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phleshdef

(11,936 posts)

86. "The cases where public-private mixes function are rather tightly regulated markets" = Exactly...

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 12:31 PM

Dec 2011

...what I advocated a few posts ago as part of the real solution.

You are preaching to the choir about healthcare's importance and the ravages of the free market.

What I'm disagreeing with is the notion that you are going to get the American public to get over the demonization of socialized medicine (or even just socialized health insurance) anytime soon.

If the people aren't willing to put in place a government that grants us a single payer system, then we aren't going to get one. That doesn't excuse us from balancing our damn books. You can't just say "oh well, we'll just have to hold off on fixing Medicare's substainability problems until the electorate becomes progressive enough to save itself". That doesn't work.

Of course I don't actually want to cut anything that would deny life saving or quality of life preserving medical treatment to one single person. And of course I think we should fix these problems by increasing revenue and/or fundamentally and radically restructuring the system in a way that makes it affordable. And of course I'm not personally giving up on seeing this country achieve such things one day. But I'm also willing to face the truth of the situation whenever I'm not getting what I want. And the truth of the situation is, this country is not nearly deliberately progressive enough to give me what I want. After all that is considered, the books still need to be balanced.

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even though he wasnt convicted , the house did their job and impeached him. [View all] AllaN01Bear Feb 2021 OP

Up to?? He's only feeding his attention monkey. comipinko Dec 2011 #1

Easier for him to peel those off than a few conservative Republicans. nt greyl Dec 2011 #2

He isn't up to anything. HappyMe Dec 2011 #3

Desperate man in need of attention JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #4

Do you consider President Obama a liberal Democrat? Scuba Dec 2011 #5

Yes, I do. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #6

Yeah, but it's not about finding one person left or right of the President... Scuba Dec 2011 #7

Why do you think that he's a moderate Republican, if he's a Democrat? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #8

Because, in my world, Democrats hold true to Democratic values.... Scuba Dec 2011 #9

Which registered moderate Republican has positions that are just like President Obama's? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #12

Do you know any liberal Democrats who aren't willing to fight for Medicare for All? Who ... Scuba Dec 2011 #14

But what moderate Republican is he like? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #15

The actions he has taken fit him neatly into my definition of "moderate Republican"..... Scuba Dec 2011 #16

Is there another moderate Republican who is like him? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #18

You're confusing being a Republican or Democrat with acting like one. n/t Scuba Dec 2011 #20

Which moderate Republican is President Obama acting like? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #21

Barry Goldwater. n/t Scuba Dec 2011 #22

What "states rights" positions does Barack Obama support? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #23

What "liberal Democrat" positions does President Obama support? Scuba Dec 2011 #24

I saw this really good list of lists. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #25

This is the one I usually use when defending him, which is often.... Scuba Dec 2011 #26

I think that the liberal Democrats have decided that they like him. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #27

The like him a lot more than the alternatives, that's for sure.... Scuba Dec 2011 #28

I am and always have been a liberal. I like him better than any Republican but.. Little Star Dec 2011 #30

He says Civil Rights should be up to the States Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #58

He doesn't because he is Republican regular ala Bob Dole, Condeleeza Rice, Poppy Bush, TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #42

I believe he is speaking historically kenfrequed Dec 2011 #75

Liberalism is not defined by one issue. And you don't get to define the standards for what... phleshdef Dec 2011 #66

Sorry, but a healthcare plan that requires Americans to purchase.... Scuba Dec 2011 #67

Like I said, its not up to you. You can tell yourself white means black if you'd like. phleshdef Dec 2011 #68

And you can tell yourself that Obama is a liberal, but he's not. n /t Scuba Dec 2011 #69

The vast majority of Americans disagree with you on that and likely as does he. phleshdef Dec 2011 #70

You're right of course. I'm afraid I'm too old school.... Scuba Dec 2011 #71

Doing things your way would mean rejecting unemployment extensions and letting Medicare be killed... phleshdef Dec 2011 #72

You know nothing of what I think or care about. n/t Scuba Dec 2011 #73

The idea of medicare being killed under its own weight is absurd kenfrequed Dec 2011 #76

