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In reply to the discussion: Should meth be legal? [View all]

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
36. It's only made in a "bathtub gin" way because of its prohibition.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:42 AM
Jan 2012

As another poster pointed out (and I always bring this up in drug discussions because it usually radically changes the conversation), meth is already a Schedule II prescription drug, sold under the trade name Desoxyn. Yes, there are chemical reactions involved in its production, but people only use battery acid and other nasty crap because of the prohibition. As I pointed out above, the methods used because of the prohibition produce a product of dangerously variable quality.

Legalization (of any drug, not just meth) would provide a pathway to providing users with controlled, measured doses of a guaranteed purity, thus preventing overdose. That, in fact, is why the production methods, facilities, and quality control of legitimate pharmaceutical drugs (like Desoxyn!) are so strictly regulated by the FDA: to prevent overdose and adulteration.

It seems that what you're really against is ingesting any substance that requires chemical reaction to produce. The problem is that that's far too broad a prohibition to withstand serious scrutiny. By your definition, things like aspirin and the entire class of -cillin antibiotics (to name but two in a long, long list of examples) would have to be prohibited as well.

Further, purely chemical drugs aren't all "bad" in the least, if given in a controlled manner. Until about 1985 or so, MDMA was apparently regularly prescribed by clinical psychologists to couples receiving marriage counseling (and, apparently, it worked). When the rave crowd got hold of it, it was banned, because of course we simply can't have large groups of young people feeling an artificially-enhanced sense of empathy, acceptance, and openness, now, can we?

Recently, it has been found that the drug enhances personality traits associated with "openness"- a reduction of secretiveness, with oneself or with others, a greater awareness of people around the user as people (empathy), and so forth. Remarkably, the personality traits this drug enhances are all considered "positive" personality traits, and echoes of these effects have been seen to persist for up to a full year following one dose. Currently, MDMA is being used to treat PTSD in soldiers returning from war zones.

The more I learn about street drugs, drug policy, and how those policies and justifications for them relate to the legitimate pharmaceutical industry, the more I come to realize that we have been rather shamelessly lied to by our "betters" for several decades running, the angrier I get, and the more I want to see real, substantive change in relation to our national drug policy, in particular, prohibition in general.

We've been had, and it's become such pervasive "common wisdom" that many react defensively when the subject is brought up. The hypocrisy is right out there in plain sight, though, for all to see who are curious enough to dig past the bullshit and get to the actual facts.

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Should meth be legal? [View all] Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 OP
If pot were legal, fewer would choose meth. n/t Scuba Jan 2012 #1
Is that really an A or B equation? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #7
Please see my post #14. Scuba Jan 2012 #15
No way. 2 completely different substances. FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #8
Please see my post #14. Scuba Jan 2012 #16
I agree. In the past, I have done both. Totally different substances. RebelOne Jan 2012 #105
I'm all for decriminalizing pot but I can't quite make that connection Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #10
I think it falls under the heading of "what's available". In some cases, the user .... Scuba Jan 2012 #14
OK I understand this. I am one of those people. MJ is my anti-drug. FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #22
I agree with your hypothesis, Scuba. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #69
The thing is though, 'decriminalized' and 'legalized' mean different things. Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #40
That's why I used "legal". Scuba Jan 2012 #48
I think we need to frame it differently, then Occulus Jan 2012 #50
My premise assumed availability, which means "legal". You're correct about .... Scuba Jan 2012 #85
I have been told by meth users 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #35
"It is a killer," but tapwater can be just as deadly. Occulus Jan 2012 #47
what?! ceile Jan 2012 #65
I guess you could say 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #97
I support legalizing everything. But I think you're obfuscating here RZM Jan 2012 #108
And you believe someone who's on meth? randome Jan 2012 #58
That's the *other* thing we need to fix. Occulus Jan 2012 #63
I understand where you're coming from. randome Jan 2012 #64
And that's the THIRD thing we need to address. Occulus Jan 2012 #73
I guess I should have said ex meth users 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #98
Meth is already legal. Schedule II drug (like most amphetamines). Liberal Veteran Jan 2012 #2
Shocked the crap out of me when I found that out. Occulus Jan 2012 #26
Dosage is everything. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #56
Dosage and who gets the profits.. russspeakeasy Jan 2012 #83
Meth scares me Aerows Jan 2012 #3
I think it may actually have a lot to do with cannabis prohibition, to be honest. Occulus Jan 2012 #49
I'm sure most users give intense philosophical consideration to their drug of choice. randome Jan 2012 #59
I thought we were talking about *new* users of 'hard' drugs, Occulus Jan 2012 #66
I'm no statistical expert. randome Jan 2012 #68
That last only underscores what I'm saying. Occulus Jan 2012 #76
I think thrill-seeking plays a much bigger role than you acknowledge here. Withywindle Jan 2012 #101
The pot high and the meth high are totally different highs jmowreader Jan 2012 #127
Personally Aerows Jan 2012 #78
Yes, but only if the meth were premade in a sealed off factory bigwillq Jan 2012 #4
The reason for that is that you can control for purity levels that way Occulus Jan 2012 #28
Good post. bigwillq Jan 2012 #67
Yep patricia92243 Jan 2012 #32
I'm with you. In fact, I might be willing to hedgehog Jan 2012 #74
No. FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #5
"Trick" question in the OP. Occulus Jan 2012 #30
really it does make it difficult. 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #37
Add the fact that some people have been getting cannabis FROM THE GOVERNMENT for many years running Occulus Jan 2012 #52
Medical pot is a no brainer Aerows Jan 2012 #80
Forfeiture laws are relatively recent. randome Jan 2012 #81
Actually Aerows Jan 2012 #84
They had a hand in making it illegal, yes. randome Jan 2012 #89
I don't use marijuana Aerows Jan 2012 #94
Racism was a huge factor too. Withywindle Jan 2012 #103
That's an important point, too Aerows Jan 2012 #106
any opinion formed about not trusting pot 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #102
It happens to look a lot like hemp a simple pattern Jan 2012 #91
Addiction needs to beseen as a medical issue and users should not be subject to prosecution randr Jan 2012 #6
Just imagine what the Meth Dungeon on DU would look like if Meth were legal. n/t Ian David Jan 2012 #9
No...n/t orwell Jan 2012 #11
People commit horrible crimes under the influence of alcohol, too.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #12
I have not seen any crimes committed while using alcohol that compare to the article I cited. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #19
The U.S. Department of Justice Report on Alcohol and Crime found Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #44
Neither is it an argument to bring more horrible crimes into the mix. randome Jan 2012 #82
Your comment ignores the history of prohibition. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #93
Yes, prohibition is an utter failure and a crutch for the security state. TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #13
MJ is natural, Meth is not LynneSin Jan 2012 #17
That's a better argument. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #77
Not only no - but HELL NO negativenihil Jan 2012 #18
Seems like a sensible policy. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #21
It's only made in a "bathtub gin" way because of its prohibition. Occulus Jan 2012 #36
. negativenihil Jan 2012 #54
In reverse order: Occulus Jan 2012 #71
wait a second negativenihil Jan 2012 #90
Eh, plenty of alcohol is "tweaked" by man.. Fumesucker Jan 2012 #119
It's too destructive to legalize Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #20
True, but how much of that truth is related to dosage quality and purity? Occulus Jan 2012 #43
Meth is a class all of it's own Marrah_G Jan 2012 #23
Legal,no. Decriminalized,yes. w8liftinglady Jan 2012 #24
this is the course other countries have done Johonny Jan 2012 #135
Not a chance sharp_stick Jan 2012 #25
All drugs should be decriminalized. roody Jan 2012 #27
In a word, NO madokie Jan 2012 #29
It already is, in Coca Cola bottles L. Coyote Jan 2012 #31
Tweakers.... tjwash Jan 2012 #33
That has to be the funniest fucking thing I've watched in YEARS ROFL snooper2 Jan 2012 #42
Wow RZM Jan 2012 #110
It's already legal. Any physician can write a prescription for it. MineralMan Jan 2012 #34
I want more people to know this. Occulus Jan 2012 #39
Yes. Well, not that many people are aware of that, MineralMan Jan 2012 #41
Undoubtably. Occulus Jan 2012 #46
But not in the dosages that most people would want. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #55
Perhaps under supervision, in an environment like a methadone clinic. backscatter712 Jan 2012 #38
'Manage their addictions'? randome Jan 2012 #60
Take a look at Europe - they do this, and it works! backscatter712 Jan 2012 #70
I agree getting them rehabbed is better than throwing addicts in jail. randome Jan 2012 #72
You can lead a horse to water... backscatter712 Jan 2012 #75
Also, injection clinics allow addicts to be supervised when shooting up. backscatter712 Jan 2012 #112
Right now, 'meth' is more legal than Marijuana, do you agree with that status? Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #45
Yes. Then the pharmaceutical grade would be circulating and people wouldn't be fucking up cooks JVS Jan 2012 #51
No... one_voice Jan 2012 #53
No. WilliamPitt Jan 2012 #57
legal or not, prosecution has utterly failed as a means of controlling it's use and distribution.... mike_c Jan 2012 #61
Was the crime cited in the OP committed someplace Meth is legal? cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #62
Good point. Meth is still illegal, and its prohibition did nothing to stop him from killing. Taverner Jan 2012 #88
Yes. Making it criminal just makes it a profit center. nt bemildred Jan 2012 #79
Yes, it should be. Having it illegal did not stop him from killing. Taverner Jan 2012 #86
No. MJ should be legal and all other drugs should be decriminalized like Portugal has done. FedUpWithIt All Jan 2012 #87
Meth was legal for 25 years or so and there wasn't a huge problem. Warren Stupidity Jan 2012 #92
Yes - I think all drugs should be legal slay Jan 2012 #95
Disappointing Johnny2X2X Jan 2012 #96
yes! nt wildbilln864 Jan 2012 #99
No. ellisonz Jan 2012 #100
I think it should be made un or less necessary loyalsister Jan 2012 #104
i used to be pro-legalization of everything arely staircase Jan 2012 #107
It should remain illegal to make meth Orangepeel Jan 2012 #109
Ultimately, yes RZM Jan 2012 #111
NO Tikki Jan 2012 #113
Only for republicans. donheld Jan 2012 #114
No. It tends to destroy people - quickly and permanently bhikkhu Jan 2012 #115
Fuck No!!!!!!! the things it does to the bodies of the users, the paranoia and Ecumenist Jan 2012 #116
Yes, with support systems, sitters and dispenseries. And it should be free. joshcryer Jan 2012 #117
you are being sarcastic, right? nt arely staircase Jan 2012 #120
Nope. joshcryer Jan 2012 #121
You think all drugs should be "legalized" and just handed out? arely staircase Jan 2012 #122
The negative impacts of meth are largely attributed to well-being. joshcryer Jan 2012 #123
agreed - that the impacts of anything, drug or not, are "largely attributed to well-being" arely staircase Jan 2012 #124
Your ancedotal experience is in a society without any drug-aware safety net. joshcryer Jan 2012 #125
ok i think i got ya, i would certainly want some kind of "dispensar(y) and shit house" if we were to arely staircase Jan 2012 #128
As someone pointed out up thread, meth-like drugs are already available. joshcryer Jan 2012 #130
Seems like you'd need dosage limits in such facilities. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #132
*nod* I didn't say I wasn't for no regulations. joshcryer Jan 2012 #133
i'm for that. nt arely staircase Jan 2012 #137
pardon me, "sit" houses, got it. arely staircase Jan 2012 #134
NO rollin74 Jan 2012 #118
Absolutely not. AngryOldDem Jan 2012 #126
FUCK. NO. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never been exposed to hardcore Tweakers. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #129
Four out of five dentists say yes. nt cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #131
Yup. Iggo Jan 2012 #136
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