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BlueWI

(1,736 posts)

242. Sure. Suggesting more productive angles is allowed

Sun Jan 6, 2019, 11:37 AM

Jan 2019

on a discussion board, especially when further analysis calls attention to a strategy for winning more votes in 2020.

Sanders primary voters who voted for Trump in the general are not "a certain kind of liberal." Liberals are, by far, the most likely group to have voted for Clinton.
However, it might be good to continue thinking about policy positions that led to the Sanders uprising. But on many days in this forum, policy discussions are scant. In the general election, legislative agendas matter, and articulaing those agendas will determine the winner, IMO. Trying to get from 84%-91% to 100% of Sanders-Trump shifters in 3 states in 2020 is not possible, and is a classic example of the metaphor of generals fighting the last war. It's 2019, conditions are shifting. This party either moves on from spinning its wheels on this topic or it risks losing again.

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Kurt Eichenwald - The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them the Presidential Election [View all] WhiteTara Dec 2018 OP

Reading later underpants Dec 2018 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Dec 2018 #2

Exactly right Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Dec 2018 #56

Unfortunately Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #78

I've yet to find a Sanders supporter who voted for Trump but onit2day Dec 2018 #136

Nader did sway the election Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #145

If Gore had won his home state of TN both states would have been irrelevant. former9thward Dec 2018 #210

Vote was outspent 3 to 1 in Tennessee Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #229

People making a decision to vote for one person over another is not "stealing" an election. former9thward Dec 2018 #232

Not what I said at all. Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #233

Moving the goalposts again, eh? LanternWaste Dec 2018 #231

Well, that assertion is true if WhiteTara Dec 2018 #168

Nader was key in giving Bush the 2000 victory Gothmog Dec 2018 #190

Really? Gothmog Dec 2018 #193

How is it that you know plenty of Sanders voters, and in particular those who voted for Stein? CentralMass Jan 2019 #238

Nader was Rove's puppet just as stein was Putin's puppet Gothmog Dec 2018 #191

+1 CaptainTruth Dec 2018 #22

I know how Kurt feel. Blue_true Dec 2018 #40

But, remember- greenman3610 Dec 2018 #62

I have a saying. Blue_true Dec 2018 #65

"People truly are at all times what they are at crunchtime" FM123 Dec 2018 #103

Sorry, I am horrible with double LL, get me every time. Blue_true Dec 2018 #123

+1000 Hamlette Dec 2018 #67

That was a pivotal moment for climate change too. Chemisse Dec 2018 #127

Paul Krugman warned in September 2016 that the same thing was happening to HRC. lapucelle Dec 2018 #159

yeah, but it pisses me off when... Trueblue Texan Dec 2018 #116

I'm with you. SergeStorms Dec 2018 #146

... lapucelle Dec 2018 #154

As has been pointed out, and the date is in the OP, this was written in Nov 2016 muriel_volestrangler Dec 2018 #181

Yes, and no. better Dec 2018 #186

Completely agree Fullduplexxx Dec 2018 #3

... and they are back to do it all over again. Zoonart Dec 2018 #4

Yep, they're already gearing up to re-do the divisiveness of 2016... brush Dec 2018 #36

I Am A Strong Bernie Supporter Who Phone Banked For And Donated To Hillary PaulX2 Dec 2018 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Dec 2018 #68

Plus justie18 Dec 2018 #158

"I have no problem with anyone who voted for Trump..." theaocp Dec 2018 #5

Self reflection is good .. you get it but not everyone does Fullduplexxx Dec 2018 #7

Look at the date: Eichenwald wrote it in November 2016. Think back, then look around. Hekate Dec 2018 #34

It is not infighting. It telling people to use their fucking heads. Blue_true Dec 2018 #43

This OP is solving less than nothing. theaocp Dec 2018 #46

One thing that I know. Blue_true Dec 2018 #50

it is a deliberate distraction azureblue Dec 2018 #66

I see it as pointing out what seems to happening again. Diviseness is being spread by Social Media SharonAnn Dec 2018 #73

