General Discussion

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)

74. Bullshit. Plenty of people LOUDLY proclaim Obama has assassinated American citizens

Reply to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 22, 2012, 02:25 PM

Aug 2012

without due process (Al Awlaki, OBL, Awlaki's 16 year old son). Plenty of people LOUDLY proclaim the illegality of Gitmo...

Its absolutely not true that DUers "make excuses" for people they agree with in politics if they are committing crimes. We have plenty of evidence right here on DU with the Weiner case (who actually did not commit a crime but suffered the consequences and howls of outrage from our side nonetheless), Obama, Rahm Emmanuel, etc. These boards are filled with people who strongly condemn people on "our side" without making any excuses for them, even as we like their politics.

That said, Assange's case has been badly tainted. Its condescending, simplistic and grossly unfair to paint DUers as dittoheads. Closing your eyes and ears to the evidence of malfeasance perpetrated on Assange and Wikileaks demonstrates an inability to understand the big picture and I'm sorry for all of you. "Simple" doesn't even begin to describe this case and its a shame that's all you can reduce it to.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

236 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

So let me see if I understand the 2 biggest hot button topics on DU [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 OP

I have to admit this conflation attempt is more creative than most. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2012 #1

The Assange situation has shown that progressives have a rape problem, too, pnwmom Aug 2012 #4

So, this is what this thread is about. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2012 #7

Only if that is what is desired. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #13

FYI pnwmom Aug 2012 #15

interesting facet to add to the conversation DonRedwood Aug 2012 #54

You are correct loyalsister Aug 2012 #17

+1. Rape is rape. Even if the accused is a DU hero. nt ecstatic Aug 2012 #63

+2. That's the problem, he's a "DU Hero", so now they have to try & defend the indefensible. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2012 #185

Do we get to try him first? Aerows Aug 2012 #206

The Assange case has shown that some Progressives have a problem with due sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #69

Between weed and copyright violations, I have a really hard time believing most DUers give ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #71

Gasp. The horrors. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2012 #152

I have no problems with people getting high and stealing shit, ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #160

You mean people here are insufficiently enthusiastic about imprisoning pot smokers? Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #153

I think you are misinterpreting my post. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #159

I don't do either, but I know a bad law when I see one. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #161

So, are you saying you don't really care about rule of law? ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #162

Do you think the State of Texas was right when it was throwing gay ppl. in jail for consensual sex? Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #163

I have already plainly stated that I do not care about rule of law. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #168

And you make no distinction between various laws? Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #175

I think each of us should determine for ourselves ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #178

Okay, well Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #179

Kudos for stating this plainly Aerows Aug 2012 #197

I am amazed by the common lack of understanding between the concepts ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #215

Of course I am unwilling to acknowledge an objective distinction between laws. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #214

Actually there are charges, in accordance with swedish law. Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #190

From your article, he has not been charged. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #191

Many people here, especially from the U.S. confuse U.S. and Swedish law. Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #194

"When people say, he has not been charged, they seem to use this..." Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #198

Dug. Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #200

Nah, Not really. I got your point. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #202

All-or-nothing thinking sucks. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2012 #165

By definition, rule of law is all-or-nothing thinking. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #169

Assange doesn't care about anyone but himself. pnwmom Aug 2012 #77

Well that's a substantive comment. It assumes first of all that all the sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #83

Amen and +1 Aerows Aug 2012 #205

+100 Cleita Aug 2012 #147

Sadly, rape is a human problem etherealtruth Aug 2012 #137

Well, yes, that would be wrong. But you don't think DirkGently Aug 2012 #144

You really should be ashamed of yourself Aerows Aug 2012 #195

LOL! How desperate do you have to be to try to link Assange to Akin? Poll_Blind Aug 2012 #2

How blind do you have to be not to see the similarity in people's defenses of the two? pnwmom Aug 2012 #3

You, and Rush: "Limbaugh: Liberals Would �Help A Thousand Rapists� To Free �One America-Hater�" Zorra Aug 2012 #22

Thanks for that info about Limbaugh, Zorra.. KoKo Aug 2012 #26

My pleasure, KoKo. I'm so tired of the constant posting of anti-Progressive RW talking points at DU. Zorra Aug 2012 #28