No, its not absurd. Its math. Though I think we both agree on the right solution. phleshdef Dec 2011 #78

I noticed kenfrequed Dec 2011 #82

"Profit" is not illegal. And I don't think the American public is ideologically ready to make it so. phleshdef Dec 2011 #84

Strawman kenfrequed Dec 2011 #85

"The cases where public-private mixes function are rather tightly regulated markets" = Exactly... phleshdef Dec 2011 #86

Because he is to the right of Richard Nixon. ozone_man Dec 2011 #47

That wouldn't make him a Republican, though. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #52

Correct by modern definition. ozone_man Dec 2011 #88

Erm, a post-partisan? joshcryer Dec 2011 #53

I think so. n/t ozone_man Dec 2011 #89

Not only do you consider the president a liberal, but so do the majority of Americans Number23 Dec 2011 #79

I'm not sure that he does... freshwest Dec 2011 #10

man aint that the truth SwampG8r Dec 2011 #54

In 2008 he targeted a centrist Democrat who has proven to be a...centrist Democrat. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #11

My impression was that Ralph Nader was going to support a progressive Democrat. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #13

So? If none appear, should he support a centrist? Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #17

He can support who he wants to. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #19

and how DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #31

Why would I want to get mushy independents to vote for a mushy centrist? Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #48

You miss the question DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #49

You miss the point. I don't vote for centrists of either of the establishment parties. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #56

Florida was decided DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #91

Seriously, who knows? Rex Dec 2011 #29

I believe the problem is with your definition of "Liberal Democrat". Edweird Dec 2011 #32

It's not mine, it's Gallup's. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #34

Ok, soooo what's the question again? Edweird Dec 2011 #35

Ralph Nader want to put up a primary challenger who appeals to liberal Democrats. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #38

Again, we're back to the definition of "Liberal Democrat". Edweird Dec 2011 #39

Welcome to DU3...sigh. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #33

Because he is a Republican. n/t BlueToTheBone Dec 2011 #36

Obama is a center-right dem themadstork Dec 2011 #37

Because he saw his shadow as we enter the next election season. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #40

He just received the income reports from the last quarter. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #55

Obama is not a liberal Democrat. Beacool Dec 2011 #41

neither was Hillary DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #50

If Nader runs, GOP election officials can siphon more votes from the Dem to him McCamy Taylor Dec 2011 #43

Funny how Grover gets around DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #51

How can he challenge in a primary? mmonk Dec 2011 #44

Your definition of "Liberal Democrat" is busted. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #45

What is my definition of "liberal Democrat"? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #46

You say the President is 'liberal' yet he opposes equal rights Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #57

What minorities are you thinking of? brooklynite Dec 2011 #59

If you have to ask that question, man..... Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #61

That's what I thought you meant, but I wanted to be sure... brooklynite Dec 2011 #74

The original post is about Nader targeting liberal Democratic voters. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #62

You're saying this to defend Nader? Nader who called the fight for gay rights "Gonad politics?!?!" stevenleser Dec 2011 #94

Are there other minority groups you think one can Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #60

What I always say libodem Dec 2011 #63

Obama isn't a liberal because he supports equal rights to do conservative things, not liberal things saras Dec 2011 #64

I clarified the original post. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #65

I'll take because he's a narcissistic douchebag for $1000, Alex. 11 Bravo Dec 2011 #77

I think Nader, as always, is concerned about the direction of the country slay Dec 2011 #80

he's a spoiler pitohui Dec 2011 #81

If by 'paying him under the table' kenfrequed Dec 2011 #83

Obama is NOW a liberal democrat?!?!?!? Just in time for the election, right fascisthunter Dec 2011 #87

Since 'the majority of liberal Dems support Obama', I assume you'll blame centrists if he loses? Marr Dec 2011 #90

Because his ideas are liberal! Uranus Needs Men Dec 2011 #92

Because the Republicans pay him to challenge Democrats? AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #93

Ooh more Nader. Thanks, if it weren't for you I'd forget he was alive... SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #95