General Discussion

JCanete

(5,272 posts)

262. First, wapo has a reason to present their facts the way they do. They like the status quo,

Wed Nov 28, 2018, 04:54 PM

Nov 2018

hell they're owned by one of the richest men in the world.

Second, even their framing doesn't amount to your outlandish claim that Sanders is the reason votes went from Clinton to Trump. You don't have any evidence these voters would have been there for Clinton, and don't you see? That's the crux of the whole thing. If you can't show that then you can't support your argument that Sanders hurt Clinton by running in the GE. All you can support is that Sanders attracted certain voters that Clinton did not.

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Bernie Sanders: I will probably run in 2020 if I'm the best candidate to beat Trump [View all] Mrs. Overall Nov 2018 OP

He didn't do much to end Trump in 2016 katmondoo Nov 2018 #1

Did hurt Dems in 2016? empedocles Nov 2018 #2

I think so, yes. NT Adrahil Nov 2018 #9

He helped give us trump Fullduplexxx Nov 2018 #30

you have no numbers to back that up, and that is hardly the picture the numbers actually paint. nt JCanete Nov 2018 #57

Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Nov 2018 #120

+1,000,000 George II Nov 2018 #131

I know you've seen the refutation of the nonsense you just _+100000'd in the past, but JCanete Nov 2018 #198

I saw what you said, but I wouldn't characterize it was "refutation" since.... George II Nov 2018 #209

The issue is that those concrete facts, while concrete don't say what you or he are saying they say. JCanete Nov 2018 #221

Have you considered complaining to the experts at the Washington Post? Gothmog Nov 2018 #260

First, wapo has a reason to present their facts the way they do. They like the status quo, JCanete Nov 2018 #262

So you are admitting that you have no facts to refute the Washington Post's excellant analysis Gothmog Nov 2018 #264

I live in the real world and I like using facts Gothmog Nov 2018 #265

Quit lying about what I'm saying. Please. I've never refuted the facts in the article. JCanete Nov 2018 #267

The experts at the Washington Post disagrees Gothmog Nov 2018 #268

Yikes!!!! sheshe2 Nov 2018 #151

you seriously haven't seen that study before? Its still a lousy argument too, and I've JCanete Nov 2018 #200

How is it Bernie's fault if... at140 Nov 2018 #154

sanders was aided by Russia which pushed anti-Clinton stories Gothmog Nov 2018 #164

I don't understand how Russians benefit with Bernie as POTUS at140 Nov 2018 #169

Read the mueller indictment Gothmog Nov 2018 #172

They didn't want him, but they wanted to severely damage Clinton's general election candidacy. George II Nov 2018 #212

Russians were familiar with Clinton... at140 Nov 2018 #216

Putin absolutely despises Hillary Clinton. That overrides just about anything else. George II Nov 2018 #218

Just like how not_the_one Nov 2018 #230

Russians were likely familiar with Trump. Caliman73 Nov 2018 #220

What did Sanders and his campaign say about Hillary? LiberalFighter Nov 2018 #173

Were they competing in the primary? at140 Nov 2018 #174

Wow, that makes it look like Bernie could beat Trump in those states. sfwriter Nov 2018 #155

sander would lose a ton of African American support if he was the nominee Gothmog Nov 2018 #163

Doubtful, and you also have no evidence to back up that claim. Just an opinion. If you have data JCanete Nov 2018 #199

Crickets! at140 Nov 2018 #217

You do know that sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis?? Gothmog Nov 2018 #237

How do you figure that? Those weren't "general election" votes. George II Nov 2018 #211

That shows in the primary he pulled in crossover voters, who Liberty Belle Nov 2018 #157

There are specific concrete reasons for that, but I'm not going to get into it. George II Nov 2018 #213

I know you don't, since I can refute this very argument, never have my refutation challenged, and JCanete Nov 2018 #197

Did enough Bernie Sanders supporters vote for Trump to cost Clinton the election? Gothmog Nov 2018 #238

And how does who Sanders supporters-a small percentage of them-voting for Trump, prove JCanete Nov 2018 #240

Look at the margins of trump's victory Gothmog Nov 2018 #245

explained in another post. nt JCanete Nov 2018 #247

Not really Gothmog Nov 2018 #254

They know tRump's collusion with the Russians stole the election from Hillary... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #162

Russia helped sanders a great deal and pushed anti-Clinton stories Gothmog Nov 2018 #165

