called a mis-translation. caseymoz Aug 2012 #100

But the two women didn't accuse him of sexual assault. Matilda Aug 2012 #136

Watch this video. Some of your facts are wrong brush Aug 2012 #192

bullshit. the definition of rape in sweden is pretty much what it is in the us. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #224

Yes, I understand you don't think it was legitimate rape. jeff47 Aug 2012 #229

which "swede's"? (sic) the ones who said the case didn't rise to rape and closed it, or HiPointDem Aug 2012 #232

IF he's innocent, he doesn't owe anybody anything cpwm17 Aug 2012 #15

the answer to that is Swagman Aug 2012 #18

Don't forget Sweden assisted the US in CIA rendition flights riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #20

Swamp Lover. Should the Blackwater guards who raped the woman (discussed in JDPriestly Aug 2012 #19

Yes. Swamp Lover Aug 2012 #23

oh yes they are Swagman Aug 2012 #34

First, he must be charged. nt tsuki Aug 2012 #22

What rape charges... Luminous Animal Aug 2012 #28

naif datasuspect Aug 2012 #70

there are no charges, and he was "accused" of "rape" for 2 CONSENSUAL sex acts. librechik Aug 2012 #86

There are no charges. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #120

Aussie video on Assange brush Aug 2012 #188

Pls watch this video brush Aug 2012 #191

"The woman who was held hostage and raped by Blackwater/Haliburton didn't get anywhere NEAR... villager Aug 2012 #4

Yes, it tells us Sweden does a much better job of protecting rape victims than Iraq. jeff47 Aug 2012 #27

she was raped by US citizens and as you know they can be prosecuted in the USA for sex crimes abroad Swagman Aug 2012 #39

And this relates to Sweden how? jeff47 Aug 2012 #41

it relates to your claim that Sweden cares for rape victims better than any other country Swagman Aug 2012 #53

You are lying. And stupidly so jeff47 Aug 2012 #142

Whaaaaaaa??? LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #57

Sweden has one of Europe's worst records for investigating rape Swagman Aug 2012 #61

And I'm sure you rushed here to post your umbrage on behalf of Blackwater/US Army victims villager Aug 2012 #63

Sweden may do a much better job of protecting rape victims than Iraq, BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #112

The paternalistic GALL of the Swedish state bringing this case on, against the wishes of the women riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #113

Exactly right! BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #137

Agreed. nt Live and Learn Aug 2012 #153

Du rec. Nt xchrom Aug 2012 #5

K&R! nt whatchamacallit Aug 2012 #11

All good points and yes... ProfessionalLeftist Aug 2012 #12

That's the problem with insanity, it never stops getting worse. If Mickey Spillane had Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #13

Fear of (more) exposure drives governments nuts. Even ones that brand themselves "transparent". Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2012 #14

"Do Not Pay Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain!" WillyT Aug 2012 #16

Also Flatpicker Aug 2012 #17

good heaven05 Aug 2012 #21

great link in the OP n/t RainDog Aug 2012 #25

yes, obviously. threats to storm an embassy over a highly-dubious rape (highly dubious because HiPointDem Aug 2012 #26

Yup truebrit71 Aug 2012 #31

k & friggin r! nt wildbilln864 Aug 2012 #33

an independent nation has concluded that Assange is telling the truth and has reviewed Swagman Aug 2012 #35

"an independent nation has concluded"..... Swamp Lover Aug 2012 #42

I don't think that Assange is worried about any court of law...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2012 #47

Maybe... But Then Again... If The Fed Is Propping Up Half The World... WillyT Aug 2012 #48

it seems like Ecuador is one. Swagman Aug 2012 #55

Right. And "We don't torture" either. vanlassie Aug 2012 #52

you are not factoring the concept of asylum in your desire to Swagman Aug 2012 #54

no TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #56

y u say tiny elvis Aug 2012 #58

which country does this? Swagman Aug 2012 #59

why does TorchTheWitch say 2 contradictory things? tiny elvis Aug 2012 #62

that is not what I said TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #68

If LA wants to interrogate a suspect they extradite him from NY TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #65