The article is from 2016, fresh off the disaster. paleotn Dec 2018 #91

Did you look at the date on it? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2018 #150

Not only did I look at it, I WhiteTara Dec 2018 #169

I think that this articleis ztill very relevant Gothmog Dec 2018 #207

Many of us received an email this week, crowing about what happened in 2016 lapucelle Dec 2018 #152

I was with Hillary from the primaries GWC58 Dec 2018 #99

I was stone cold Hillary in 2008 and was pissed when she lost and was not chosen as the VP nominee. Blue_true Dec 2018 #124

Maybe had Senator Obama chose Hillary GWC58 Jan 2019 #239

You have to wonder about if she was VP. Blue_true Jan 2019 #240

No doubt about it, my friend. 👍🏻 GWC58 Jan 2019 #241

You just don't get it.... paleotn Dec 2018 #88

X 10,000 radical noodle Dec 2018 #139

Yep. And in 2020 it is going to be Medicare for all. GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #144

+1 betsuni Dec 2018 #149

Let me get this straight: We are to blame??? Ah NO, we are not to blame MagickMuffin Dec 2018 #6

The russians shouldnt have been able to talk dems out of voting for dems but they did Fullduplexxx Dec 2018 #8

"Should not..." ehrnst Dec 2018 #173

It wasn't just Russians ...read the old JPR posts. Demsrule86 Dec 2018 #11

People like the person you mentioned. Blue_true Dec 2018 #49

Exactly! peggysue2 Dec 2018 #74

I agree...many are back...some never left. Demsrule86 Dec 2018 #92

I'm noticing the disruptive posts. Honeycombe8 Dec 2018 #95

like this thread? scipan Dec 2018 #114

This thread talks about people who DON'T go out and vote for the Dem when push comes to shove. Chemisse Dec 2018 #128

do you mean will Pitt who threatened to kill a homeless woman ? JI7 Dec 2018 #104

Yes. A really angry person that did nothing but attack democrats. Blue_true Dec 2018 #120

Let's make that a trifecta and add WillyT to the mix. sheshe2 Dec 2018 #142

Speaking of Manny... Hekate Dec 2018 #197

Ah, yes Third Way Manny. sheshe2 Dec 2018 #200

Happy new year, she Hekate Dec 2018 #201

You too, hon. sheshe2 Dec 2018 #206

That "Third Way" was actually resurrected by Sanders himself in an email to his followers.... George II Dec 2018 #209

I noticed, believe me, and noticed how eager some were to pick up the refrain Hekate Dec 2018 #211

Would not surprise me if the references are an early attempt to smear Harris and Biden. Blue_true Dec 2018 #222

You're probably right, but since that term has become the negative rallying cry.... George II Dec 2018 #223

Lots of posts referencing Third Way lately mcar Dec 2018 #213

Just a coinkydink, I am sure Hekate Dec 2018 #215

Yep, nothing to see here mcar Dec 2018 #216

I would not be surprised if Manny hasn't slithered back in. Blue_true Dec 2018 #219

Quite a trifecta mcar Dec 2018 #212

I remember WillyT and Marym. Blue_true Dec 2018 #218

I agree about Willy. sheshe2 Dec 2018 #220

If Stein voters Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #14

... and anyone who voted for Stein, a Traitor to this country. louis c Dec 2018 #23

I remember listening to an interview on NPR a week before the election. luvtheGWN Dec 2018 #30

You explain our system very well. louis c Dec 2018 #33

re: "couldn't see how voting Green or Libertarian could almost certainly make Trump the president" thesquanderer Dec 2018 #41

Agreed. luvtheGWN Dec 2018 #70

But, if you don't Trump as President, why risk getting him doing a meaningless vote. Blue_true Dec 2018 #122

You are a true patriot. You understand our political system louis c Dec 2018 #135

Apparently it worked in Wisconsin, where Jillsie won by more than the margin by which Hillary lost Hekate Dec 2018 #198

