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Hav

(5,969 posts)

67. The only account I cannot judge

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 02:16 PM

Dec 2018

is the most severe and the most far back in the past. It seems to be about an event the alleged victim cannot remember which will probably make an investigation and coming to a definite conclusion harder.

The other incidents are of an awkward nature but not even close to the severe accusation. The last incident should have been over when she raised that point in person to him and he apologized for making her uncomfortable. She accepted the invitation, he was the one who repeatedly denied her requests for physical contact. If the roles were reversed and he repeatedly asked to be hugged, I suppose that would have been another accusation against him as well. I can believe that the dinner might have been awkward for her, but that doesn't make it a me too incident.
Similarly, though not as crazy, that deranged person who accused Franken because she was reminded of that fat on her hip, wasn't one either.

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Neil deGrasse Tyson Responds to Sexual Misconduct Accusations [View all] DonViejo Dec 2018 OP

Wow, that was to the point. OnDoutside Dec 2018 #1

Won't do him any good Cartoonist Dec 2018 #2

That's probably true, but Ferrets are Cool Dec 2018 #3

I believe him.... Trueblue Texan Dec 2018 #4

All sounds plausible... to be fair, need to compare his detailed accounts to those of the accusers. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2018 #108

Being socially awkward should not be confused with sexual misconduct. IluvPitties Dec 2018 #5

Are you saying you can't have an innocent friendship and offer someone wine and cheese? LBM20 Dec 2018 #9

An innocent friendship and some wine and cheese? oberliner Dec 2018 #27

Why is the subordinate offering to hug the boss to begin with? at least that's what he claims, she LisaL Dec 2018 #33

I thought what we were evaluating were this woman's claims about this man's behavior oberliner Dec 2018 #50

One of the claims apparently involves the way he declined her offers of hugs. LisaL Dec 2018 #93

OK oberliner Dec 2018 #102

Well you have a vivid imagination I guess wasupaloopa Dec 2018 #40

The woman said she felt uncomfortable and creeped out oberliner Dec 2018 #123

that alone does not make him wrong treestar Dec 2018 #186

There is no relationship between this and Christine Ford oberliner Dec 2018 #195

who was brining up the idea we believe the accusation treestar Dec 2018 #215

He actually noted repeatedly that it was the wrap up. Ninsianna Dec 2018 #73

He notes that she quit the job immediately even though there were only a few days left oberliner Dec 2018 #124

She's hugging everyone, and she chose to go to his apartment where nothing happened. lindysalsagal Dec 2018 #122

She says that she felt pressured to accept his invitation oberliner Dec 2018 #125

But not by him. Rather, by his status as her boss. Beartracks Dec 2018 #141

It didn't cross his mind that there is a power imbalance? oberliner Dec 2018 #144

The strange part is going to his apartment. She's not a slave. She has rights and agency. lindysalsagal Dec 2018 #143

It is often challenging to decline an invitation from a powerful, influential person oberliner Dec 2018 #145

Not as challenging as geting assaulted. You turn him down and THEN if he punishes you go to HR. lindysalsagal Dec 2018 #146

But if he punishes you, going to HR may not remedy the situation oberliner Dec 2018 #149

Please treestar Dec 2018 #158

Well, exactly. LisaL Dec 2018 #171

"If there were any retaliation she could have reported it then" oberliner Dec 2018 #175

Which is why she should have filed a complaint when offered the chance. But she declined LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #178

which is legitimate treestar Dec 2018 #185

There are understandable reasons why one might not do so oberliner Dec 2018 #196

That could happen at any time treestar Dec 2018 #184

The more powerful person has a responsibility not to put the less powerful person in that position oberliner Dec 2018 #173

That "company" may not have had "policies" treestar Dec 2018 #183

Making unwanted sexual advances is what makes something a sexual harassment case oberliner Dec 2018 #197

or perhaps having a conversation over wine & cheese? /NT sdfernando Dec 2018 #209

or wine and cheese treestar Dec 2018 #216

If I hug you I might just want want more Politicub Dec 2018 #6

It depends on how you take that remark HuskyOffset Dec 2018 #13

She was the one offering the hugs, which he declined, according to what he says. LisaL Dec 2018 #29

I don't necessarily see that as a strange remark, or creepy Johnyawl Dec 2018 #37

Well apparently she was the one hugging people. LisaL Dec 2018 #26

Yeah, that's gross. cwydro Dec 2018 #84

That remark is the only thing I find creepy wryter2000 Dec 2018 #201

Me, too. Politicub Dec 2018 #204

Does anyone have info on these women's backgrounds? Hortensis Dec 2018 #7

All of the Clinton accusations could in some way be tied to Ken Starr. StevieM Dec 2018 #25

The left is not rejecting science. wasupaloopa Dec 2018 #47

I'm left, wasu, and very pro-science. If it can be Hortensis Dec 2018 #64

Being anti-vax is worldwide Progressive dog Dec 2018 #120

Safety enables fools to be fools. Adversity educates, Hortensis Dec 2018 #152

The right is pathetic if they think this stuff treestar Dec 2018 #65

I think they're after voters, treestar. Power and who gets it. Hortensis Dec 2018 #68

And bolton rump traitors are about to bomb Iran, so very bad days ahead. Eliot Rosewater Dec 2018 #101

I have info on the one who accused him of rape. scipan Dec 2018 #127

I gotta share this (from rape accuser's blog) scipan Dec 2018 #130

Ever since the Franken scheme eissa Dec 2018 #8

Yes I agree FakeNoose Dec 2018 #11

I think you're on to it. The wine cheese invite resulted in both sitting on opposite sides... brush Dec 2018 #80

Do you mean that she wanted something more? nt Blecht Dec 2018 #116

Possible...bruised ego and all. Nothing happened, just conversation. brush Dec 2018 #117

I don't think that's it; she said in another interview that she expected LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #191

Why feel humiliated? It could've been simply a misunderstanding. The job was ending... brush Dec 2018 #200

I agree, but I can sort of see her being upset that it wasn't what she thought LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #203

What he is accused of is maybe trying to have an affair. He shouldnt have done that if he did, Eliot Rosewater Dec 2018 #103

I believe him. n/t Greybnk48 Dec 2018 #10

So far yes. rockfordfile Dec 2018 #97

His account sounds as credible as the women's accounts Farmer-Rick Dec 2018 #12

Can we all please support the investigation and see what comes out of it Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #14

Trump would not allow the FBI to investigate anything that he knew would show that StevieM Dec 2018 #28

Innocent people welcome investigation Luka Boyd Dec 2018 #15

I believe him. Vinca Dec 2018 #16

Keep Gillibrand away from him. mac56 Dec 2018 #17

You beat me to it. calimary Dec 2018 #52

Well NGT wasn't in her way when it comes to 2020 like Franken was BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #81

+1000 budkin Dec 2018 #54

Guess she figure this one doesn't add up to any Presidential election points.... Bengus81 Dec 2018 #169

re: "She viewed the invite as an attempt to seduce her" thesquanderer Dec 2018 #18

If the person is a subordinate then probably inappropriate. LisaL Dec 2018 #19

When you are their boss it is a problem. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #20

He didn't actually made any attempts if you believe him. LisaL Dec 2018 #21

I have no idea who did what. My post was a reply to a question that amounted to what's the big deal MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #23

Unless there is mutual attraction... IluvPitties Dec 2018 #34

A lot of workplaces have rules against that (supervisor and subordinate dating), mutual attraction LisaL Dec 2018 #39

I understand, but I thought I addressed that in my last sentence. (n/t) thesquanderer Dec 2018 #49

Then it was right to impeach Bill Clinton? Yavin4 Dec 2018 #133

He was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice wasn't he? MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #153

But, he should have been impeached for an improper relationship? Yavin4 Dec 2018 #190

The sad truth. We live in a time when if you are an outspoken defender of your beliefs.... usaf-vet Dec 2018 #22

+1 dalton99a Dec 2018 #51

Once again, shades of the Franken topics. The reactions when the accused is "one of ours" Tarc Dec 2018 #24

We should just autmoatically assume everybody guilty, no matter WTF they are even accused LisaL Dec 2018 #30

That seems to be the standard applied to people we do not like, yes Tarc Dec 2018 #38

