General Discussion

Swagman

(1,934 posts)

35. an independent nation has concluded that Assange is telling the truth and has reviewed

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 10:39 PM

Aug 2012

evidence (whatever it is) and they believe he is at great risk and that the pursuit of the allegations is a cover for other reasons

In doing so they risk the wrath of the USA, UK and Sweden (his homeland has abandoned him) all friendly countries.

Ecuador has done this knowing there could be recriminations which are indicated by the hysteria and bullying of the Foreign Office letter.

At the same time the UK must enforce it's own laws however distasteful they are. (there is a great lesson here : once in this world you could guarantee your safety in your country of residence but now in this globalized atmosphere you can be extradited for 'crimes' that are not crimes where you live).

Overall, given that Ecuador has given Assange refuge it indicates Assange tells the truth however distasteful that is for those who dislike him, believe he is arrogant etc etc.

However now prepare for a racist trashing of Ecuador in the world's media.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

242 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

So Let Me Get This Straight !!! - Re: Julian Assange [View all] WillyT Aug 2012 OP

The fact that shrub and darth cheney are walking free in this country balances the 2on2u Aug 2012 #1

And KKKarl Dont call me Shirley Aug 2012 #121

Yes, I do think. I always have. PDJane Aug 2012 #2

It has a strong odor to it. russspeakeasy Aug 2012 #7

Then he has to face the rape charge, defend himself with counsel, and stand up for himself. Swamp Lover Aug 2012 #3

Then by all means let's make sure Assange can go back to SWEDEN to defend himself and not be.... Raster Aug 2012 #6

Maybe We Could Have All Concerned Parties Meet At The Hague, And Then... WillyT Aug 2012 #8

I'd be all for it...however, I don't think that's a bet the US wants to cover. Raster Aug 2012 #10

Actually the women said he did not rape them, they had sex without a condem. which somehow got chan robinlynne Aug 2012 #9

You do realize that each country is allowed to make it's own definition of rape, right? jeff47 Aug 2012 #24

Yeah... But It Sure Comes In Handy To Muddy The Waters... WillyT Aug 2012 #29

Yeah, those dumb women should just take the load, right? jeff47 Aug 2012 #36

I'm Not Sure Putting The Sarcasm Thingy Gets You Off The Hook... WillyT Aug 2012 #51

as alwasy, thansk willyt for saying it for me. robinlynne Aug 2012 #69

You do realize I was attacking your "it's not rape" position, right? (nt) jeff47 Aug 2012 #81

IT's NOT RAPE. That is not only my position, but reality. RAPE did not happen. Noone alleges that ra robinlynne Aug 2012 #95

Thank you. klook Aug 2012 #96

Blurs the definition of rape. The alleged behavior occurred during/after consensual sex leveymg Aug 2012 #102

and the police tried to change the record of the testimony six days after it was made. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #184

Thanks for linking that. According the unaltered account, it becomes clear it wan't rape leveymg Aug 2012 #200

No, actually, rape is what is alleged. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #106

Except the women themselves aren't calling it rape, nor did they want to press charges riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #107

You're very much mistaken Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #108

hahahaha fascisthunter Aug 2012 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2012 #126

I'll take the words of the women over anyone else's. riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #116

surrrre.... fascisthunter Aug 2012 #128

Several decades as a rape crisis counselor and advocate riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #129

I think you are full of it... you? fascisthunter Aug 2012 #130

You don't know unless you are the person whose experienced it riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #133

And it's the Swedish state tama Aug 2012 #238

PLease. the victim who went back and had sex with him again a few days later? give me a break. robinlynne Aug 2012 #157

More than one allegation, more than one woman involved, and no, she didn't Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #160

Maybe because she didn't say that was what happened. There was no second intercourse, HiPointDem Aug 2012 #163

This would be "Miss W" I am speaking of. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #165

It didn't happen quite like that. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #167

You seem to have reading comprehension issues Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #169

she had already by her own admission allowed sex without a correctly placed condom -- without HiPointDem Aug 2012 #170

Allowing sex without a condom != allowing sex without one. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #173

she had already allowed sex without a condom by her own admission. a condom placed only on the HiPointDem Aug 2012 #175

With a woman you met mere days before? Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #179

no with *men.* i'm a woman, i *have* been raped, and this ain't rape. it's a woman, not under HiPointDem Aug 2012 #181

what does the fact that she met him days before have to do with it? all the 4 episodes of HiPointDem Aug 2012 #182

Holy crap! I had no idea the case was that flimsy, but *still* thought it was politically motivated LaydeeBug Aug 2012 #227

what is the 'rape' in the case of ms. A? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #168

Have I said there was one? Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #171

what is the sexual assault and molestation? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #172

