Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Caliman73

(11,767 posts)
17. I disagree.
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 02:27 PM
Dec 2018

Ultimately, supposedly more people voted for Trump in three states (in small margin) to shift the electoral college vote to him. There were definitely a very large percentage of people who did not vote.

Where I find problem with your argument is that you basically saying that the election was completely clean and Trump just won. You seem to be saying that because you and other people had already chosen your side and were not swayed by anything, that other voters are exactly like you and just "made the wrong choice" on purpose.


What Mueller's investigation appears to be showing more and more clearly is that Trump coordinated with Russian operatives tied to the government, who undertook a campaign to suppress voter turnout, feed false information to people for the purpose of dividing them and influencing them to vote for stein, or stay home. In addition, the fraud you write about was Trump paying money to stop verifiable negative information from coming out in the closing days of the election, which could have had a significant effect on said election.

You and I know that Clinton was the absolute best candidate in the general election. I am sure we both saw from the very beginning that Trump was unfit and would be a disaster. I would also assume that you and I spend a lot of time thinking about, reading about, and discussing politics. The majority of the electorate are not like us. A great many of them get their information from Facebook and other social media, or from their friends. We know that most of the social media sites were rampant with false information. We know that there has been a more than 30 year effort to paint Hillary Clinton as a bad person and that it wasn't going to take a Herculean effort to keep those negative stories in the media.

Trump was elected for a variety of factors including voter suppression by GOP lead state administrations, the culmination of decades of fake stories implying Clinton's dishonesty which were ratcheted up by Trump and fed into millions and millions of social media pages by coordinated effort of Russia and the Trump campaign. Comey's decision to "re-open" the investigation into her emails just before the election.

To say that Trump was elected simply because "disinterested democratic voters" is just not accurate.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes. We're in uncharted territory here, but he defrauded the people. panader0 Dec 2018 #1
Through impeachment, yes. Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2018 #2
Hard to believe we have Democrats on this site trying to argue away the House's Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #4
Exactly!!! Makes me very suspicious. By saying "take it Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #7
I'll tell you another thing that makes me suspicious. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #8
Perfect example of that was the immediate belief Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #10
Good example. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #11
It seems like Scarsdale Dec 2018 #13
That is so true. If trump rule has taught politicians Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #18
DiFi fell for the "Gentleman's Agreement" scam that Flake engineered with Grassley. Grasswire2 Dec 2018 #47
Yup, suspected it the second they all were a-ok /w further fbi probe..instant flip flop- Phil Mudd Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #57
Could a push to immediate impeachment before Hortensis Dec 2018 #54
Everyone seems to miss a very important moving piece of this puzzle. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #63
Meanwhile ReTHUGs pass laws to remove power from newly elected Democratic governors malaise Dec 2018 #20
I don't think we have to be dirty like they are but Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #30
A unified message would be wonderful. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #65
Most here who state reservations about impeachment KPN Dec 2018 #15
Don't you think the Mueller Report will be ready by the time the Dems take the House? Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #23
Yes BB !!! Start getting ready! It's the way Comey Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #31
. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #32
Sorry, I don't believe there's a responsibility to impeach at this time. elocs Dec 2018 #21
Why do people assume that Mueller's Report isn't going to be ready by the time the Dems take Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #24
Why would you assume it will be ready? elocs Dec 2018 #28
Things are moving quickly. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #29
Why do you assume it will be ready by then? onenote Dec 2018 #34
If we continue at this rate with the Mueller disclosures Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #35
And, someone was saying it may be incremental... Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #45
Exactly. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #64
That is the saddest thing ever. If we all.. especially Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #67
Bait, NO ONE is trying to do that. We have a duty Hortensis Dec 2018 #53
trump got elected not by fraud, but by disintereste democratic voters who either voted for stein or beachbum bob Dec 2018 #3
Yes, think we are also talking about fraud in the Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #6
I disagree. Caliman73 Dec 2018 #17
Strikes me as a wash. If more people voted for HRC Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #37
Barbara McQuade makes some good points there! FM123 Dec 2018 #5
THE GOP CONTROLS THE SENATE ROB-ROX Dec 2018 #9
If you are right...let them stand up, in public, and Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #38
We have to ask that question? KPN Dec 2018 #12
Yes. AllyCat Dec 2018 #14
Yes, but the obvious question is how? D23MIURG23 Dec 2018 #16
Let the cockroaches be accountable now!! Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #39
Yes! Civilian tRump committed these crimes and should be held to those standards. ffr Dec 2018 #19
Our Constitution (remember that?) only provides 1 way to remove a president from office, elocs Dec 2018 #22
Sure. Know all that. They tried twice with Andrew Johnson Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #40
My stand is with the Constitution of the United States. elocs Dec 2018 #50
Understand. Not sure why you are saying it though. Who is suggesting otherwise. Nt Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #55
There are lots of posts on DU that claim we need to get rid of Trump elocs Dec 2018 #56
threat of Impeachment led Nixon to remove himself by resigning delisen Dec 2018 #52
The winner of a poker tournament or beauty pageant would lose their winnings, and a new winner... Garrett78 Dec 2018 #25
yes and branded with a T for traitor samnsara Dec 2018 #26
Impeachment's the mechanism for that. TDale313 Dec 2018 #27
Yup, lots of buts and ifs. So what. Wrong Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #41
Oh, I agree. TDale313 Dec 2018 #43
of course Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #33
SHOULD he? DFW Dec 2018 #36
There is no mechanism to "strip him from office" Calista241 Dec 2018 #42
Yes. TDale313 Dec 2018 #44
That is simply not so. Grasswire2 Dec 2018 #48
That is a change in policy that will have to be made by the Attorney General Calista241 Dec 2018 #60
What does it say about the law if he isn't? ck4829 Dec 2018 #46
Who does the stripping? DFW Dec 2018 #49
There's got to be a groundswell - protests - demands to Reps and Senators. But, you must Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2018 #59
Stripped immediately! democratisphere Dec 2018 #51
Yes. In It to Win It Dec 2018 #58
to answer your question bdamomma Dec 2018 #61
Hell yes. He obtained it by fraud. LiberalFighter Dec 2018 #62
Fully support impeachment here BUT timing IS important. Keeping in mind bluestarone Dec 2018 #66
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Former prosecutor: "Shoul...»Reply #17