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(44,654 posts)
79. NEITHER of them have given me a reason to believe one MORE than the other
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 05:05 PM
Feb 2019

Last edited Sat Sep 2, 2023, 12:32 PM - Edit history (10)

and in the American system of justice, the defendant gets the win when the credibility finishes in a flatfooted tie.


There is no way out of this for a Democrat theboss Feb 2019 #1
Maybe a matter of different perceptions moondust Feb 2019 #6
In another words, every date rape accusation ever theboss Feb 2019 #9
He said/she said. moondust Feb 2019 #12
There's a statement from a friend at Stanford that she has talked about this theboss Feb 2019 #14
I don't "believe all women" qazplm135 Feb 2019 #39
THIS cab67 Feb 2019 #81
This! happy feet Feb 2019 #224
THIS.. ADX Feb 2019 #231
Who "believes all women"? Loki Liesmith Feb 2019 #153
Actually, if you are in the middle of a hot make out session Drahthaardogs Feb 2019 #192
She explained... dawg day Feb 2019 #215
The timing is suspicious. Hotel room meeting and then friends for yrs afterward. hmmm onit2day Feb 2019 #128
Not comforting, but also quite true. Adrahil Feb 2019 #34
That may well be the case - Ms. Toad Feb 2019 #28
I don't buy that men don't know. I am pretty sure they don't care if they don't know. 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #112
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt - Ms. Toad Feb 2019 #195
Also consider... druidity33 Feb 2019 #152
Here's what doesn't seem to square with me. Strikes me Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2019 #155
As to your first paragraph - Ms. Toad Feb 2019 #196
Yes...if you mean telling someone else, I agree. I am Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2019 #198
I never said anything to the acquaintance who raped me - Ms. Toad Feb 2019 #200
Sorry. Sounds like this might have Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2019 #201
The kiss was unexpected but consensual - beyond that no. Ms. Toad Feb 2019 #202
This is a tough one and illustrates how difficult this can be. Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #17
You do know what the legal definition of misconstruing consent is, right? theboss Feb 2019 #19
Yes Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #22
Pretty reasonable qazplm135 Feb 2019 #70
not quite qazplm135 Feb 2019 #42
Mistake of fact has largely been a dead letter since the 90s theboss Feb 2019 #50
Absolutely not a dead letter qazplm135 Feb 2019 #64
also this isnt a court of law radius777 Feb 2019 #206
That's exactly how I see it EffieBlack Feb 2019 #32
Truth. Empowerer Feb 2019 #73
Why would she stay in contact with him for 15 year and never bring up her discomfort with Nitram Feb 2019 #20
According to her, she hasn't spoken to him since the incident. BlueStater Feb 2019 #23
That is what has the strongest potential to determine credibility. Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #25
Have any males on these threads had intercourse with other women before ??? Hulk Feb 2019 #85
There's lots of "unfair" reasons a given person can't serve in public office Recursion Feb 2019 #232
Actually there is a point where he seems to (nearly) contradict her. MH1 Feb 2019 #109
Bullshit. triron Feb 2019 #208
I thought it was a great statement...this situation reminds me of the woman who accused the Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #225
smart... well played Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #2
Whatever he said if private (as being reported), thank heavens he didn't attack her in the statement hlthe2b Feb 2019 #3
The precedent has been set. He must be ousted from his position. Honeycombe8 Feb 2019 #4
I disagree. This is a great opportunity to demonstrate it's a crappy precedent. Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #18
So what should the precedent be? Just ignore her? theboss Feb 2019 #21
WTF? Why would anyone think I would advocate ignoring her? Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #24
Because "an investigation" is a cop out theboss Feb 2019 #27
For one thing, the discrepancy in whether or not they had contact over the last fifteen years. Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #38
well for one qazplm135 Feb 2019 #46
Kept It To Herself erpowers Feb 2019 #84
One of the things that troubles me about this is how it came to light EffieBlack Feb 2019 #95
Like I said, she clearly went to the DNC in 2004 with the intent of trapping someone.... theboss Feb 2019 #104
Rec. LOL. 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #131