You claim to have read the police interviews and the rest of the info Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #174

i don't see any sexual assault or molestation in her description. you do. what is it? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #176

You have some facts wrong brush Aug 2012 #189

Some of your statements may be wrong. Watch this video brush Aug 2012 #195

the lawyer is himself under investigation. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #162

nowhere in their testimony do they say they were raped. nowhere in their testimony is anything HiPointDem Aug 2012 #178

"woke up to find him penetrating me" = rape. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #180

sorry, it ain't once you've already had sex three times the same night -- unless you say "no". HiPointDem Aug 2012 #183

It is under Swedish law. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #197

Wow, you really are just impervious to reality. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #201

Except she apparently did, according to published newspaper reports. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #204

no, it's not. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #213

Again, your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #214

lol. it ain't just my opinion, buster. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #216

The opinion of the Swedish prosecutor and the UK high court is that there's a case to answer. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #219

yes, i figured you for that. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #220

Pls watch this video. Your facts are wrong brush Aug 2012 #194

Actually, rape is not being alleged. Xithras Aug 2012 #114

No, rape is in fact being alleged. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #115

Assange has not yet been formally charged with any offence. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #164

A prosecution is underway. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #166

yeah, well, i'm pretty sure why *you* can't grasp that no rape occurred & the women aren't HiPointDem Aug 2012 #185

I disagree. mattclearing Aug 2012 #118

I'm sorry, Matt. Matt is it? A man? If the woman says its not rape, its not rape riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #125

What does that have to do with what I said? mattclearing Aug 2012 #138

You said the situation could "become rape". But the women involved say no rape riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #139

I also said I don't what happened and such a situation could become rape. mattclearing Aug 2012 #140

there's a high percentage of men on this thread saying it was rape. kind of funny. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #187

That would all work out, if they had not denied the charges. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #76

So much wrong. jeff47 Aug 2012 #82

Yes, they denied the charges of rape. Not only that, but their own sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #88

Sweden's rape laws are not US rape laws. jeff47 Aug 2012 #90

Wrong regarding Iraq. The rapes and tortures and murder occurred while the US sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #91

Thank-you! robinlynne Aug 2012 #98

Your facts are wrong. Get informed. Watch this video brush Aug 2012 #193

If you read the other Assange threads, you will find the same names over and over again, 1monster Aug 2012 #196

Agendas brush Aug 2012 #198

+1 HiPointDem Aug 2012 #236

No, you're asking for the video to make my mind up for me. jeff47 Aug 2012 #207

The women don't call it rape, they didn't want to press charges riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #30

And Do Not Forget This... WillyT Aug 2012 #32

Then the case would fall apart and he has nothing to fear from Sweden. jeff47 Aug 2012 #37

I don't think he's particularly afraid of extradition........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2012 #43

We'd do that from the UK jeff47 Aug 2012 #44

You are naive, or have your head in the sand. Even the Australian government has said that the US robinlynne Aug 2012 #99

He's not working hard not to have a trial. He remained in Sweden sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #109

You are ignorant of extradition protocols. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #124

It sounds like they plan on filing charges to me. ronnie624 Aug 2012 #159

and it is not rape in Sweden- it is 'sexual misconduct'- a far lesser charge Swagman Aug 2012 #38

My understanding is the translation from Swedish can mean either. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2012 #40

Except the women themselves aren't calling it rape, nor did they want to press charges riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #45

Then there's no case against him and he has nothing to fear from Sweden. jeff47 Aug 2012 #46

Since Sweden has participated in extra judicial with the US riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #49

Ok, now try reading what I actually wrote. jeff47 Aug 2012 #83

Read what I wrote, "its clearly got precedent happening from Sweden, not the UK." nt riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #103

Did you miss that part about giving him over with a gift bow? jeff47 Aug 2012 #143

ffs it's been explaied to you that the UK will not extradite to a country with the death penalty.. frylock Aug 2012 #205

No, they will happily extradite as long as the prosecutors agree not to seek the death penalty. jeff47 Aug 2012 #208

"Nothing To Fear" WillyT Aug 2012 #50

Again, either they're following the rules jeff47 Aug 2012 #84

The point is to (1) discredit him and (2) get rid of him. US has nothing with which to charge him.nt ieoeja Aug 2012 #78

He already discredited himself when he fucked over the rest of wikileaks jeff47 Aug 2012 #85

That's a cogent analysis of this case. I'm sure he, and most public figures btw, have sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #119

So you know nothing of what used to be Wikileaks then? jeff47 Aug 2012 #141

You really are unaware of DOJ requests to Twitter sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #144

I'm mocking you for the conspiracy theory angle. jeff47 Aug 2012 #145

Take your mockery and bring it to a non-democratic board. Mockery is not a progressive sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #147