What numbers are that of which you speak? George II Nov 2018 #215

Some study that actually shows that Sanders running hurt Clinton? Numbers that extrapolate JCanete Nov 2018 #223

And that study of yours is............? Thanks in advance. George II Nov 2018 #228

I said I didn't have any such numbers. I said I wouldn't make the bold claim that I KNOW JCanete Nov 2018 #231

I subscribe to the Washington Post Gothmog Nov 2018 #239

They are facts. I didn't deny them. They just don't add up to what you are saying they add up to. nt JCanete Nov 2018 #241

Why not? Gothmog Nov 2018 #244

ugh.. I did explain it. Your claim is predicated on an unverifiable assumption that had Sanders not JCanete Nov 2018 #248

The fact that you think that you disproved anything is really cute and adorable Gothmog Nov 2018 #249

Again, the fact that you think that proved anything is really cute and adorable Gothmog Nov 2018 #250

I give up. Instead of actually dealing with my criticism of your conclusions, you just go back to JCanete Nov 2018 #255

You should consider reading up on the issues and using facts to support your claims Gothmog Nov 2018 #256

you should consider using facts THAT support your claims. nt JCanete Nov 2018 #257

I did and you failed to refute these facts Gothmog Nov 2018 #258

just random nonsense. What does Sanders book have to do with anything here? JCanete Nov 2018 #261

The comments that gave rise to the OP were in connection with sandes latest book tour Gothmog Nov 2018 #263

Here is the study Gothmog Nov 2018 #259

Yes. MrsCoffee Nov 2018 #87

Hell Yes.. and he sure as better Hell Not Cha Nov 2018 #126

He most certainly hurt the Dems by refusing to concede when he could not mathematically win KitSileya Nov 2018 #194

Thank You, Kit! Cha Nov 2018 #196

Aside from that, his support for Clinton was lukewarm throughout the general election campaign.... George II Nov 2018 #246

I was active in the Super Tuesday primaries and it was clear that sanders lost Gothmog Nov 2018 #266

He helped Trump actually ghostsinthemachine Nov 2018 #3

No...by not being a democrat? Are you kidding me with that shit? He ran as a democrat IN the primary JCanete Nov 2018 #59

Indeed, Bernie helped Hillary immensely... he certainly helped her InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #171

This message was self-deleted by its author Wintryjade Nov 2018 #177

Why would you say such a thing that is so easily verifiable as being untrue?!?! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #181

Deleted. I googled. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #185

Fair enough... no worries. I was just a little surprised, because you seem InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #186

Thank you. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #187

No he didn't "run her down" any more than O'Malley did karynnj Nov 2018 #89

This totally goes against now known facts that contradict R B Garr Nov 2018 #106

I know, right! WTH.. trying to rewrite History Cha Nov 2018 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author R B Garr Nov 2018 #159

LOL, sorry, Cha! It looks like I fat fingered the responses in My Posts to R B Garr Nov 2018 #253

No worries, RB! Cha Nov 2018 #269

BULL! Cha Nov 2018 #127

Please enlighten me about something Jim Lane Nov 2018 #195

Of course, everyone knows the truth of what you're saying... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #182

If HRC could be "run down" by a "gadfly" from VT BeyondGeography Nov 2018 #104

Excellent point! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #183

He certainly didn't enthusiastically campaign for Clinton. George II Nov 2018 #214

How many more of these leftynyc Nov 2018 #4

I didn't post this to divide Democrats. Bernie Sanders is an issue that we may have to deal Mrs. Overall Nov 2018 #7

Sure. In considering this statement and wondering Hortensis Nov 2018 #18

I Believe He'll Try To Run Me. Nov 2018 #40

:) I'm imagining someone claiming Democratic Hortensis Nov 2018 #48

Well, The ONe The Cons Fear Is...... Me. Nov 2018 #52

:) She is very redoubtable and belongs on judiciary for Hortensis Nov 2018 #76

If I had the time I would find the posts I have here and elsewhere that say Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #53

:) Are you that sure he won't run in the primary, Eliot, Hortensis Nov 2018 #78

As of this AM, he couldn't sell out the 1500 seat Town Hall for the kick-off of his book tour today lapucelle Nov 2018 #136

VividSeats has 248 tickets available (an hour after the start) with $45 Orchestra tickets... George II Nov 2018 #144

... lapucelle Nov 2018 #150

Sad. sheshe2 Nov 2018 #160

Selling his book at Amazon! Better Cha Nov 2018 #145

I wonder how they manage such deep discounts. lapucelle Nov 2018 #153

He was on The View and NPR today as well selling his book. sheshe2 Nov 2018 #161

... Cha Nov 2018 #166

ummmhmm sheshe2 Nov 2018 #167

I saw him on The View, he talked about unity and bipartisanship. betsuni Nov 2018 #179

Wow. sheshe2 Nov 2018 #189

He's optimistic that the Senate can pass legislation with bipartisan support. betsuni Nov 2018 #191

The country is divided. It's silly to deny that. Garrett78 Nov 2018 #201

It's an odd mix of cynicism toward Democrats (beholden to corporations and wealthy donors) betsuni Nov 2018 #205

My wife missed the first half of the View today. She asked, "did I miss anything?" George II Nov 2018 #180

Yikes! Me. Nov 2018 #148

This is not a good sign Gothmog Nov 2018 #193

IGNORE HIM leftynyc Nov 2018 #23

if hes the nominee i will vote for him but not donate nor support..... samnsara Nov 2018 #56

He's not an issue to deal with. He's another potential candidate in the democratic field. JCanete Nov 2018 #60

What I meant was if he runs as an Independent (that would make it the "issue"). Mrs. Overall Nov 2018 #65

Okay, but I think it highly highly improbable that he would run as an independent. He knows that JCanete Nov 2018 #68

He doesn't run as an Independent because "it would split the vote," Dems have $$ and Marketing. ehrnst Nov 2018 #208

Nonsense, that has nothing to do with why he runs as a democrat in Vermont. I know that JCanete Nov 2018 #222

I'm talking about him running for POTUS. (ntt) ehrnst Nov 2018 #225

There are obstacles to him running as a Democrat, not the least of which is the requirement.... George II Nov 2018 #149

And if he loses the nomination again displacedtexan Nov 2018 #224

Most likely. After all, he's negotiated a methodology whereby he gets the "Democratic"... George II Nov 2018 #226

Exactly.. thanks Mrs Overall. The fact Cha Nov 2018 #132

Thank you, Cha. Mrs. Overall Nov 2018 #210

No worries, mate! Cha Nov 2018 #234

Oh, Bernie's running all right... he's ranked only behind Biden in potential candidates InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #188

in terms of him running as a Dem ...... But Sanders IS NOT a Democrat. He is an Independent. trueblue2007 Nov 2018 #192

Go Bernie! Power 2 the People Nov 2018 #5

Go Biden! R B Garr Nov 2018 #17

+1000 pandr32 Nov 2018 #32

Yes, I only support DEMOCRATS. That is until something better comes along and I can ASSURE Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #55

"I only support DEMOCRATS." Why shouldn't we be allowed, expected to say and feel this? Wintryjade Nov 2018 #102

Go Biden LakeArenal Nov 2018 #156

Yes, GO Bernie. George II Nov 2018 #152

That is reassuring DFW Nov 2018 #6

He can't get nominated, yet I'm sure he thinks he's the best candidate. Garrett78 Nov 2018 #25

I don't care if he thinks he's Caligula's horse DFW Nov 2018 #49

Old Man Yells At Cloud PubliusEnigma Nov 2018 #8

I'm glad we have several attractive, young potential candidates. brush Nov 2018 #10

So that means he's not running. That's good news for the party! LonePirate Nov 2018 #11

He won't be. If there were nothing else, he'd still be 79 Hortensis Nov 2018 #12

As a third party Independent candidate? sarcasmo Nov 2018 #13

You're not the best candidate, Bernie. MineralMan Nov 2018 #14

You're not saying Hillary shouldn't have run again, are you? shanny Nov 2018 #41

Why would I say that. Anyone can run for President. MineralMan Nov 2018 #42

Because she lost once. Like Bernie. shanny Nov 2018 #43

That doesn't matter. She can run. Bernie can run. MineralMan Nov 2018 #44

YEP krawhitham Nov 2018 #51

Bernie's toast before he launches his campaign. kstewart33 Nov 2018 #62

Yep Go Vols Nov 2018 #117

Sanders adopted Clinton college and minimum wage progression. Clinton really did not do much moving Wintryjade Nov 2018 #121

minimum 5 or 7 years FULL tax returns before even considering allowing anyone to run Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #64

