General Discussion

Buzz cook

(2,900 posts)

219. Not like a teacher

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:07 AM

Dec 2018

But yes older children are in a position of authority over younger children. Just as adults in general have positions of authority over children.

Authority is not just in the office one holds. Authority is also an aspect of the social hierarchy.
If it was abuse of authority for the teacher to spill the beans, then the same is true of any person in any position of authority.

There are churches that actively discourage belief in Santa and other mythic characters. Are their acts wrong?
The children attending those churches spread that lack of belief among their peers.
Where should we place blame there? Should there be punishment?

You need to look up the definition of the strawman logical fallacy.

What I did was the reductio ad absurdum.

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New Jersey teacher tells first-graders there is no Santa [View all] Demovictory9 Nov 2018 OP

She should be fired immediately, how dare she? dewsgirl Nov 2018 #1

Really? Codeine Dec 2018 #71

sorry but I am a sub teacher in NM.. chillfactor Dec 2018 #76

Taking away a person's livelihood over a fairy tale Codeine Dec 2018 #77

It's almost as bad as the pretense that nation-states actually exist outside of our imaginations. LanternWaste Dec 2018 #165

But it's a fairy tale the vast majority of kids believe until they are a little older Polybius Dec 2018 #174

Huh, so at what age is it acceptable for teachers to stop lying to students? Coventina Dec 2018 #79

Should teachers tell students, even young ones, that there is no God? trixie2 Dec 2018 #97

I would be A-OK with it! Coventina Dec 2018 #98

While I agree with you trixie2 Dec 2018 #107

I don't disagree with you. But I also think teachers should tell the truth. Coventina Dec 2018 #110

You're OK with violating the constitution? Strong democratic values you have there. John Fante Dec 2018 #117

Telling the truth in the classroom is violating the Constitution? Coventina Dec 2018 #119

With regards to government employees telling John Fante Dec 2018 #124

How, pray tell, does it violate the Constitution? Coventina Dec 2018 #125

My science teachers never brought up religion or God John Fante Dec 2018 #128

Did you go to a religious school? Coventina Dec 2018 #133

My teacher taught us the same. He didn't finish his lesson John Fante Dec 2018 #135

I guess I was enough of a critical thinker to realize it did. n/t Coventina Dec 2018 #136

I took loads of science classes in HS and college. Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #189

lol stonecutter357 Dec 2018 #154

parents are the primary d_r Dec 2018 #156

Not disputing that. But once a child goes to school, facts are facts. n/t Coventina Dec 2018 #161

this isn't big brother communist world d_r Dec 2018 #170

Yes, their childhood is ruined, because they found out Santa isn't real. Coventina Dec 2018 #171

If it was my kid in that class, I'd just tell him that the sub Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #188

Yes me too d_r Dec 2018 #194

So.....more lies to cover up the first lie? Coventina Dec 2018 #198

I wonder when the "teacher" is going to be doxxed. Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #205

No their christmas isu d_r Dec 2018 #193

Knowing Santa isn't real ruins Christmas? Coventina Dec 2018 #199

yes, these are first graders d_r Dec 2018 #209

I'll freely admit that I didn't have a perfect childhood, Coventina Dec 2018 #210

There are children Charlotte Little Dec 2018 #211

Your right, faith doesnt belong in the classroom forthemiddle Dec 2018 #158

There is no evidence to support the existence of gods or goddesses. Coventina Dec 2018 #162

It wasn't her place. I'd be pissed as Hell if my kid was in that class. WillowTree Dec 2018 #89

But why? Codeine Dec 2018 #92

This kind of reminds me of a co-worker I once had Coventina Dec 2018 #94

Exactly! Codeine Dec 2018 #96

what utter bullshit. Inkfreak Dec 2018 #148

I agree d_r Dec 2018 #157

Yeah. The self proclaimed, refined critical thinking skills extolled in this thread kcr Dec 2018 #181

Because that was my decision, not some subtitute teacher. WillowTree Dec 2018 #99

Santa isn't a parenting decision! Codeine Dec 2018 #108

Whatever. You're too devoted to your agenda to engage in meaningful conversation. WillowTree Dec 2018 #163

Should older children Buzz cook Dec 2018 #146

Nice strawman BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #183

Not like a teacher Buzz cook Dec 2018 #219

How dare she tell children the truth? Doodley Nov 2018 #2

Hope she gets fired. nt USALiberal Nov 2018 #5

It's not her place to do that. John Fante Nov 2018 #17

Absolutely! StarryNite Nov 2018 #20

She was out of line to tell the truth? Are you kidding? Doodley Dec 2018 #213

No, she's supposed to go along with the lie. bitterross Nov 2018 #30

A teacher's place is not to direct beliefs trixie2 Dec 2018 #101

Santa Claus is not a religion. It's a lie adults tell kids. bitterross Dec 2018 #150

for those terribly handmade34 Dec 2018 #155

I think all religions are lies trixie2 Dec 2018 #207

What about facts? Isn't it a teacher's job to teach facts? Doodley Dec 2018 #214

Are you agreeing then the fact is there is no god or gods? trixie2 Dec 2018 #216

Maybe she'll tell little Timmy that Daddy and Mommy Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #190

lol trixie2 Dec 2018 #217

Someone should lose their job, their livelihood, because they told the truth? NYC Liberal Nov 2018 #43

IKR? Teachers, how dare they tell kids things? Coventina Nov 2018 #53

this! totally agree and well said... prudence54 Nov 2018 #54

Exactly. Codeine Nov 2018 #62

Absolutely! Separation Dec 2018 #85

Good point. Codeine Dec 2018 #95

Where does one draw the line? BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #184

Knowing that a fictional character is fictional is not appropriate for a first-grader? NYC Liberal Dec 2018 #196

Ultimately it's the parent's decision on when to pull the plug on Santa BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #203

Agree. Parents manipulating children into believing supernatural stories is the issue. Doodley Dec 2018 #215

Exactly -- Not her place at all. n/t whathehell Dec 2018 #78

Telling children the truth is her actual job. Iggo Dec 2018 #103

"You had one job! How dare you do it?!" nt Codeine Dec 2018 #112

Are you kidding? It's not her place to tell the truth? Doodley Dec 2018 #212

Where does she get off Educating them! California_Republic Nov 2018 #31

I never told my kid that there was a Santa. violetpastille Nov 2018 #3

LMAO!! Codeine Dec 2018 #91

evidently telling the truth to kids is not a cedar hill school family value nt msongs Nov 2018 #4

Why discuss it at all?? How about telling them there is no God? Etc. nt USALiberal Nov 2018 #6

They should malaise Nov 2018 #7

Yet most normal teachers don't do it. nt USALiberal Nov 2018 #8

What's so extra special about Santa? violetpastille Nov 2018 #12

Or that Mikey Mouse isn't real malaise Nov 2018 #15

"Mom, my teacher said it isn't turtles all the way down!" Codeine Dec 2018 #93

Pesky little thing called the first amendment. Ms. Toad Nov 2018 #16

That's not inhibiting anything Major Nikon Nov 2018 #48

You're right-i got the prong wrong - Ms. Toad Dec 2018 #159

The sub was not following the school curiculum. LiberalFighter Nov 2018 #9

Yep, no reason to discuss santa at all. Just wanted to cause issues I assume. nt USALiberal Nov 2018 #10

There is no President, either, torius Nov 2018 #11

And THAT MyOwnPeace Nov 2018 #13

My first grade teacher did the same thing 51 years ago tnlurker Nov 2018 #14

My teacher told me there was no Santa. Beakybird Nov 2018 #18

If you've been good, then Harry will leave you gelt ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #26

Or pickled herring in cream sauce! 😋 sprinkleeninow Dec 2018 #86

I tried that once ProudLib72 Dec 2018 #106

My father-in-law (Swedish) made his pickled herring every Christmas for Smorgasbord. sprinkleeninow Dec 2018 #118

The only Scandavian food I'm going near is lefsa ProudLib72 Dec 2018 #122

I could inhale those also! sprinkleeninow Dec 2018 #126

next, schools tell kids there's no Grinch or Wizard of Oz Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2018 #19

I was a substitute teacher in a class this year and talked about the Easter bunny. kimbutgar Nov 2018 #21

The correct move. Apparently that's too hard for some people. John Fante Nov 2018 #23

Why is that the correct move? To literally contradict a child who is right and to tell that JCanete Nov 2018 #24

I was assuming that other children were listening in on John Fante Nov 2018 #32

So lie to one student Codeine Dec 2018 #70

Careful, you're going dislocate a shoulder patting John Fante Dec 2018 #105

Someone needs a nap. nt Codeine Dec 2018 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author John Fante Dec 2018 #116

Here is the plausible Santa story. McCamy Taylor Nov 2018 #22

What is going on in NJ? When I was in 1st grade in Houston (1946), NCjack Nov 2018 #25

How do you know that? Did you poll them all? pnwmom Nov 2018 #27

I didn't have to poll anyone. The rumor mill put out the message NCjack Nov 2018 #35

It's better when kids figure out themselves pnwmom Nov 2018 #60

Anyone other than a parent who deliberately tells a little kid there's no Santa is a raging asshole. kcr Dec 2018 #182

Exactly! Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #191

Right?! Codeine Nov 2018 #63

That's strange... radical noodle Dec 2018 #109

I guess shit was different in the 70s Codeine Dec 2018 #114

I was a mother in the 70s radical noodle Dec 2018 #131

I was the king of snoopers. Codeine Dec 2018 #138

Good job! radical noodle Dec 2018 #139

I remember a priest doing that, during a school day mass Siwsan Nov 2018 #28

I've never been in favor of lying to kids. Coventina Nov 2018 #29

Yep. I knew what Santa was and the stories Codeine Dec 2018 #74

Also want to add: outcry over ruining Santa. Teaching Creationism A-OK! Coventina Nov 2018 #33

I'm an atheist. Creationism is garbage that has no place in any school. John Fante Nov 2018 #36

Nope. If a child is in school, the truth is what matters. Coventina Nov 2018 #39

We're not talking about teaching a course on Santa Claus FFS. John Fante Nov 2018 #44

So at what point is it OK to stop lying to kids? Coventina Nov 2018 #51

There's a vast difference between Codeine Dec 2018 #69

Lol @ vast. John Fante Dec 2018 #132

I loved make-believed as a kid. Codeine Dec 2018 #141

Maybe she could also show Holocaust films? BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #186

Right, because that's exactly the same thing. *sarcasm* Coventina Dec 2018 #197

But it's truth right? BannonsLiver Dec 2018 #202

Yes, but how truth is communicated can take many different forms. Coventina Dec 2018 #204

God is the socially acceptable form of Santa for adults. Oneironaut Nov 2018 #59

The concept of "they're not your fucking kids" seems lost on people. John Fante Nov 2018 #34

Harshly put, but I agree. This is a stupid argument over a childhood fairy tale meant to be outgrown Hekate Nov 2018 #45

That's my position NewJeffCT Nov 2018 #46

This. Squinch Nov 2018 #55

Perhaps instead of railing against Codeine Nov 2018 #64

What a crock of shit. They're first graders. Make believe John Fante Dec 2018 #115

And finding out Santa isn't real Codeine Dec 2018 #121

Sure about that? You just said your kids would never believe in Santa John Fante Dec 2018 #130

Bitter and angry? Cynical? Codeine Dec 2018 #137

Agreed. Chemisse Nov 2018 #67

Yep. It's not that hard. kcr Dec 2018 #164

My older brother died of cancer when I was a child bronxiteforever Nov 2018 #37

You're right. Sometimes it's a kindness to lie. But it's wisdom to know when that is. harumph Nov 2018 #47

I never told the grandkids yes or no when they asked about Santa. blueinredohio Nov 2018 #38

What I said to my kids Rorey Dec 2018 #90

OMG will the liberal war on Christmas never end? Bradshaw3 Nov 2018 #40

So there is no Santa? brettdale Nov 2018 #41

Something similar happened in Lynchburg, VA in 1978. no_hypocrisy Nov 2018 #42

I can think of better things to be outraged over Major Nikon Nov 2018 #49

I want to know WHY she felt the need to share this TexasBushwhacker Nov 2018 #50

Maybe a kid asked Codeine Dec 2018 #88

I'm torn about this Apollyonus Nov 2018 #52

An honest question; Codeine Dec 2018 #127

Oh... Snackshack Nov 2018 #56

My personal feelings on this subject. Doreen Nov 2018 #57

It's magical.. IcyPeas Dec 2018 #113

Magical is a good way to describe it. Doreen Dec 2018 #123

lying: telling of false statements with the intent to deceive Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #176

It's also magical to believe a stranger has candy in his pocket jberryhill Dec 2018 #201

We told our children from the get-go that Santa was not real Cairycat Nov 2018 #58

We never tried to pass it off as real to our kids either. Codeine Dec 2018 #84

WTF is going on that first graders still believe Codeine Nov 2018 #61

A friend of mine tried explaining the concept of Santa to her children... cynatnite Nov 2018 #65

lol. Some parents feel very strongly about Santa. They want the "magic of Christmas" Demovictory9 Dec 2018 #166

Yeah, they do. Iggo Dec 2018 #167

A friend of mine was a school bus driver for elementary school kids - milestogo Nov 2018 #66

It's an asshole move, regardless of truth vs make believe JDC Dec 2018 #68

Yes. That's why I think less of a few DUers after reading this thread. kcr Dec 2018 #179

My two sons are four and a half years apart in age. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2018 #72

None of those kids really believed in that crap anyway. Codeine Dec 2018 #73

bullshit quit lying to the kids gopiscrap Dec 2018 #75

+1 violetpastille Dec 2018 #82

I like that gopiscrap Dec 2018 #83

sorry you never got a what you wanted. Inkfreak Dec 2018 #149

This is why we have dump Meowmee Dec 2018 #80

His next trick is telling the kids there is no God. Liberal In Texas Dec 2018 #81

First grade ? Asshole ! lunasun Dec 2018 #87

What if he told them that Hansel and Gretel Codeine Dec 2018 #100

Strawman. Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #192

It's stupid stunts like this that are among the things that lead people to home school their kids. WillowTree Dec 2018 #102

Wow! People want to keep their kids home in order to protect them from the truth? Coventina Dec 2018 #104

Wait. Wait just a minute. Codeine Dec 2018 #120

I didn't say that. WillowTree Dec 2018 #140

This is why the NY Post is amplifying this story oberliner Dec 2018 #152

What a miserable piece of trash. EllieBC Dec 2018 #129

Oh good lord. Codeine Dec 2018 #142

I have told my kid EllieBC Dec 2018 #147

Some little kids are trying to figure out what's what womanofthehills Dec 2018 #134

Your granddaughter is going to be a badass. Codeine Dec 2018 #144

Someone needs to sue on the grounds of defacto7 Dec 2018 #143

Marley vs. Scrooge set a clear precedent. nt Codeine Dec 2018 #145

The NY Post is a RW tabloid which emphasizes stories that attempt to make liberals look bad oberliner Dec 2018 #151

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus. redwitch Dec 2018 #153

Exactly! StarryNite Dec 2018 #173

Well, that should warm them up for the later discussion of Creationism. eppur_se_muova Dec 2018 #160

So, telling the 6 & 7 year olds there is no Santa elocs Dec 2018 #168

I think what the substitute teacher did was wrong. Captain Stern Dec 2018 #169

It's pretty heartless of her to take it for herself to tell those kids something like this book_worm Dec 2018 #172

I agree 100% frogmarch Dec 2018 #175

Exactly, book_worm. Cha Dec 2018 #178

From my perspective as a parent and Cha Dec 2018 #177

That us just how I feel. nt leftyladyfrommo Dec 2018 #206

+1. Mean and stupid, but not a firing offense dalton99a Dec 2018 #218

Post removed Post removed Dec 2018 #180

Lots of outrage over a Murdoch paper story Cattledog Dec 2018 #185

It's actually all over the news. Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #195

Thanks for that, Crunchy Cha Dec 2018 #208

Why wasn't she fired? n/t Crunchy Frog Dec 2018 #187

Yeesh ColoradoBlue Dec 2018 #200