Don't expect anything different Aerows Aug 2012 #196

What did I say that you are specifically claiming is untrue? pnwmom Aug 2012 #65

Um, how about you saying "progressives have a rape problem" for starters? Zorra Aug 2012 #95

I am saying that there are people who do not understand rape pnwmom Aug 2012 #131

Who are these people? I too am sick of this attempt, rather than deal with sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #149

PNWMOM Aerows Aug 2012 #201

No, I'm saying that the details of criminal rape law aren't something taught pnwmom Aug 2012 #207

There are a bunch of women Aerows Aug 2012 #199

There are people here who don't understand that it's rape if you penetrate an pnwmom Aug 2012 #209

if you don't want to be linked to limbaugh and his supporters.. frylock Aug 2012 #128

You nailed it, Zorra. I saw the name of post and knew before I read it what it would say. October Aug 2012 #81

pwnmom has almost 40,000 posts. How is pwnmom a troll? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #91

I believe that would be the definition mythology Aug 2012 #141

We have a few that do damage control for the Republican party Aerows Aug 2012 #203

"There are many people" October Aug 2012 #80

Hogwash. 99Forever Aug 2012 #171

Which of the 2 positions are misrepresented? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #11

I am wondering if it HappyMe Aug 2012 #5

That's the point - it is Assange TBF Aug 2012 #6

Conspiracy trolls as well. HappyMe Aug 2012 #9

The U.S. Attorney General's words in 2010: ronnie624 Aug 2012 #20

Are you saying established progressive activists in Sweden Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #23

I try not to make claims I can't support with evidence. ronnie624 Aug 2012 #30

Define, "pulled out all the stops" Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #35

As far as I'm concerned, ronnie624 Aug 2012 #38

Your quotes were from AG Holder. He's DoJ, not CIA Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #42

Holder speaks for the existing power structure, as would the director of the CIA. ronnie624 Aug 2012 #55

"existing power structure" Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #70

Right, ronnie624 Aug 2012 #75

Only to those who make celebrities out of potential rapists Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #84

Potential rapists? GeorgeGist Aug 2012 #151

Wrong again. 99Forever Aug 2012 #174

That's "smart GIRL" to you. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #177

It ain't Sweden that's the problem, lady 99Forever Aug 2012 #187

What lie? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #208

When aren't they? 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2012 #10

If someone was setting him up, wouldn't they have given the women much better stories? pnwmom Aug 2012 #16

You haven't even heard their stories yet, ronnie624 Aug 2012 #36

"Poor translation" comes up a lot in those threads where Hugo Chavez Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #46

I didn't say it was a poor translation. ronnie624 Aug 2012 #56

I think you're hitting all the talking points today ... TBF Aug 2012 #60

'could be'. That's the difference there. randome Aug 2012 #49

lol - yeah I'm seeing "steadfastly objective" here TBF Aug 2012 #61

So if he had not done these things and it was just some bloke who'd happened to get to London treestar Aug 2012 #62

If he were "just some bloke" we wouldn't be TBF Aug 2012 #64

Right. Because he would have been picked up in Sweden for questioning pnwmom Aug 2012 #67

I am not one to feed into conspiracy theories normally - TBF Aug 2012 #85

If this was a set-up why didn't they give the two women better stories? pnwmom Aug 2012 #89

lol - it doesn't matter if the story is good TBF Aug 2012 #97

Your're claiming 2 established female progressives are really paid whores for the PTB? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #103

lol at your characterization - TBF Aug 2012 #105

You claim they are deliberately telling stories they know to be false to discredit Assange Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #109

I didn't say anything about your use of the word "whore" - but TBF Aug 2012 #116

Wait a minute. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #121

If they were setting him up, why didn't they give the women better stories? pnwmom Aug 2012 #66

The stories are very messy, if you take the trouble to actually sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #78

So you're suspicious because you are clueless about the Swedish legal system. jeff47 Aug 2012 #155

It's simpler than that ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #8

+100 HappyMe Aug 2012 #14

You got it. n/t pnwmom Aug 2012 #18

Excellent point. DU as ever is a microcosm. Robb Aug 2012 #21

Ain't that the truth? n/t X_Digger Aug 2012 #25

Wow, that's going to make a lasting impression slackmaster Aug 2012 #39

I don't pull punches ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #43

"Wow, that's going to leave a mark" Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #44

I haven't had coffee yet. I'll tone it down. slackmaster Aug 2012 #52

Friends don't let friend post without coffee Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #72

Bingo Bobbie Jo Aug 2012 #57

Oh, yes.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #58

Bullshit. Plenty of people LOUDLY proclaim Obama has assassinated American citizens riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #74

You sort of missed the mark there. Robb Aug 2012 #82

Someone's missed their mark and its not me.... riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #87

So we're NOT making excuses for Assange? Robb Aug 2012 #88

Tiresome, disingenuous and a repetitive slam to DUers who read the situation differently than you riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #99

And those who don't support him now should delight in Robb Aug 2012 #100

Using the exact same verbage as RW media shills? riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Bobbie Jo Aug 2012 #111

Uhm, 7 years. I joined in 2005 nt riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #115

My apologies. Bobbie Jo Aug 2012 #122

Not any more than "we" are convicting him because "we" hate Wikileaks. DirkGently Aug 2012 #148

That is not his view. Please provide evidence that it is his view sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #123

Osama bin Laden was an American citizen? Son of Gob Aug 2012 #106

To be fair I think he was refering to Awlaki and others; not UBL Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #113

No, he named 3 American citizens Obama assassinated Son of Gob Aug 2012 #117

I think post 118 is a fair and honest clarification Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #120

Clarified in 118, I meant to say Americans and non-Americans but if you'd like I'll go make an edit riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #126

Yep, criminal actions of killing Osama bin Laden Son of Gob Aug 2012 #127

"She". And thank you, yes, it was a general reference both to extra judicial assassinations of both riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #118

Nailed it... SidDithers Aug 2012 #124

No. If you disagree with the reason, it's an "excuse"; if you agree, it's an "explanation", because patrice Aug 2012 #176

The hypocrisy *is* a little mind boggling. n/t MadrasT Aug 2012 #12

Except that the two issues have only very superficial similarities and your post is a uber strawman. redgreenandblue Aug 2012 #19

A strawman argument relies on mischaracterizing an opponent's argument Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #24

Two points: redgreenandblue Aug 2012 #29

But those making excuses for Assange have non interest in discerning if a rape has been committed Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #37

I'd say that most of the fervor surrounding these claims pnwmom Aug 2012 #68

because supporting transparency in govt equals hero worship.. frylock Aug 2012 #129

No, ignoring sexual assaults pnwmom Aug 2012 #130

and as soon as those women state that they were sexually asaulted.. frylock Aug 2012 #133

Their lawyer said in June that they want the criminal investigation pnwmom Aug 2012 #134

i'm afraid that you're going to have to present evidence of that.. frylock Aug 2012 #136

No problem. pnwmom Aug 2012 #138

... Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #140

you posting that it is a strawman is a strawman snooper2 Aug 2012 #32

+1 Common sense Harmony Blue Aug 2012 #59

Please don't conflate all support for Assange redqueen Aug 2012 #27

+1 redgreenandblue Aug 2012 #33

I decline to see Obama in such nefarious terms. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #40

I also don't conflate Obama with America. nt redqueen Aug 2012 #41

He's the president, the Chief Executive. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #45

In many ways Obama is an impotent passive observer. GliderGuider Aug 2012 #92

Then tell me who can start or stop an extradition request. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #93

Talk about strawman! JackRiddler Aug 2012 #166

Yes. The Empire. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #173

When are you going to figure out the world doesn't revolve JackRiddler Aug 2012 #204

What utter tripe Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #210

Your point upthread really impresses me... JackRiddler Aug 2012 #212

You are really confused. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #217

Who said anything about a shadowy cabal? JackRiddler Aug 2012 #224

Everytime you complain about my characterizing your argument as an appeal to shadow governments Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #225

The difference is I don't mystify "shadow government." JackRiddler Aug 2012 #227

So Obama is sitting in the Oval Office one day Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #229

Your fantasy versions are of little concern... JackRiddler Aug 2012 #235

How is he being singled out for unfair treatment, exactly? Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #47

The whole case is a total legal disaster that cannot be justifiably prosecuted. Zorra Aug 2012 #98

No, it isn't. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #101

Could you post a source, or did you just make up the "pursuant to prosecution" part Zorra Aug 2012 #170

... Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #172

OMG! It's like a Monte Python skit. He's not charged, and Sweden is not really prosecuting him, Zorra Aug 2012 #181

The court can only judge whether the warrant is valid... Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #184

I know, but they said he did it. Slip of the tongue, or is someone presumed guilty before being Zorra Aug 2012 #186

It's not just that they said he did it, he said he did it. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #188

"if fairly and accurately described" reorg Aug 2012 #192

Apparently you have comprehension problems Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #211

LOL, right back atcha reorg Aug 2012 #213

Go here: Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #219

So? reorg Aug 2012 #220

Whether such a case exists or whether a trial will result in conviction is not at issue. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #221

at issue is your blatantly false claim that Assange "accepted the description reorg Aug 2012 #228

I linked you to the appeal judgement Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #230

your false claim is not supported anywhere in the linked appeal judgement reorg Aug 2012 #231

Except he does. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #232

This is getting boring, you make false claims, cannot support them reorg Aug 2012 #233

That context was examined and found to still constitute grounds for a charge of rape... Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #234

Oh, yeah. BTW, that does not prove that the case will/can be prosecuted. Zorra Aug 2012 #189

All depends on who's ox is getting gored. deaniac21 Aug 2012 #31

Interesting choice of words! randome Aug 2012 #51

pubic hair and circumcision n/t Enrique Aug 2012 #34

I imagine there are many people who believe LanternWaste Aug 2012 #48

Rape is a rape and it is a violent crime against women. Yet, some of those sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #73

WHY? Indeed! n/t KoKo Aug 2012 #143

Quick! Look over there!!! jeff47 Aug 2012 #156

Since we have closed Gitmo and left Afghanistan, what else can we argue about? AngryAmish Aug 2012 #50

no no no...have you ever done a post about nuclear power? DonRedwood Aug 2012 #53

Interesting point Renew Deal Aug 2012 #76

You forgot pubic shaving. undeterred Aug 2012 #79

I am appalled when ANYBODY parses the definition of rape. AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #86

Yes, we are all appalled when charges of misdemeanors are turned into charges sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #94

Parse away. Ugh. AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #96

What does have to do with my comment? sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #108

Better question: What does your comment have to do with the OP? AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #110

+1000 Bobbie Jo Aug 2012 #112

Rape is not the subject of this discussion? sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #114

Staying on point would require defending the point jeff47 Aug 2012 #158

+1000 dionysus Aug 2012 #154

+1. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #104

Thread win, hands down. Zorra Aug 2012 #119

Sure Bobbie Jo Aug 2012 #150

Ouch. That'll leave a mark. WilliamPitt Aug 2012 #90

I appreciate your attempt to marginalize complex scenarios by oversimplifying them LaydeeBug Aug 2012 #102

The hot button topic regarding Assange... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #125

We don't have any evidence of CIA Ops....but, KoKo Aug 2012 #132

Speaking of the JFK assassination, there's this from RawStory... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #135

Trying to read everything coming out...and parsing betwen the two or three sides.. KoKo Aug 2012 #139

If they were behaving like in a bond movie jeff47 Aug 2012 #157

At least it would make for a good mini-series or cable production.... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #167

My enlisted 19 year old niece was raped by a US soldier while stationed in Germany. cr8tvlde Aug 2012 #142

My humblest sympathy Karmasue Aug 2012 #164

!!! :-((( for your niece & +++ for this post. You are right, we don't KNOW. patrice Aug 2012 #180

Liberate us sexually so they won't have it available to divide and distract us. Fire Walk With Me Aug 2012 #145

Best comment of the day today. Cleita Aug 2012 #146

My first impulse is to always distrust what a government (or cop, or other power holder) has to say eilen Aug 2012 #182

i took note of that myself. nt seabeyond Aug 2012 #183

Sexual Violation isn't a game Aerows Aug 2012 #193

No, it isn't a game which is why Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #218

The last few days around here have certainly been surreal. cemaphonic Aug 2012 #216

This would make an excellent OP. Robb Aug 2012 #222

Excellent point... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #223

Republicans can create MIILLIONS of jobs HockeyMom Aug 2012 #226

That's about it. "Women lie about rape" pretty much sums it up. nt Honeycombe8 Aug 2012 #236