I guess I was wrong that I didn't actually need a sarcasm smilie. LisaL Dec 2018 #42

Oh, I know exactly what you meant Tarc Dec 2018 #137

they do seem to equate putting someone in a room and trying to rip their clothes off demigoddess Dec 2018 #74

As of now, none of the women have contractict this account of what happened. StevieM Dec 2018 #43

False equivalence Cartoonist Dec 2018 #56

I forgot that males get to decide which type of sexual misconduct is ok, and which is serious Tarc Dec 2018 #136

Serious? Cartoonist Dec 2018 #142

These accusations are as silly as the Franken ones treestar Dec 2018 #69

I have been pretty consistent dsc Dec 2018 #126

This is an excellent model for how to respond to allegations that you believe are not true. Nitram Dec 2018 #31

I agree. nt Honeycombe8 Dec 2018 #44

In the 2018 case, based on what he says, I think he was sweet on her. Coventina Dec 2018 #32

Sounds the same to me. LisaL Dec 2018 #35

Yeah, it's a real shame that she reacted the way she did Coventina Dec 2018 #45

It's ok to like someone. He seemed interested, she wasn't. IluvPitties Dec 2018 #36

I totally agree. n/t Coventina Dec 2018 #46

I agree TexasBushwhacker Dec 2018 #71

Sounds like a definite misunderstanding to me wryter2000 Dec 2018 #202

I agree TexasBushwhacker Dec 2018 #206

Or maybe because nothing happened someone's ego was bruised? brush Dec 2018 #86

You mean hers, I take it? Coventina Dec 2018 #98

Ye, it happens. brush Dec 2018 #105

I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on these accusations... Honeycombe8 Dec 2018 #41

Ample time for people to come forward? MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #60

No. That's what I think, as a "me, too" victim multiple times over. Honeycombe8 Dec 2018 #61

So, there has to be a good reason to come forward? MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #62

Yes, it's pointless to argue. I think what I think, and you think what you think. Honeycombe8 Dec 2018 #72

Occam's Razor says... albacore Dec 2018 #48

The 2009 "explanation" was particularly imaginative. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #53

Not really. OilemFirchen Dec 2018 #59

Sorry, that's odd. cwydro Dec 2018 #89

Yeah, OilemFirchen Dec 2018 #90

Somebody I don't know well? Creeping their fingers up my arm? cwydro Dec 2018 #92

Your response to this totally benign picture out-creeps anything suggested by it. OilemFirchen Dec 2018 #115

he was looking at the tattoo treestar Dec 2018 #188

Not if one knows anything about NGT. BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #85

The article suggests that there might be things to learn. eom guillaumeb Dec 2018 #87

We are missing a great Senator because no one would do a formal review, instead hounding him out Hekate Dec 2018 #55

Good Grief Ladies (and I am one) moreland01 Dec 2018 #57

I agree. You have to choose your battles TexasBushwhacker Dec 2018 #63

ITA. LisaL Dec 2018 #96

Yes! n/t luvs2sing Dec 2018 #180

+1000 happy feet Dec 2018 #192

Viscerally, I believe the accusers. Beakybird Dec 2018 #58

I don't believe them BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #79

and that is how the right does it treestar Dec 2018 #189

These are Frankenesque treestar Dec 2018 #66

The only account I cannot judge Hav Dec 2018 #67

While the truth is still putting on its shoes dalton99a Dec 2018 #70

Why is it only people with money/power DiverDave Dec 2018 #75

Are you seriously asking that question? Ms. Toad Dec 2018 #112

Thank you. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #155

I'm starting to think Pence has the right idea of never being alone with another female Revanchist Dec 2018 #76

Very smart move on his part. Jake Stern Dec 2018 #111

. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #160

If I was a male(I'm not), rusty fender Dec 2018 #118

. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #159

Oh please. Think before you post. The exact opposite of what you say is true... MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #157

I don't think most women would have made anything of that treestar Dec 2018 #161

I believe him Polybius Dec 2018 #77

Really in these instances, it doesn't matter that much... cbdo2007 Dec 2018 #78

If I hug you, I might want more. cwydro Dec 2018 #82

How creepy is it to repeatedly ask for hugs Hav Dec 2018 #91

And if it were a man doing that, what would people here be saying? LisaL Dec 2018 #94

I think it's kind of creepy for a person to go up to strangers hugging them period. rockfordfile Dec 2018 #99

She was supposedly hugging co-workers, not strangers. LisaL Dec 2018 #100

Hopefully she's learned that hugging is not exactly professional behavior. Demit Dec 2018 #107

Exactly this! n/t luvs2sing Dec 2018 #110

I have hugged people in the workplace a few times Bettie Dec 2018 #181

Guess you've never been to an AA/NA meeting ... it's practically a rule that you hug strangers there mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #138

but should it result in civil or criminal consequences? treestar Dec 2018 #163

I stand with NGT 100 percent BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #83

That's a lot of big fancy words to say "ladies are crazy amirite." WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 #88

More like I did not do it. IluvPitties Dec 2018 #104

Unstable people come in all shapes and sizes, some of them female. lindysalsagal Dec 2018 #121

Thanks for sharing this saidsimplesimon Dec 2018 #95

I want to believe him. Pope George Ringo II Dec 2018 #106

I think what we need is gradations in severity of crime and punishment unblock Dec 2018 #109

This is the rape allegation, such as it is LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #113

Well, isn't that special. uppityperson Dec 2018 #129

Anyone accused of misconduct who embraces investigation Pacifist Patriot Dec 2018 #114

Yes! peggysue2 Dec 2018 #132

Precisely. Very eloquently stated, thank you. Pacifist Patriot Dec 2018 #156

I try to keep an even keel on these things. Lokilooney Dec 2018 #119

Very relieved to see this. bitterross Dec 2018 #128

How do you envision an "investigation" all these years later? LisaL Dec 2018 #131

The only relevant issue for Fox and NatGeo LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #134

I already alluded to the answer to your question. bitterross Dec 2018 #139

Who actually decides the timing of such accusations? And are they calculated to achieve some effect? VOX Dec 2018 #135

Meh... Mike Nelson Dec 2018 #140

If nothing happened, why did she confront him the next day in his office? oberliner Dec 2018 #147

Yes, one wonders. nt ucrdem Dec 2018 #148

Her explanation seems plausible to me oberliner Dec 2018 #150

His explanation seems plausible to me LanternWaste Dec 2018 #177

Yes, absolutely oberliner Dec 2018 #199

My meaning... Mike Nelson Dec 2018 #151

Neither one is claiming any sexual relationship let alone sexual assault. LisaL Dec 2018 #168

The only claim here is one of sexual harassment oberliner Dec 2018 #172

Probably because she misiunderstood the invite, and freaked out LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #154

That makes sense oberliner Dec 2018 #170

I'm not even going to grant that he behaved inappropriately, just that it was LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #176

What a ridiculous claim oberliner Dec 2018 #198

Sorry, but I don't buy that. You have consistently tried to interpret every aspect of the situation, LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #205

you keep using the apology as an admission of guilt treestar Dec 2018 #162

Exactly right (nt) LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #165

I don't think the apology is an admission of guilt oberliner Dec 2018 #166

Which nice people do when they think they've inadvertently upset a friend. /nt LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #179

Add hot water to DemocratsAreBadMeTooRamen. betsuni Dec 2018 #164

Alternatively, be consistent oberliner Dec 2018 #167

"people you like vs. people you don't like." betsuni Dec 2018 #174

People like Neil DeGrasse Tyson oberliner Dec 2018 #193

Can we take each case on the facts and not be required to believe every treestar Dec 2018 #187

I hope that we can oberliner Dec 2018 #194

Also, this is the most straight-up piece of garbage I've read in some time: WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 #182

What is your interpretation? NT Eric J in MN Dec 2018 #207

A "Native American handshake" that feels a person's "vital spirit energy" is bullshit. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 #210

I would ask NDT if he ever offers this handshake to men TexasBushwhacker Dec 2018 #208

More likely he's creepy and is fine straying over boundaries. It's pretty clear from his statement. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 #211

One person's creepy is another person's flirtatious TexasBushwhacker Dec 2018 #212

He says "I've never forgotten that handshake, and I save it in appreciation of people LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #214

God this is disheartening. I love NDT. But, shit. ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #213