Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Gotta Admit... I'm Pretty Baffled By The Split And Depth Of Feeling Re:The Assange/WikiLeaks Story [View all]tama
(9,137 posts)284. Don't get me wrong
I do understand your way of thinking - which is basically same as Görings:
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
Of course Göring was right, as the history of Bush wars proves. Only real obstacle to fear mongering public into wars a la Herman is freedom of information and government transparency that makes it impossible or difficult enough to cock up the lies and keep them credible enough so that public can be sold the wars and MIC can be kept fat and happy.
I have made no secret of my position, how ever weird and extreme it may sound from your point of view. I'm social libertarian aka anarchist who does not only believe that we need nation states and governments and hierarchies and authorities to begin with, but that they are inherently evil social structures. Of course you don't have to be social libertarian to oppose Göring's logic and standard government practice of it, I just find anarchism most logically consistent and emotionally and psychologically sound political philosophy. With heart in the right place.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
321 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Gotta Admit... I'm Pretty Baffled By The Split And Depth Of Feeling Re:The Assange/WikiLeaks Story [View all]
WillyT
Aug 2012
OP
1968, male, and yes I side strongly with Assange. I agree with him that the US should
teddy51
Aug 2012
#2
yes, bush & cheney will never be prosecuted. they'll die in their comfy beds attended by their
HiPointDem
Aug 2012
#129
and of what crimes HAS HE BEEN CHARGED in sweden, where all of this supposedly began?
niyad
Aug 2012
#200
So how are we to survive as a nation if all of our information has to be open to other countries
treestar
Aug 2012
#75
In your view, laws against rape and other sexual assaults are simply wrong?
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#183
Assange is hiding in Quito's London embassy to escape legal process in Sweden on sex allegations
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#186
Railroading? Hmmm. The Swedish complaints are over TWO years old now.
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#245
You believe that a man, who trades in other people's secrets, couldn't break the law himself?
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#272
You claim he's being railroaded, though the original arrest order was issued by a Swedish
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#286
He's wanted in Sweden for arrest on a rape allegation, rape being against Swedish law
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#246
Political asylum is here for when the machinery of government is used unjustly.
backscatter712
Aug 2012
#296
Tell that to the two guys that Sweden helped the CIA rendition to Egypt for torture.
backscatter712
Aug 2012
#316
No. Sex after consentual sex isn't rape. Both women had invited him into their beds.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#113
It's not rape. She consented on the same occasion to have sex with him. The sex was consensual
leveymg
Aug 2012
#145
You don't know what you pretend to know. It was consensual sex on the same occasion.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#147
Falling asleep does not constitute "withdrawal of consent". Complete Bullshit.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#150
Until the definition of rape is changed, it isn't rape. It isn't ethical, but it isn't rape. eom
leveymg
Aug 2012
#222
There may be a civil breech of promise case here. Doesn't meet the standard for criminal rape.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#225
where do you see a reasonable expectation of consent for unprotected sex
Bodhi BloodWave
Aug 2012
#233
As I said, there may be a civil case for breach of promise, but it isn't criminal
leveymg
Aug 2012
#239
Your interpretation is nonsense. Falling asleep does not constitute "withdrawal of consent"
leveymg
Aug 2012
#152
The US law I'm pointing to actually applies if consent has been given
Spider Jerusalem
Aug 2012
#155
By the plain-language, that only applies in CA if prior consent has not been given.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#157
That part of the statute applies if consent was not given, someone falls asleep, and is assaulted.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#216
She consented to sleep with him, and to have him penetrate her. That isn't rape.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#116
so what if its not against the law here, or is is suddenly only US law counts worldwide.
loli phabay
Aug 2012
#81
yeah i know it is, but i was making the point that some people seem to think that swedish law dosent
loli phabay
Aug 2012
#93
She already had consensual sex with him in the same bed that evening. That is NOT rape.
leveymg
Aug 2012
#118
... The defence argues that the offences in the EAW are not extradition offences
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#178
Do you honestly believe that the actions of Sweden, Britain and Ecuador are solely
morningfog
Aug 2012
#14
Sweden is a functioning democracy, where the courts are shielded from political pressure, and
struggle4progress
Aug 2012
#252
If you "find the accuser's stories to be credible and believable," do you have a link to first-hand
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2012
#36
Thank you for the information, but did you notice that the link does not lead to interviews in nine
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2012
#60
Your claim, "Whether it's a verbatim transcript or a summary is irrelevant" does not determine
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2012
#65
The "protocol" is a précis of the interview, there are extant transcripts and/or recordings.
Spider Jerusalem
Aug 2012
#68
Your belief is not controlling. A précis of an interview /= a transcript of an interview.
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2012
#84
You appear to be going to absurdist lengths to deny the apparent evidence behind the Swedish warrant
Spider Jerusalem
Aug 2012
#91
I trust that the Swedish police and prosecuting authority aren't going to be just making things up
frylock
Aug 2012
#172
#38 does not provide a link to first-hand account where stories from the "accuser" (or accusers) can
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2012
#66
That "tabloid" hired Assange to be one of their columnists before these incidents happened.
MADem
Aug 2012
#128
If true, so what? And the obvious garish layout indicates that it is a tabloid as much as
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2012
#177
If it's a tabloid, it is a left wing tabloid that has been publishing for over a century.
MADem
Aug 2012
#191
There is enough of a kerfuffle to this sordid subject that your poll would be meaningless.
randome
Aug 2012
#24
+1 Assange is no Dreyfus, but the pressure from the US .gov is blatantly obvious.
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#55
People are putting the date they graduated high school here, right? Not year born?
gollygee
Aug 2012
#30
1986 female, I support the ideas of JA, but I think the Swedish case should be tried.
Care Acutely
Aug 2012
#44
Willy T! Old enough to be your Mom, and side with both for various reasons, but more with Assange.
freshwest
Aug 2012
#53
1987, Male, Sides with Assange, and openness, and freedom, and ideals
DisgustipatedinCA
Aug 2012
#72
1961, male, sides with Assange, Manning, and the right of the people to know about their government.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Aug 2012
#86
It's the same old right - left issue. Conservatives support the wealthy, and their authority,
Zorra
Aug 2012
#111
i have not seen much facts, reason, logic and evidence that he is being framed tho
Bodhi BloodWave
Aug 2012
#307
an interesting report i will admit, tho i will take most the information with a grain of salt
Bodhi BloodWave
Aug 2012
#309
1977, Male, Sides emphatically with Assange and spits on the UK government - fucking
coalition_unwilling
Aug 2012
#137
Could you ask if we like to kill puppies and kittens? It might be a little less biased.
jeff47
Aug 2012
#168
I hate polls, age and gender discrimination and the government propagandists
just1voice
Aug 2012
#182
I don't have all the facts, but the whole manhunt stinks to high heaven.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2012
#206