If you voted for Stein, or didn't vote, or spread any of the Squinch Dec 2018 #51

I only know of one person who voted for Stein and it isn't me MagickMuffin Dec 2018 #61

I'm not thinking anything about who you voted for. I'm responding to your post Squinch Dec 2018 #85

Just to clarify, did you vote for Clinton in 2016? Silent3 Dec 2018 #175

Just to clarify: Of course I voted for Hillary Clinton MagickMuffin Dec 2018 #179

What do you mean by this? mcar Dec 2018 #214

the dem party and progressive groups are to blame because they've got certainot Dec 2018 #79

He's blaming those who didn't vote for Hillary ... Martin Eden Dec 2018 #153

They are back at it for sure. Demsrule86 Dec 2018 #9

"He expressed outrage that the Republican nominee had won" ooky Dec 2018 #10

Well, they don't have Hillary to kick around any more, so what is their excuse now??????? northoftheborder Dec 2018 #12

They're still kicking Hillary around, in an amazing turn of events (sarcasm). They & the GOP will... Hekate Dec 2018 #37

Pretty much agree with this, except ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #15

"I have no problem with anyone who voted for Trump..." SMC22307 Dec 2018 #16

No, he's the "tentacle porn" guy. Lol. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #24

He is also the seizure guy oberliner Dec 2018 #27

Why do you have two animations of violence against little girls in your posts, Hassin? Just curious. Hekate Dec 2018 #38

Little girls are the real enemy IronLionZion Dec 2018 #102

That is certainly one answer, isn't it? Hekate Dec 2018 #117

Ummhmm. nt sheshe2 Dec 2018 #143

At least he doesn't appear to be a rape porn guy. N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #155

... ehrnst Dec 2018 #171

LOL! Yeah, Kurt, leave your wife and kids out of your porn habit! SMC22307 Dec 2018 #94

The guy has integrity issues. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #121

Maybe that's why I've tuned him out. SMC22307 Dec 2018 #162

He has exhibited some really bizarre behavior and tells a lot of lies for a "journalist" Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #217

Is tentacle porn as troubling as rape porn? lapucelle Dec 2018 #156

Actually tentacle porn was his lame excuse. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #160

A poster characterized it as "tentacle porn". It goes without saying that rape porn is disgusting. lapucelle Dec 2018 #177

Bestiality, rape, tentacles in every orifice? SMC22307 Dec 2018 #161

Isn't googling images akin to what the writer in question is accused of doing? N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #176

You've dodged the answer to your own question. SMC22307 Dec 2018 #180

Because I have no expertise on the variations of tentacle porn, I'll take your word on its subsets. lapucelle Dec 2018 #182

Probably not a very smart thing to do on your part... SMC22307 Dec 2018 #184

Perhaps the writer in question was doing similar research at the time in question. N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #185

Seems Eichenwald has a habit of making excuses... SMC22307 Dec 2018 #196

Curious thing about uncited links... for all we know, it could be Ben Shapiro and Fox News. N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #199

"Researching" tentacle porn? SMC22307 Dec 2018 #203

Researching hit pieces. (I think we've already established who researches tentacle porn.) N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #205

You are selectively editing here ... the author continues 'because they WANTED a Trump Presidency'. mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #58

And maybe the Stein/Johnson, etc. voters WANTED a Stein/Johnson, etc. presidency. SMC22307 Dec 2018 #96

I'm just saying your particular subject-line quote, and ensuing post, left out important context mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #98