Oh please jeff47 Aug 2012 #151

You don't like the facts, I get it. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #155

You don't get it tama Aug 2012 #239

So your complaint is the DOJ is following the law? jeff47 Aug 2012 #242

no one said he's a saint. he sounds like a royal asshole, in fact. him being an asshole doesn't HiPointDem Aug 2012 #186

Yet you refuse to belive he could have raped someone jeff47 Aug 2012 #209

by the testimony of the women themselves he didn't rape them. did you read it? HiPointDem Aug 2012 #212

Your definition of rape isn't the same as Sweden's. jeff47 Aug 2012 #225

as i've already shown you, rape in sweden = use of force or person unable to give consent. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #226

I notice you very quickly avoided the important question: jeff47 Aug 2012 #228

i notice *you* have ignored everything i've said, including the definition of rape in sweden. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #231

I'm sorry. I know exactly what rape is. Most women do. That is not rape. Rape is terrifying. robinlynne Aug 2012 #71

Once again, each country gets to make it's own definition for rape. jeff47 Aug 2012 #87

It is not rape. Dont call it rape. I dont care what Sweden does.That may be a translation error. robinlynne Aug 2012 #94

Does it matter to you that he denies these allegations? That none of this has sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #123

It's called a mis-translation. caseymoz Aug 2012 #100

But the two women didn't accuse him of sexual assault. Matilda Aug 2012 #136

Watch this video. Some of your facts are wrong brush Aug 2012 #192

bullshit. the definition of rape in sweden is pretty much what it is in the us. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #224

Yes, I understand you don't think it was legitimate rape. jeff47 Aug 2012 #229

which "swede's"? (sic) the ones who said the case didn't rise to rape and closed it, or HiPointDem Aug 2012 #232

IF he's innocent, he doesn't owe anybody anything cpwm17 Aug 2012 #15

the answer to that is Swagman Aug 2012 #18

Don't forget Sweden assisted the US in CIA rendition flights riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #20

Swamp Lover. Should the Blackwater guards who raped the woman (discussed in JDPriestly Aug 2012 #19

Yes. Swamp Lover Aug 2012 #23

oh yes they are Swagman Aug 2012 #34

First, he must be charged. nt tsuki Aug 2012 #22

What rape charges... Luminous Animal Aug 2012 #28

naif datasuspect Aug 2012 #70

there are no charges, and he was "accused" of "rape" for 2 CONSENSUAL sex acts. librechik Aug 2012 #86

There are no charges. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #120

Aussie video on Assange brush Aug 2012 #188

Pls watch this video brush Aug 2012 #191

"The woman who was held hostage and raped by Blackwater/Haliburton didn't get anywhere NEAR... villager Aug 2012 #4

Yes, it tells us Sweden does a much better job of protecting rape victims than Iraq. jeff47 Aug 2012 #27

she was raped by US citizens and as you know they can be prosecuted in the USA for sex crimes abroad Swagman Aug 2012 #39

And this relates to Sweden how? jeff47 Aug 2012 #41

it relates to your claim that Sweden cares for rape victims better than any other country Swagman Aug 2012 #53

You are lying. And stupidly so jeff47 Aug 2012 #142

Whaaaaaaa??? LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #57

Sweden has one of Europe's worst records for investigating rape Swagman Aug 2012 #61

And I'm sure you rushed here to post your umbrage on behalf of Blackwater/US Army victims villager Aug 2012 #63

Sweden may do a much better job of protecting rape victims than Iraq, BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #112

The paternalistic GALL of the Swedish state bringing this case on, against the wishes of the women riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #113

Exactly right! BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #137

Agreed. nt Live and Learn Aug 2012 #153

Du rec. Nt xchrom Aug 2012 #5

K&R! nt whatchamacallit Aug 2012 #11

All good points and yes... ProfessionalLeftist Aug 2012 #12

That's the problem with insanity, it never stops getting worse. If Mickey Spillane had Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #13

Fear of (more) exposure drives governments nuts. Even ones that brand themselves "transparent". Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2012 #14

"Do Not Pay Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain!" WillyT Aug 2012 #16

Also Flatpicker Aug 2012 #17

good heaven05 Aug 2012 #21

great link in the OP n/t RainDog Aug 2012 #25

yes, obviously. threats to storm an embassy over a highly-dubious rape (highly dubious because HiPointDem Aug 2012 #26

Yup truebrit71 Aug 2012 #31

k & friggin r! nt wildbilln864 Aug 2012 #33

an independent nation has concluded that Assange is telling the truth and has reviewed Swagman Aug 2012 #35

"an independent nation has concluded"..... Swamp Lover Aug 2012 #42

I don't think that Assange is worried about any court of law...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2012 #47

Maybe... But Then Again... If The Fed Is Propping Up Half The World... WillyT Aug 2012 #48

it seems like Ecuador is one. Swagman Aug 2012 #55

Right. And "We don't torture" either. vanlassie Aug 2012 #52

you are not factoring the concept of asylum in your desire to Swagman Aug 2012 #54

no TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #56

y u say tiny elvis Aug 2012 #58

which country does this? Swagman Aug 2012 #59

why does TorchTheWitch say 2 contradictory things? tiny elvis Aug 2012 #62

that is not what I said TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #68

If LA wants to interrogate a suspect they extradite him from NY TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #65

I did say what I meant TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #67

Actually, no intaglio Aug 2012 #60

The point is to (1) discredit him and (2) get rid of him. US has nothing with which to charge him.nt ieoeja Aug 2012 #79

You have no clue what you're talking about. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #122

Sweden's last execution was in 1910; Sweden abolished the death penalty in 1920; and Sweden struggle4progress Aug 2012 #152

That doesn't include torture. The Doctor. Aug 2012 #156

Sweden hands over about one person/yr to US; UK hands over about 20 persons/yr struggle4progress Aug 2012 #210

How are you so good at being ignorant of the contents of the discusion you The Doctor. Aug 2012 #237

Add to that... Matariki Aug 2012 #64

The tactic is getting pretty predictable isn't it lunatica Aug 2012 #66

It's pretty obvious. backscatter712 Aug 2012 #74

+1, ...but with high post count uponit7771 Aug 2012 #92

Post removed Post removed Aug 2012 #97

Indeed. Not to *also* mention woo me with science Aug 2012 #154

You think it's suspicious that people in the news get talked about on a news-related webforum? cemaphonic Aug 2012 #158

I am amazed more people aren't seeing right through this. redqueen Aug 2012 #72

This is NOT about rape. This is about someone having the audacity to expose the lies. Raster Aug 2012 #77

Exactly. In rape cases, I take the alleged victims side probably 99.9% of the time. Zorra Aug 2012 #148

Yes I think so as well. Uncle Joe Aug 2012 #73

Rape of the Sabine Women perhaps may be a tad more important to world history AngryAmish Aug 2012 #75

Yes, indeed, very odd. Assange must have something BIG to warrant this kind of attention. Wall St. mother earth Aug 2012 #80

K&R Zorra Aug 2012 #89

Are people immune from all charges right after they commit a crime of which we approve? treestar Aug 2012 #93

*derp* Zorra Aug 2012 #104

So Julian can do no wrong? treestar Aug 2012 #105

No. I just recognize totally obvious bullshit when I see it. Zorra Aug 2012 #146

So you have given in to total cynicism treestar Aug 2012 #150

these two certainly aren't. yet the brits say they'll storm an embassy to get this guy. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #177

But they aren't going to treestar Aug 2012 #199

More baseless personal attack type propaganda with not one single shred of fact to support it. Zorra Aug 2012 #203

Easy. He leaks a bunch of documents. Unlike Ellsberg, no one is prosecuting him for it treestar Aug 2012 #211

I've never seen you so obsessed about alleged rape victims before. Zorra Aug 2012 #223

K & R AzDar Aug 2012 #101

good subject matter to weed out fascisthunter Aug 2012 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2012 #117

notice how quickly your... fascisthunter Aug 2012 #127

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2012 #131

incoming message fascisthunter Aug 2012 #132

Kick... For A 'Special' DUer... WillyT Aug 2012 #134

That's right! He wants us to continue to discuss this topic! backscatter712 Aug 2012 #135

Maybe Sweden takes rape more seriously than our government does? Hippo_Tron Aug 2012 #149

not based on their track record.. frylock Aug 2012 #206

ITT "progressive" DUers try to redefine rape. joshcryer Aug 2012 #161

This video clears up the whole women/Assange matter brush Aug 2012 #190

Thanks! Excellent journalism. However, no amount of fact, reason, or logic, will stop those whose Zorra Aug 2012 #202

Did you actually watch this video? AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #215

what the fuck does any "unspoken bond among women" have to do with the question of whether HiPointDem Aug 2012 #217

a courtesy response AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #218

ridiculous. and bogus. you don't want to deal with what the women actually said because that would HiPointDem Aug 2012 #221

An embassy was stormed? cemaphonic Aug 2012 #230

just threats thus far from england. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #233

That's the point cemaphonic Aug 2012 #234

derecognizing the status of the embassy = ruse to make entering the embassy and snatching HiPointDem Aug 2012 #235

Huh? brush Aug 2012 #222

Rockstar treatment tama Aug 2012 #240

More than mighty suspicious IMO... redqueen Aug 2012 #241