Exactly, has a Roger Stone-ish feel radius777 Feb 2019 #214
That's all Kavanaugh's accusers ever asked for was an investigation. nt SunSeeker Feb 2019 #57
Because it can't resolve anything. Tie goes to the runner, I guess. theboss Feb 2019 #60
Investigations are not useless. They dig up corroborating, and exculpatory, evidence. SunSeeker Feb 2019 #91
Exactly - it's not a court of law radius777 Feb 2019 #210
By "runner" I assume you mean the accused because of the innocent until proven guilty thing? EffieBlack Feb 2019 #97
I'm not sure that's the entire point of MeToo. cab67 Feb 2019 #77
The entire point of MeToo is that there is nothing to investigate but we still believe it happened. OilemFirchen Feb 2019 #193
that's the problem with MeToo. radius777 Feb 2019 #209
Thank you for writing this Empowerer Feb 2019 #213
Yeah, especially since we know they are being weaponized obamanut2012 Feb 2019 #53
I agree pandr32 Feb 2019 #65
Ah, the ol' "She regretted the encounter" argument theboss Feb 2019 #74
"If a past event was legal and socially acceptable (or even tolerated)"-WTF?? 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #118
This thread is really bizarre. And disappointing... demmiblue Feb 2019 #120
So are we letting Weinstein and Cosby out too? EllieBC Feb 2019 #123
We're giving Democrats a one-rape pass, I think theboss Feb 2019 #146
It truly is. EllieBC Feb 2019 #154
Nah, just not allowing the ratfucking ... #metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation. That's unwise uponit7771 Feb 2019 #168
Really? pandr32 Feb 2019 #158
#metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation uponit7771 Feb 2019 #167
I hope you are referring to extremely bad costume choices... moriah Feb 2019 #230
So NOW you think it's not a good idea. Honeycombe8 Feb 2019 #170
Are you sure you're replying to me? Pacifist Patriot Feb 2019 #223
This is false, #metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation uponit7771 Feb 2019 #166
It does to some. Ask the people on the Franken list. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2019 #172
True, that's why this shouldn't go down the wrong track of Franken uponit7771 Feb 2019 #173
Too late. Can't roll back time for Franken. The precedent has been set. Honeycombe8 Feb 2019 #175
Never too late to do the right thing, no need to keep making the same mistake different day uponit7771 Feb 2019 #185
I fought like hell to keep Franken from resigning EffieBlack Feb 2019 #176
He didn't resign. He was ousted. He had no choice. Honeycombe8 Feb 2019 #177
This is a good statement mcar Feb 2019 #5
Do we have any details of her complaint? nt LAS14 Feb 2019 #7
She has a long statement in another thread theboss Feb 2019 #8
Do you know how I can find the other thread underpants Feb 2019 #83
It's in general discussion twice theboss Feb 2019 #93
Found it. underpants Feb 2019 #115
Here you go... PunkinPi Feb 2019 #114
Kudos to whoever crafted that statement... ADX Feb 2019 #10
I can bet it was not Fairfax. 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #111
This is why i support # ME TOO Rustyeye77 Feb 2019 #11
I don't know what he should do dawg day Feb 2019 #13
I agree with your comment bdamomma Feb 2019 #51
She is a fellow at Stanford. She does not look like a hit job. 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #133
Welcome to DU bdamomma Feb 2019 #182
I don't think it's a hit job-- you miss my point-- dawg day Feb 2019 #234
He needs to step down. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2019 #15
Yes--Because Eating Our Young and Losing Elections Is the Democratic Creed!! DoctorJoJo Feb 2019 #33
This needs to be investigated to the fullest obamanut2012 Feb 2019 #55
Define an investigation here theboss Feb 2019 #62
This is false, #metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation uponit7771 Feb 2019 #169
It's a credible accusation and a credible person. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2019 #181
Nothing can be gained, still doesn't mean guilt by accusation. #NoFranken2.0 uponit7771 Feb 2019 #184
From day one it was known Franken's accuser was a right wing media personality. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2019 #187
When money/power/fame is involved, radius777 Feb 2019 #218
Why are you talking about "guilt"? This isn't a criminal trial Recursion Feb 2019 #233
He says she stayed in touch months after. In her statement, she says she never spoke to him Nanjeanne Feb 2019 #16
we already know what he said about the post not printing her story wasn't true questionseverything Feb 2019 #30
Indeed... regnaD kciN Feb 2019 #136
certainly true...he's made an allegation qazplm135 Feb 2019 #43
Exactly. Which is why I wonder why he inserted that so specifically into his statement. Nanjeanne Feb 2019 #45
one of two reasons qazplm135 Feb 2019 #49
I have heard that there is evidence she stayed in touch...and that is why the Post wouldn't touch it Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #226
This won't be taken well here I'm sure DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #26
So we should investigate her finances? #MeToo #nt theboss Feb 2019 #29
If that's where you'd like to take it then go there DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #37
So MeToo is a Republican front? theboss Feb 2019 #40
Well, me too is only getting rid of Democrats DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #44
MeToo is (mainly) a white movement radius777 Feb 2019 #219
sometimes it is...in this case yes. Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #227
Bad foreplay is not sexual assault; bad consensual sex is not rape. rocktivity Feb 2019 #31
The fuck? theboss Feb 2019 #36
I understand your position completely and I agree DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #41
My god, that is fucked up. n/t demmiblue Feb 2019 #47
According to her, he forced her to perform oral sex on him when she didn't want to. BlueStater Feb 2019 #52
According to him, they had a consensual relationship DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #61
And his word is more credible than hers...why? BlueStater Feb 2019 #67
It's not qazplm135 Feb 2019 #71
And her word is more credible than his...why? DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #75
NEITHER of them have given me a reason to believe one MORE than the other rocktivity Feb 2019 #79
And, as we all pointed out during the Kavanaugh hearings... regnaD kciN Feb 2019 #139
It was a job interview, as I recall theboss Feb 2019 #144
Which is why we need more info radius777 Feb 2019 #217
This is false, #metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation uponit7771 Feb 2019 #171
You're the one implying that he should be believed over her. BlueStater Feb 2019 #80
You're the one implying that she should be believed over him. DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #87
I seem to recall someone else who seems to think you always side with the man... brooklynite Feb 2019 #110
You're not accusing DirtEdonE of saying we should always side with the man, are you? EffieBlack Feb 2019 #119
Are you going to keep repeating everything I say like a parrot? BlueStater Feb 2019 #122
There is no fair way to ajudicate this. So let the voters decide in the next election. Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #228
Timing. Not a peep to a soul in 15 years, then boom! Dream Girl Feb 2019 #100
I expect better from this place. How disgusting. BlueStater Feb 2019 #127
#metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation, I'm more disgusted that this is Franken 2.0 uponit7771 Feb 2019 #174
What evidence do you have that this is a hit job? BlueStater Feb 2019 #189
Because guilt buy accusation is screwed up no matter what the sequence of events. The DNC handled uponit7771 Feb 2019 #190
And according to the statement of hers that I found rocktivity Feb 2019 #69
A woman can say no at any time. EllieBC Feb 2019 #76
Don't leave me this way DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #89
People in general DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #90
This sounds so republican to be honest. EllieBC Feb 2019 #92
oh no - the ultimate insult! DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #94
What movement? That women are people? EllieBC Feb 2019 #99
Listen, don't try to run that crap on me DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #116
Glad you realize we aren't all the Holy Madonna, though I'm sorry for the circumstances. moriah Feb 2019 #197
Welcome to DU! moriah Feb 2019 #134
And here we have an example of why women don't report sexual assault. nt LAS14 Feb 2019 #156
I wasn't going to say it right out, but I must admit you are correct. moriah Feb 2019 #194
I'm not a woman DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #211
The Katie Brennan story DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #82
Women Want Sex Also erpowers Feb 2019 #126
Just OMFG. All those rapists are victims of scheming women. 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #140
Have you read her statement? TexasBushwhacker Feb 2019 #68
Have you read his statement DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #96
I read both statements TexasBushwhacker Feb 2019 #113
Why would he lie? DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #212
I guess it's not good enough for me n/t TexasBushwhacker Feb 2019 #220
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Feb 2019 #35
And people have also been wrongly convicted - and often executed - based on ONE person's testimony EffieBlack Feb 2019 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Feb 2019 #105
Which, accepting your numbers, means that between 2 to 8 percent of allegations are false EffieBlack Feb 2019 #124
I am bdamomma Feb 2019 #48
How is this a hit job? She a liberal college professor? theboss Feb 2019 #54
yup obamanut2012 Feb 2019 #56
Social Media Lynching bpj62 Feb 2019 #58
Now, I don't have the most extensive sexual resume around... regnaD kciN Feb 2019 #151
Encounters bpj62 Feb 2019 #164
We can't hold others accountable unless we KPN Feb 2019 #63
What process is due? theboss Feb 2019 #66
Something I have never understood. Lonestarblue Feb 2019 #72
Ok well, then I guess all the rapists get off the hook? EllieBC Feb 2019 #78
Nope. There's a difference between "what she was wearing" and MH1 Feb 2019 #117
Going into the room is not consent to sex treestar Feb 2019 #180
Oh I fully agree. But we have no idea what ACTUALLY happened. MH1 Feb 2019 #183
nice slut shaming obamanut2012 Feb 2019 #102
It is all over this thread. EllieBC Feb 2019 #103
I think your post is entirely reasonable. Demit Feb 2019 #132
Thanks. I think some drew conclusions I did not intend. Lonestarblue Feb 2019 #204
Thank You RobinA Feb 2019 #205
Read her statement. I don't know if it's true, but it is not a description... LAS14 Feb 2019 #159
You could just go there to talk treestar Feb 2019 #179
It is entirely possible for 2 people to have different perceptions of the same event IronLionZion Feb 2019 #86
I don't know if it's just me, but I couldn't imagine being able to "perform" in that situation... PeeJ52 Feb 2019 #88
I will not try him in the court of public opinion underthematrix Feb 2019 #98
Wow... regnaD kciN Feb 2019 #157
STAND YOUR GROUND LT. GOV FAIRFAX. Baltimike Feb 2019 #101
What if he, like, raped her? theboss Feb 2019 #130
What if he, like didn't rape her? EffieBlack Feb 2019 #135
We tried to do that to Kavanaugh theboss Feb 2019 #137
This. And the TIMING of BOTH of these things is too convenient Baltimike Feb 2019 #188
Good statement, let the investigation proceed. Squinch Feb 2019 #106
Exactly. ooky Feb 2019 #191
Full disclosure, I've gone to hotel rooms and knew exactly what I was getting into. Dream Girl Feb 2019 #107
So, does that mean every woman should be assumed to be just like you? regnaD kciN Feb 2019 #161
I think it's a reasonable assumption that if you're going with a guy to his hotel room Dream Girl Feb 2019 #163
This message was self-deleted by its author happy feet Feb 2019 #229
Without any actual evidence, this really isn't pursuable CTAtheist Feb 2019 #108
And there's the precedent issue Yosemito Feb 2019 #121
So? theboss Feb 2019 #141
If "we" were ever in favor of "guilty by accusation", "we" were wrong - nt CTAtheist Feb 2019 #148
Congratulations! Lindsay Graham would approve... regnaD kciN Feb 2019 #162
Not sure who this "we" is people keep referring to CTAtheist Feb 2019 #165
Kav didn't have the job yet treestar Feb 2019 #203
The person making the accusation won't make further statement. David__77 Feb 2019 #125
Obviously not written by Fairfax. What, no conspiracy theories about Stoney? 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #129
Read her statement issued via her attorneys DeminPennswoods Feb 2019 #138
The kissing was consensual. BlueStater Feb 2019 #142
No, it effing doesn't. 58Sunliner Feb 2019 #143
Honestly, her story is not that credible DeminPennswoods Feb 2019 #147
Thank goodness for clearing that up. EllieBC Feb 2019 #145
Can't we believe them both? califootman Feb 2019 #150
No, we can't. Her description (which may or may not be true) makes... LAS14 Feb 2019 #160
I have read her statement and his statement. califootman Feb 2019 #178
You can't really split a baby in a rape case theboss Feb 2019 #186
Consent. Ah, there's the rub... califootman Feb 2019 #216
Unless you're a psychopath, it's pretty easy to tell when someone wants sex and when they don't. BlueStater Feb 2019 #199
This message was self-deleted by its author olsondr Feb 2019 #149
Post removed Post removed Feb 2019 #207
You should be ashamed obamanut2012 Feb 2019 #222
If Kavenaugh resigns so should Fairfax sellitman Feb 2019 #221
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