I did say what I meant TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #67

Actually, no intaglio Aug 2012 #60

The point is to (1) discredit him and (2) get rid of him. US has nothing with which to charge him.nt ieoeja Aug 2012 #79

You have no clue what you're talking about. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #122

Sweden's last execution was in 1910; Sweden abolished the death penalty in 1920; and Sweden struggle4progress Aug 2012 #152

That doesn't include torture. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #156

Sweden hands over about one person/yr to US; UK hands over about 20 persons/yr struggle4progress Aug 2012 #210

How are you so good at being ignorant of the contents of the discusion you The Doctor. Aug 2012 #237

Add to that... Matariki Aug 2012 #64

The tactic is getting pretty predictable isn't it lunatica Aug 2012 #66

It's pretty obvious. backscatter712 Aug 2012 #74

+1, ...but with high post count uponit7771 Aug 2012 #92

Post removed Post removed Aug 2012 #97

Indeed. Not to *also* mention woo me with science Aug 2012 #154

You think it's suspicious that people in the news get talked about on a news-related webforum? cemaphonic Aug 2012 #158

I am amazed more people aren't seeing right through this. redqueen Aug 2012 #72

This is NOT about rape. This is about someone having the audacity to expose the lies. Raster Aug 2012 #77

Exactly. In rape cases, I take the alleged victims side probably 99.9% of the time. Zorra Aug 2012 #148

Yes I think so as well. Uncle Joe Aug 2012 #73

Rape of the Sabine Women perhaps may be a tad more important to world history AngryAmish Aug 2012 #75

Yes, indeed, very odd. Assange must have something BIG to warrant this kind of attention. Wall St. mother earth Aug 2012 #80

K&R Zorra Aug 2012 #89

Are people immune from all charges right after they commit a crime of which we approve? treestar Aug 2012 #93

*derp* Zorra Aug 2012 #104

So Julian can do no wrong? treestar Aug 2012 #105

No. I just recognize totally obvious bullshit when I see it. Zorra Aug 2012 #146

So you have given in to total cynicism treestar Aug 2012 #150

these two certainly aren't. yet the brits say they'll storm an embassy to get this guy. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #177

But they aren't going to treestar Aug 2012 #199

More baseless personal attack type propaganda with not one single shred of fact to support it. Zorra Aug 2012 #203

Easy. He leaks a bunch of documents. Unlike Ellsberg, no one is prosecuting him for it treestar Aug 2012 #211

I've never seen you so obsessed about alleged rape victims before. Zorra Aug 2012 #223

K & R AzDar Aug 2012 #101

good subject matter to weed out fascisthunter Aug 2012 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2012 #117

notice how quickly your... fascisthunter Aug 2012 #127

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2012 #131

incoming message fascisthunter Aug 2012 #132

Kick... For A 'Special' DUer... WillyT Aug 2012 #134

That's right! He wants us to continue to discuss this topic! backscatter712 Aug 2012 #135

Maybe Sweden takes rape more seriously than our government does? Hippo_Tron Aug 2012 #149

not based on their track record.. frylock Aug 2012 #206

ITT "progressive" DUers try to redefine rape. joshcryer Aug 2012 #161

This video clears up the whole women/Assange matter brush Aug 2012 #190

Thanks! Excellent journalism. However, no amount of fact, reason, or logic, will stop those whose Zorra Aug 2012 #202

Did you actually watch this video? AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #215

what the fuck does any "unspoken bond among women" have to do with the question of whether HiPointDem Aug 2012 #217

a courtesy response AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #218

ridiculous. and bogus. you don't want to deal with what the women actually said because that would HiPointDem Aug 2012 #221

An embassy was stormed? cemaphonic Aug 2012 #230

just threats thus far from england. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #233

That's the point cemaphonic Aug 2012 #234

derecognizing the status of the embassy = ruse to make entering the embassy and snatching HiPointDem Aug 2012 #235

Huh? brush Aug 2012 #222

Rockstar treatment tama Aug 2012 #240

More than mighty suspicious IMO... redqueen Aug 2012 #241