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better

(884 posts)
63. No, I'm not suggesting we do nothing.
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:01 AM
Jan 2019

I'm merely suggesting that we should make the effort to determine whether a given person is at heart a good person who believes some misguided things, many of which are rooted in racism, though many who believe those things do not share that racism, or even realize that it is the root of the things they have been led to believe, or they are actually an irredeemable soul before we decide how to react to them.

Like many white guys who grew up in the south in the 70's through the 90's, I know plenty of people who still identify as Republicans, but whom I also know to not actually be racist in their treatment of other people. But despite their rejection of overt racism, many of them still buy into bogus arguments that they have been fed to justify support for policies that all of us here recognize as being rooted in racism. For example, opposition to the BLM movement on the basis of arguments like "white people are more likely to be killed by police than black people".

To someone who only pays attention to the surface of an argument rather than examining the finer nuanced intricacies, that might actually somewhat reasonably sound like a valid argument for downplaying the concerns raised by BLM, even for people who don't actually hold the racist views that talking point exists to advance. To those of us who do make a point of paying closer attention to such things, however, it's obvious that that argument is flawed on its face because likelihood is a fraction, and the statistics on which the argument rests omits the denominator of the overall size of the populations the numbers of which are killed by police. But if you don't realize what's been omitted from the statistics supporting the argument, you may well not realize that the argument is false, let alone how.

My point is that there are people who are swayed by arguments like that purely because it validates racist views they actually hold, but there are also those who are swayed by them only because they are some combination of intellectually lazy and ignorant, and genuinely do not even realize that the argument is flawed. And until they realize that they are being lied to, they don't have much cause to begin to question why.

For those who fall into that latter category, there is at least the chance that their views may be changed by addressing and remedying their ignorance, provided of course that they are not too heavily invested in maintaining it. The difficult part, though, beyond merely the part about figuring out which group a given person is part of, is to avoid creating resistance on their part to having their ignorance remedied. Utterly denying their basic human decency on account of just their Party affiliation is a really good way to make just about anyone resist learning the lessons we need them to learn, especially when their problem is ignorance, not malice.

That's where I think the relevance lies about what Secretary Clinton said about the the deplorables being irredeemable, but there also being those who supported Trump because of valid grievances not rooted in malice, and that "those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well". Their reactions to those grievances were somewhere between uninformed and misinformed, I think we can all agree, but that in and of itself does not mean they should not be regarded as friends. I think most of us have some experience with friends who make stupid and sometimes dangerous decisions. It doesn't necessarily mean that they actually have any malice.

Take for example people who vote Republican because they care about national defense and fiscal responsibility. Those are valid reasons for which to identify with a Party, and while those concerns leading them to support Trump quite arguably reveals a darkness of awareness and understanding, it does not necessarily reveal a darkness of spirit.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Did you remind them that he snorts crushed Adderall? ProudLib72 Jan 2019 #1
Heh. Maybe they do, too. Something. dchill Jan 2019 #4
I don't believe these types to be honest... EarthFirst Jan 2019 #2
This. CrispyQ Jan 2019 #23
They're all the same. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #29
You said a mouthful, Mr EarthFirst. demosincebirth Jan 2019 #50
An old, very experienced campaigner friend of mine used to say: Denzil_DC Jan 2019 #3
How in the hell can you make an intelligent vote Doreen Jan 2019 #5
My spineless, uninformed husband lets the NRA direct his vote. Talitha Jan 2019 #18
Ah yes, blind followers. Doreen Jan 2019 #28
I wish they'd advise that. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #30
My reply to your comment, Doreen Jan 2019 #31
Heh! BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #33
Close, but no cigar.... Talitha Jan 2019 #38
Yup, you have the cigar. Doreen Jan 2019 #47
Single issue voters are the stupidest RainCaster Jan 2019 #46
Oh ho not fooled Jan 2019 #42
He came with a Warning Label. djacq Jan 2019 #6
with terrific flashing neon lights dalton99a Jan 2019 #10
+ a bajillion Chellee Jan 2019 #51
back in 2016 my 8 yr old grand nephew came up to me and said that Hilary was a lair. mastermind Jan 2019 #7
I think Trump looked uncertain and weak lunatica Jan 2019 #8
I believe the men who voted for him are also searching for a strutting alpha male. Midnight Writer Jan 2019 #14
I agree though the dynamics are probably slightly different lunatica Jan 2019 #37
They want to be him-idea of an alpha male ode2joi1 Jan 2019 #58
Putin really did a number on us. It's scary when you think about it: C Moon Jan 2019 #9
The EX-KGB'er bdamomma Jan 2019 #19
Surely Russia could not have done it without Fox Network's support as well ? nt. Pluvious Jan 2019 #32
This. It's the propaganda, people!!! BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #34
I couldn't agree more ProfessorPlum Jan 2019 #65
I love hearing stories like this, Raven! Thanks for sharing! (And good for you for not pnwmom Jan 2019 #11
I hope you're right! eom LittleGirl Jan 2019 #12
My Republican friend, unfortunately, has yet to change her mind Moebym Jan 2019 #13
My BIL was a Ben Carson fan, but voted Trump because he had GreenPartyVoter Jan 2019 #15
My 2 moderate Republican friends callous taoboy Jan 2019 #16
You deserve an award for being so nice to them. Joe941 Jan 2019 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Jan 2019 #20
Matybe because of other common interests? csziggy Jan 2019 #24
I Have A Repub Friend RobinA Jan 2019 #27
It's like Hillary said about the deplorables... better Jan 2019 #52
'Deplorables' ode2joi1 Jan 2019 #59
No, I'm not suggesting we do nothing. better Jan 2019 #63
At which point MrGrieves Jan 2019 #21
Those 2 ladies mercuryblues Jan 2019 #22
Stay engaged gratuitous Jan 2019 #25
Admit Trump is a fucking disaster but cling to the belief demonized Hillary would have been worse Freethinker65 Jan 2019 #26
exactly! lanlady Jan 2019 #41
Your assessment is only valid if both are true. better Jan 2019 #53
Maybe not, but maybe they don't vote or vote 3rd party next election. MarvinGardens Jan 2019 #61
My take. Blue_true Jan 2019 #35
maybe they should tell it to their congressional representatives n/t anarch Jan 2019 #36
I'm hearing similar from my Republican girlfriend lanlady Jan 2019 #39
Your two friends chose a man who bragged about sexual assault... cynatnite Jan 2019 #40
Thanks for sharing that. Let's hope they really are KPN Jan 2019 #43
I like seeing cracks in the ice, but if they had to vote again JDC Jan 2019 #44
maybe. today at work, my long time rep friend said he wants a dem for next pres Kurt V. Jan 2019 #48
As usual, Democratic voters make up the "I told you so" club. Rizen Jan 2019 #45
Good to know, Raven. Thanks for sharing. nt Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #49
Recriminations would have no positive effect Martin Eden Jan 2019 #54
If you support a racist. you are a racist and you............. MRDAWG Jan 2019 #55
I say that your post is pretty strange. n/t Raven Jan 2019 #66
These stories are fun to hear Alpeduez21 Jan 2019 #56
I was hating Drumpf before it was cool. Crowman2009 Jan 2019 #57
I'm glad to hear it! Most of them will be turned off for one reason or another. Granted is should UniteFightBack Jan 2019 #60
K&R burrowowl Jan 2019 #62
There seems to be some pessimism Nonlinear Jan 2019 #64
Rump voters are upset that rump isnt hurting the right people, enough. the VAST majority of them Eliot Rosewater Jan 2019 #67
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