This NTY piece about Milwaukee non-voters made me feel... SMC22307 Dec 2018 #166

ad ho�mi�nem /ˌad ˈhmənəm/ ehrnst Dec 2018 #151

You don't have a problem with someone supposedly on our side... SMC22307 Dec 2018 #167

straw man /ˌstr ˈman/ ehrnst Dec 2018 #170

I'll take that as a no. SMC22307 Dec 2018 #178

.... ehrnst Dec 2018 #188

Great article Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #17

I remember this pathetic piece from 2016. aikoaiko Dec 2018 #18

Jill Stein is a Traitor to this contry, is that your point? louis c Dec 2018 #20

I really don't pay attention to Jill Stein. aikoaiko Dec 2018 #165

Agree: 100% louis c Dec 2018 #19

United we stand, divided we fall. watoos Dec 2018 #21

I don't know. It does explain that a Genreal Election... louis c Dec 2018 #25

cool story, bro shanny Dec 2018 #26

And let's not forget jill's presence at the famous Putin dinner with Michael Flynn, etc. judy Dec 2018 #28

Thank You So Much Mr. Eichenwald & Thank You White Tara Me. Dec 2018 #29

I remember this 2016 essay well. Good reminder, White Tara. Hekate Dec 2018 #31

Why is a 2016 article being posted now? recentevents Dec 2018 #32

It seems pretty relevant today. The discord at DU is coming from other quarters, not Eichenwald... Hekate Dec 2018 #42

Maybe because the trolls are swarming here again lately. Squinch Dec 2018 #52

PS, I think it should be regularly posted until people get over the idea that Squinch Dec 2018 #53

Discord? Chemisse Dec 2018 #129

+1 betsuni Dec 2018 #134

+2 Hekate Dec 2018 #137

Eichenwald pamdb Dec 2018 #35

Eichenwald is lumping all liberals together. It is a certain kind of liberal that voted for Nitram Dec 2018 #39

He's not doing any such thing. Squinch Dec 2018 #54

He specifically said "A certain kind of liberal makes me sick." Chemisse Dec 2018 #130

Ture. I overlooked that. I should have written "Democrat" rather than "liberal." Nitram Dec 2018 #192

So many STILL believe these myths and new ones will be created if either Bernie decides not to seaglass Dec 2018 #44

I respect and admire Kurt Eichenwald mountain grammy Dec 2018 #45

He wrote this a week after the election. Lots of anger mixed with some self-pity. EleanorR Dec 2018 #48

Thank you for that perspective. mountain grammy Dec 2018 #111

Eichenwald Nailed It! dlk Dec 2018 #47

What crap - NOTHING Democrats did or didn't do mattered. PUTIN saw to that. 50 Shades Of Blue Dec 2018 #55

Only because some who would've voted D believed th s@@t they spread SharonAnn Dec 2018 #75

Not "only." BECAUSE OF PUTIN. Put the blame where it belongs! 50 Shades Of Blue Dec 2018 #89

Stein was one of Putin's tools to win. Chemisse Dec 2018 #131

Massive amounts of US-generated voter suppression techniques, the New Jim Crow Laws, Citizens United Hekate Dec 2018 #118

He needs to consider the large amounts of anti Clinton stuff pushed by Russians and media lancelyons Dec 2018 #57

It's the voters fault! Will this be an effective campaign strategy in 2020? Stay tuned.... jalan48 Dec 2018 #59

Always love your hot takes. emulatorloo Dec 2018 #183

Thanks! jalan48 Dec 2018 #187

... emulatorloo Dec 2018 #189

.. jalan48 Dec 2018 #194

put this quote in GOLD DonCoquixote Dec 2018 #60

"Narcissistic purity" expresses it well WhiskeyWulf Dec 2018 #63

What a ridiculously divisive post. Why else KPN Dec 2018 #64

Still think this OP isn't divisive?? watoos Dec 2018 #69

Uh, this is from a week after the election in 2016 TexasBushwhacker Dec 2018 #72

He brings up some good points. PatrickforO Dec 2018 #76

I agree with everyone that agrees with me... siriuslll Dec 2018 #77

sigh Eliot Rosewater Dec 2018 #83

I don't like the phrase "voting your conscience." wasupaloopa Dec 2018 #110

Not liberals. LIBERALS knew what to do. Eliot Rosewater Dec 2018 #80

I'm a liberal and .. ananda Dec 2018 #81

Liberals didn't put drumpf in the WH. lark Dec 2018 #82

Eichenwald says 5 million Dems didn't vote for Hillary and that's what made the difference FakeNoose Dec 2018 #84

I hope the few Stein-ers I know understand their errors now. BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2018 #86

I have a cousin, the only close blood relative on my mom's side I still see every few years.. mountain grammy Dec 2018 #112

Tell that to Sarandon Gothmog Dec 2018 #195

I disagree somewhat with this analysis jimlup Dec 2018 #87

The problem is most Americans are fucking clueless. shockey80 Dec 2018 #90

Odd that major media is never blamed Cetacea Dec 2018 #93

I would add what at the end was another false win -- Hillary would win by a landslide karynnj Dec 2018 #97

Well, this is certainly a productive discussion. progressoid Dec 2018 #100

Ratfucking and trolling was widespread in 2016 IronLionZion Dec 2018 #101

I don't play in purity. It's defeating lovemydogs Dec 2018 #105

Ha, love it! betsuni Dec 2018 #106

counterproductive to post this old article KayF Dec 2018 #107

Excuse me. But, to quote the article: "Liberals did zentrum Dec 2018 #108

Russian propaganda aimed to suppress liberal votes sharedvalues Dec 2018 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Dec 2018 #113

I've asked you this question before BlueWI Dec 2018 #115

Bravo! This whole article was a joy to read. n/t D23MIURG23 Dec 2018 #119

I don't know of any Bernie Sanders supporters who voted for Trump. But if there were any ... marble falls Dec 2018 #125

I don't remember having read that before Progressive dog Dec 2018 #126

I read it a long time ago Gothmog Dec 2018 #133

Great article Gothmog Dec 2018 #132

Spot on. Firestorm49 Dec 2018 #138

We know a lot more now than we did when he wrote this. Jim Lane Dec 2018 #140

THIS. BlueWI Dec 2018 #157

Contextualized facts are generally preferable to random raw stats. lapucelle Dec 2018 #208

Sanders voters voted for Hillary in the general by a 2 to 1 margin over Hillary voters in 2008 who CentralMass Dec 2018 #224

That sounds like an argument for closed primaries. N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #225

I belive of the the 3 states only Wisconsin holds and open primary CentralMass Dec 2018 #226

Some of the primary voting stats may have helped stoke a narrative lapucelle Dec 2018 #227

So here's another take. BlueWI Dec 2018 #228

The data I cited concerns numbers, not percentages. lapucelle Dec 2018 #230

Percentages are numbers too. BlueWI Jan 2019 #234

A percetage is a number that expresses a fraction of 100. lapucelle Jan 2019 #235

Has anyone disputed that fact? BlueWI Jan 2019 #236

You shifted the terms of the argument presented in order to express what you felt lapucelle Jan 2019 #237

Sure. Suggesting more productive angles is allowed BlueWI Jan 2019 #242

People were warned that what happened in 2000 was happening again in 2016. lapucelle Jan 2019 #243

So this isn't fighting the last war BlueWI Jan 2019 #244

I've been posting about the 2000 election for years. lapucelle Jan 2019 #245

+A googol nt eppur_se_muova Dec 2018 #164

" throwing mud at Bernie Sanders and his 13 million voters" ehrnst Dec 2018 #172

... lapucelle Dec 2018 #204

An oldie but a goodie. NoMoreRepugs Dec 2018 #141

Its this simple: kaotikross Dec 2018 #147

Ranked Choice Voting tecelote Dec 2018 #148

Russian Rat Fuckers & Stupid Liberals sellitman Dec 2018 #163

The same guy who was cyber attacked so badly it nearly killed him is talking "conspiracy theories". Baltimike Dec 2018 #174

Eichenwald playing the victim again Ciaphas Cain Dec 2018 #202

Good reminder, at a good time. The fact is that winning isn't enough and all distractions hurt. ucrdem Dec 2018 #221

I wonder if it was Jimmy Dore he ran into? Quixote1818 Jan 2019 #246