He won't put out his taxes. After successfully not doing it in 2016, he is comfortable that is not Wintryjade Nov 2018 #83

You're right about that, but, I do think the right thing for Bernie & others to do is put out InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #184

He did claim to be a Democrat for the duration of the campaign. MineralMan Nov 2018 #84

His policy platforms are the Democratic Party's position for a couple decades. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #88

Well, with some variations, that is true. MineralMan Nov 2018 #90

I believe they should be transparent, also. Another thing I admires our Democrat Leaders, Wintryjade Nov 2018 #99

A: You're not. Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2018 #15

Some states are requiring showing your tax return before they can be on the ballot. redstatebluegirl Nov 2018 #16

Amen. The hypocrisy about transparency will not survive R B Garr Nov 2018 #19

Which states have done that if you know? Are they substantial enough to make it so Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #66

According to Axios there are 25 that have either done it or are preparing to do it. It is aimed at redstatebluegirl Nov 2018 #98

Thanks, and it may well turn out to be unconstitutional. The interesting thing will be to see WHO Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #109

Then he won't be running. MoonRiver Nov 2018 #20

The midterms are over. It's time for the Democratic Party to get its act together aikoaiko Nov 2018 #21

This is how we win. People need to WAKE UP TO THIS FACT. realmirage Nov 2018 #85

Sorry Bernie, you are not the best candidate. Whether justified or not you would create division still_one Nov 2018 #22

so I read that as qazplm135 Nov 2018 #24

Yeah, it's more like he's waiting to see which Democrat he R B Garr Nov 2018 #26

...right...because polling showed him first or second last time around. The shit people make up here JCanete Nov 2018 #74

uh pretty much from the start he was the only viable alternative qazplm135 Nov 2018 #79

no evidence that he was going to be more than a blip when he ran. yeah, sure, technically thats JCanete Nov 2018 #93

I just gave all the factors that laid out he was going to be more than qazplm135 Nov 2018 #94

Actually we had no idea how loud that segment would be. That he generated all that JCanete Nov 2018 #96

riiight qazplm135 Nov 2018 #97

Yes of course, he saw at least the potential of being able to generate influence. That's not knowing JCanete Nov 2018 #105

lol qazplm135 Nov 2018 #110

I can argue HRC was more progressive than Sanders, in reality. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #111

Well...I was a Hillary supporter qazplm135 Nov 2018 #112

You did not hear my argument. Without any knowledge of what I would argue, Wintryjade Nov 2018 #113

I haven't heard your argument on anti-gravity either qazplm135 Nov 2018 #115

Really? This is your argument. Hm. Whatever, lol. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #122

that's not an effective logic. Yeah, and Freaks and Geeks was guaranteed to attract anybody JCanete Nov 2018 #114

And again, no consideration to what the argument is. Interesting. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #123

nope qazplm135 Nov 2018 #124

That says a lot about you and your position. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #125

no I think it says more about how silly qazplm135 Nov 2018 #142

You can't think that since you do not know. Lol. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #158

Lol sure I can qazplm135 Nov 2018 #175

Probably no. awesomerwb1 Nov 2018 #27

... LexVegas Nov 2018 #28

Bernie's run! vishnura Nov 2018 #29

He's not. Next. Bleacher Creature Nov 2018 #31

He has a 100% lifetime grades from the NAACP JonLP24 Nov 2018 #34

He talks the talk but other prominent potential candidates walk the walk. George II Nov 2018 #135

He does as evidenced by his ratings JonLP24 Nov 2018 #137

I'm not going to go through all of his votes, but there are many that were NOT in line... George II Nov 2018 #140

I disagree with his vote against the Magnistky Act JonLP24 Nov 2018 #143

The only other Senator to vote against the Russia sanctions was Rand Paul. That tells me a lot. George II Nov 2018 #146

Rand Paul is Russia friendly JonLP24 Nov 2018 #147

ooh thankfully finally somebody pointed out the irrelevant detail that he doesn't put a d after his JCanete Nov 2018 #63

Very reasonable of him realmirage Nov 2018 #33

No Senator Sanders, you are not the best candidate. Small-Axe Nov 2018 #35

Staged comments designed to hold his dwindling base together while keeping money coming in. N/T WeekiWater Nov 2018 #36

he's not running then. Kurt V. Nov 2018 #37

Bernie never stopped running so he will run. comradebillyboy Nov 2018 #38

scorched earth would be running 3rd party in the General. Did he do that last time? This is silly. JCanete Nov 2018 #72

Spot on as usual! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #190

Right. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #75

Dead On! Cha Nov 2018 #138

Hey Bernie. You aren't...nt SidDithers Nov 2018 #39

By his own analysis, he's always the best. JaneQPublic Nov 2018 #45

Thank you for your truth telling! Small-Axe Nov 2018 #58

oh jesus..are you pulling out that stupid metric? Do you understand it before you just quote it JCanete Nov 2018 #73

He won't be doing it as a Democrat. boston bean Nov 2018 #46

says who? You? JCanete Nov 2018 #61

Yep. boston bean Nov 2018 #67

heh...okay. Make sure you let him know then. nt JCanete Nov 2018 #69

He will figure it out soon enough. boston bean Nov 2018 #70

This is where I am, keep asking. I really can't see the Democratic party welcoming him for the 3rd Wintryjade Nov 2018 #80

My goodness, that's needy. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2018 #47

NOPE, and I voted for him in the primary last time krawhitham Nov 2018 #50

i need anti acid now...or a shot of tequila.. samnsara Nov 2018 #54

As an Independent or a Democrat and does the Democratic Party simply allow him to run Wintryjade Nov 2018 #71

Maybe he thinks it's "his turn..." LanternWaste Nov 2018 #77

Run away, Bernie. DavidDvorkin Nov 2018 #81

Let's see what happens: but I think he will pass on his mantle to a younger progressive andym Nov 2018 #82

He didn't have the votes then and he especially does not have the votes now. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #86

i agree Bernie just won't have the votes andym Nov 2018 #91

I do not define them as progressives. I see progressive with our Democratic Leaders. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #101

Interesting...I totally disagree with you on Sanders economic populism, and think its JCanete Nov 2018 #95

Bernie has never been vetted. The gop would love to run against him so that Kahuna7 Nov 2018 #92

Bernie and Biden are the only likely candidates Eric J in MN Nov 2018 #229

You think bernie was vetted? Hillary never laid a hand on him. And Kahuna7 Nov 2018 #233

Good Marrah_Goodman Nov 2018 #100

Bernie Joediss Nov 2018 #103

Biden is ahead of Bernie in all 2020 polling I've seen n/t emulatorloo Nov 2018 #107

If it were only a choice between Cha Nov 2018 #141

I would support Joe if he ran Gothmog Nov 2018 #243

Post removed Post removed Nov 2018 #108

I really can't see any way he would win the nomination JI7 Nov 2018 #116

sanders wil not be the nominee Gothmog Nov 2018 #119

Oh Goodie, we get to see five or ten years of sanders tax returns Gothmog Nov 2018 #118

That's the first thing I thought of myself. He can't say pnwmom Nov 2018 #207

"I will probably run in 2020 if I'm the best candidate to beat Trump".... George II Nov 2018 #128

I hope Not BS. there's So Many Cha Nov 2018 #133

Hmm... fleabiscuit Nov 2018 #204

Stop Bernie TEB Nov 2018 #129

So he's running as an Independent? Cha Nov 2018 #134

Smacks a bit of 45's "I alone can fix it." VOX Nov 2018 #139

Good. My bumper sticker will get roody Nov 2018 #168

He'll lose again Renew Deal Nov 2018 #170

2016 was tailor-made for Sanders, and the race was over by Super Tuesday. Garrett78 Nov 2018 #176

Yes. Wintryjade Nov 2018 #178

Hahahahaha... LMFAO! Didn't set the bar very high. Hahaha... nt fleabiscuit Nov 2018 #202

Really.. Good point, flea. Cha Nov 2018 #236

I'll pass. RandySF Nov 2018 #203

I hope he's prepared to release 5 - 10 years of tax returns. pnwmom Nov 2018 #206

I like Bernie AND I fully agree with you on that. n/t Tom Rinaldo Nov 2018 #219

* Help Trump n/t OhZone Nov 2018 #227

I stand with Bernie. Joe941 Nov 2018 #232

BS is too divisive. Cha Nov 2018 #235

Sanders is busy selling his latest book Gothmog Nov 2018 #242

and that's how we get pence; AlexSFCA Nov 2018 #251

He should if that's the case, but it probably won't be just like 2016. He may not be our brewens Nov 2018 #252