General Discussion

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)

190. You cannot mix high-speed passenger trains...

Fri Feb 15, 2019, 03:20 PM

Feb 2019

With freight trains on the same track, UNLESS you are running multiple main lines (minimum 4) as in the Northeast corridor.

High speed passenger rail requires:

Heavier rail.
Different curve geometry.
Elimination of ALL crossings, which mean over/underpasses everywhere.

Do not get me wrong, I would love to see high-speed rail in places like the Texas Triangle, and other places, but it requires all new track, with all the problems that entail.

You are correct that RRs have no incentive to upgrade. They have abandoned thousands of miles of track, because it does not fit their current model of unit trains (no switching and 2 person crews). They ran off the small businesses and towns that they used to serve. Just like airlines have abandoned smaller cities. They do not want, nor will they accept passenger trains on their track without billions in subsidies.

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Why Train Travel in the United States Makes No Sense [View all] MineralMan Feb 2019 OP

So, for that reason, are you opposed to the "Green New Deal"? True Dough Feb 2019 #1

High Speed Rail is just one aspect of that. MineralMan Feb 2019 #4

I didn't think that. I asked a question True Dough Feb 2019 #33

Well, if the plan is to seriously curtail air travel.... Adrahil Feb 2019 #53

I would definitely take a high speed train coast to coast and delisen Feb 2019 #90

Agree! I would take high speed rail in a minute. lkinwi Feb 2019 #104

Well sure, GWC58 Feb 2019 #159

I worked for 17 years as a brakeman / conductor MicaelS Feb 2019 #9

Paris to Marseille - just under 500 miles - 3 hours with two stops GoneOffShore Feb 2019 #153

I've done that trip several times. Voltaire2 Feb 2019 #157

So what? MicaelS Feb 2019 #170

Touchy - I was merely pointing out the that it's pratical for longer distances than you said. GoneOffShore Feb 2019 #182

How do you plan to deal with aquiring the land? MicaelS Feb 2019 #191

The right of way exists. No need to declare eminent domain. GoneOffShore Feb 2019 #199

What ROW? MicaelS Feb 2019 #200

It's been managed in Europe and China. GoneOffShore Feb 2019 #204

This is a critique of ownership and operations, not engineering. apnu Feb 2019 #189

You cannot mix high-speed passenger trains... MicaelS Feb 2019 #190

You got that out of MM's post? Hekate Feb 2019 #99

Allow me to repeat my response to him (slightly revised for pronoun use) True Dough Feb 2019 #106

Agree with you exboyfil Feb 2019 #2

Regional train travel makes much more sense than cross country MANative Feb 2019 #3

Within the Central Atlantic Region, MineralMan Feb 2019 #7

You're right that I often do hop in the car, especially to Boston MANative Feb 2019 #16

And yet it's cheaper to fly from IAD or DCA to JFK than to take the train Recursion Feb 2019 #113

i've always lived in the NYC metro area crazycatlady Feb 2019 #15

Metro-North every damn day MANative Feb 2019 #21

This Ferrets are Cool Feb 2019 #161

Just wondering onlyadream Feb 2019 #162

I've never taken the Bolt bus, so I can't help on that MANative Feb 2019 #164

The idea is to replace current railroads with high speed technology linking cities. hedda_foil Feb 2019 #5

but but they want to compare their dream trip around the world and talk about how rail won't help TeamPooka Feb 2019 #10

Perhaps. Assuming that there is enough traffic between two cities MineralMan Feb 2019 #11

Chicago to Miami fwvinson Feb 2019 #65

Yeah, maybe. MineralMan Feb 2019 #72

Too long exboyfil Feb 2019 #128

+1 violetpastille Feb 2019 #24

East of the Mississippi, different story BeyondGeography Feb 2019 #6

So it's all about you? GeorgeGist Feb 2019 #8

Depends on the day and the airline. MineralMan Feb 2019 #13

It is always about the individual. It is individual people who travel. MineralMan Feb 2019 #19

True, but if you were not in a hurry, doesn't that include three meals/day for each of those days? hlthe2b Feb 2019 #12

I don't know. I haven't been on a train in years. MineralMan Feb 2019 #14

sure but costwise, if 18 meals are included plus bed, that isn't such a bad price for a long trip hlthe2b Feb 2019 #31

The price I quoted is for a coach seat on the train. MineralMan Feb 2019 #34

No. Amtrak will sell you food. They do not give you food. Maru Kitteh Feb 2019 #45

Pretzels? MineralMan Feb 2019 #55

Hence the "technically" lol. Pretzels Maru Kitteh Feb 2019 #59

Sure. Pretzels are food. MineralMan Feb 2019 #73

Food is free if you have a sleeper wryter2000 Feb 2019 #85

The food is free for people with sleeper cars wryter2000 Feb 2019 #84

I did Oakland to Denver this past summer wryter2000 Feb 2019 #80

Sounds like a nice trip... I hope you don't mind my asking details.... hlthe2b Feb 2019 #97

I did it one way wryter2000 Feb 2019 #102

Train travel can be great for trips less than a few hundred miles. tinrobot Feb 2019 #17

I think the highest and best use of trains/high speed rail ewagner Feb 2019 #83

Agree, HSR would benefit metro areas radius777 Feb 2019 #151

So explain to me why ocean liners exist? N/T flotsam Feb 2019 #18

Well, only a few exist, really. Most travel by ship is on cruise lines. MineralMan Feb 2019 #20

Speaking of cruises Rorey Feb 2019 #47

I've never been tempted by a cruise, really. MineralMan Feb 2019 #52

Additionally Rorey Feb 2019 #60

My wife and I have been on exactly one cruise. DFW Feb 2019 #146

My daughter went on a cruise exboyfil Feb 2019 #129

Inexpensive accommodations Rorey Feb 2019 #138

So you're saying flotsam Feb 2019 #50

Sure. For people who enjoy that, it's great. MineralMan Feb 2019 #54

There is only one ocean liner in regular service - the Queen Mary 2 hack89 Feb 2019 #96

Depends on how you parse the term flotsam Feb 2019 #107

They're not provinding A to B transportation BannonsLiver Feb 2019 #111

Has nothing to do with size hack89 Feb 2019 #112

Well there's this: flotsam Feb 2019 #122

And there is this hack89 Feb 2019 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author flotsam Feb 2019 #118

A high speed rail line from St. Paul to Milwaukee, though? gratuitous Feb 2019 #22

That's a 5 hour drive, max. MineralMan Feb 2019 #25

Have you driven Portland to Seattle? gratuitous Feb 2019 #35

Not for many years. MineralMan Feb 2019 #38

Unless you leave before the sun comes up, as my wife and I did when we lived north of Seattle. Garrett78 Feb 2019 #86

Chicago To StL ProfessorGAC Feb 2019 #41

My wife and I took the train from Chicago to Bloomington-Normal MineralMan Feb 2019 #49

On That Drive, You Drove Just Passed Our Town! ProfessorGAC Feb 2019 #94

I thought it was interesting what parts of towns the train MineralMan Feb 2019 #168

We're A Small Town ProfessorGAC Feb 2019 #175

They finally banned the train from using its horn MineralMan Feb 2019 #177

I have friends in small rail towns in Oregon KitSileya Feb 2019 #194

Here in St. Paul, MN, the RR right-of-way is a highway for MineralMan Feb 2019 #195

Not sure if you have travelled there over many years tritsofme Feb 2019 #148

I haven't been to Normal for quite a long time. My wife's MineralMan Feb 2019 #167

I hadn't been there since around the same time until this past year. tritsofme Feb 2019 #188

Rail service doesn't mean from every city to every other city. brooklynite Feb 2019 #23

OK. My question is whether there is enough traffic MineralMan Feb 2019 #27

COnsider that a flight NYC-CHI is about 2 hours... brooklynite Feb 2019 #40

Stopping at every town is my issue as well Thew Feb 2019 #117

That's fine until Peak Oil actually hits LongtimeAZDem Feb 2019 #26

Correct, if speed to arrive is the only concern. mobeau69 Feb 2019 #28

Leisure travel, I think, is not the goal for HSR, frankly. MineralMan Feb 2019 #29

To many, like me, it would be a welcome benefit none-the-less. mobeau69 Feb 2019 #43

Canada would disagree flotsam Feb 2019 #56

Wouldn't work for me. Destinations are my thing, not the journey. MineralMan Feb 2019 #57

Oh flotsam Feb 2019 #62

I didn't suggest that in any way. MineralMan Feb 2019 #63

I would dispute "many" brooklynite Feb 2019 #48

Two stories here. Actually, three. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #141

High speed where it makes sense, I don't recall proposals saying it was all or nothing 😉 MLAA Feb 2019 #30

High speed rail would work JustAnotherGen Feb 2019 #32

I think in some areas high-speed rail could be a viable option. WeekiWater Feb 2019 #36

Amtrak from Boston to NYC or DC is fast, cheap, and comfortable. Croney Feb 2019 #37

Sounds like a good road trip...especially in February! MineralMan Feb 2019 #74

Acela is great (Philly to Boston) MH1 Feb 2019 #132

Amtrak in the northeast corridor is great! smirkymonkey Feb 2019 #205

Yes! All this, plus you feel like you're living history as the sights go whizzing by. Croney Feb 2019 #206

:) smirkymonkey Feb 2019 #207

- Bigredhunk Feb 2019 #39

From MN to CA, with current infrastructure, of course it doesn't make sense. DanTex Feb 2019 #42

Lots of flights making that trip every day. MineralMan Feb 2019 #75

I'm sure there are, but like I said, it's not a heavily traveled route, comparatively speaking. DanTex Feb 2019 #91

The Europeans figured it out long ago. DFW Feb 2019 #150

The only problem with the Dallas-Houston trip is that once I get to Dallas, I still need a car theboss Feb 2019 #108

After the traffic during my last trip to L.A. DFW Feb 2019 #147

When I used to travel to dc a lot JustAnotherGen Feb 2019 #137

Non stop train service from Chicago to NY would never happen Kaleva Feb 2019 #165

Beijing - Shanghai is a comparable distance, and currently is 4.5 hours by train. DanTex Feb 2019 #178

Yep, and high-speed rail would lessen the time but not the price. brush Feb 2019 #44

It's because we're not investing in the infrastructure. backscatter712 Feb 2019 #46

Well, that's part of the problem. MineralMan Feb 2019 #78

I respectfully disagree. Comparison to Europe or China don't work. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #93

We used to have lots of rail. backscatter712 Feb 2019 #100

It also went away for a reason. theboss Feb 2019 #109

Of course we had lots of rail. Before air travel and interstates GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #127

I admit I would like a route from Indy to Chicago. Adrahil Feb 2019 #51

Many years ago, I took a trip from Syracuse, NY to Indianapolis MineralMan Feb 2019 #61

i think wording in op is too strong Midnightwalk Feb 2019 #58

It made sense to connect Pittsburgh to Cincinnati the train that Kasich derailed in terms of Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #64

How many passengers a day do you think that train would MineralMan Feb 2019 #70

I grew up outside Pittsburgh. I've been in Cincinnati once in my life theboss Feb 2019 #110

We will never know. You are confusing long term trail with commuter rails which is what Cincy to Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #208

Eliminating one option because it doesn't serve all purposes makes no sense. Hortensis Feb 2019 #66

Mileage St Paul to Los Angeles is 1930 miles flotsam Feb 2019 #67

Carbon Footprint of travel from Minneapolis to LA jalan48 Feb 2019 #68

Not that simple to compare those two things Major Nikon Feb 2019 #155

Good info. I think the idea would be to build mass, train transit between major population areas. jalan48 Feb 2019 #156

The fact that one very long trip takes too long is a poor reason to denounce trains caraher Feb 2019 #69

Good post...and you need a heart! Sancho Feb 2019 #160

Talking today, I would agree generally; though passenger rail is both justifiable and viable even KPN Feb 2019 #71

we take a train every few months to Chicago from downstate, the only way to go...but then thats beachbum bob Feb 2019 #76

Just because you are not interested in going by train, does not mean PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #77

It may not work from St. Paul to LA wryter2000 Feb 2019 #79

Just off the top of my head(opinion). Afromania Feb 2019 #81

My wife and I take the train to Chicago once or twice a year jcgoldie Feb 2019 #82

It makes a hell of a lot of sense on the East Coast Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #87

Is your car environmentally friendly or a climate destroying pollution spewer? delisen Feb 2019 #88

I doubt if this country will invest in high speed rail, frankly. MineralMan Feb 2019 #89

Good for you! I drive a 2005 sedan and mostly keep my mileage delisen Feb 2019 #123

I'm fine with air travel, actually. MineralMan Feb 2019 #124

Good for you. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #142

Did you know our locomotives burn diesel fuel to drive electric generators to move the wheels.? pwb Feb 2019 #92

Wow, DUers. 94 replies and only 4 Recs. Let me amend that with the 5th Rec. I had a sick Mom, too Hekate Feb 2019 #95

There is usually a reason for that. pwb Feb 2019 #121

How do you Rec a thread? Polybius Feb 2019 #187

Go back to the Original Post, and look at the bottom left below it. An icon that says DU Rec... Hekate Feb 2019 #192

Mom & Dad went from So Cal to live in Salt Lake City. He died a year or so later, but she lived on Hekate Feb 2019 #98

This is an important issue. Aging parents who live far from children. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #143

I've ridden Amtrak from Santa Barbara to San Diego a number of times & enjoyed it... Hekate Feb 2019 #154

If we had a high speed rail back bone like other countries, it would not be 3 days. karynnj Feb 2019 #101

yes, we need infrastructure in so many areas librechik Feb 2019 #103

But, we don't have that infrastructure. MineralMan Feb 2019 #114

Honestly, water and sewer is the desperately needed infrasctructure project that no one discusses theboss Feb 2019 #173

Yes, indeed. In fact, we had no water in our house yesterday MineralMan Feb 2019 #174

Like most issues, "One Size Fits All" doesn't work for high speed rail. Still In Wisconsin Feb 2019 #105

Who goes from MSP to Milwaukee? MineralMan Feb 2019 #120

For a Brewers-Twins game of course! Still In Wisconsin Feb 2019 #134

It would work in some corridors Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2019 #115

But I want to go from San Jose to Los Angeles! Retrograde Feb 2019 #116

You can drive it in about six hours. That's just a few hours. MineralMan Feb 2019 #119

My daughter takes Amtrak from Portland to Tacoma all the time. Works great. Pobeka Feb 2019 #125

LA to San Fran, and Chicago to NYC are the 2 highest air traveled routes in the US Arazi Feb 2019 #126

Let me offer another perspective with my parent. TygrBright Feb 2019 #131

I want to be her! Phentex Feb 2019 #133

Bingo! PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #144

If certain people thought like you in the 20th century Mr. Quackers Feb 2019 #135

Eventually air travel isn't going to be economical, either due to not being able... Humanist_Activist Feb 2019 #136

And not just for passengers. meadowlander Feb 2019 #193

I dont know standingtall Feb 2019 #139

I will need to be in New York for a cruise that I booked late September. mnhtnbb Feb 2019 #140

You have the right idea. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #145

I would love to take a train trip Raine Feb 2019 #149

For one thing, Congress does not adequately fund Amtrak DeminPennswoods Feb 2019 #152

Sorry but that is just bullshit. Voltaire2 Feb 2019 #158

Why not read the OP first before declaring it bullshit? Kaleva Feb 2019 #163

I read it. You identified where it is not a good option Voltaire2 Feb 2019 #166

It will work over short hauls Apollyonus Feb 2019 #169

We met a woman on our train trip who refused to fly. R B Garr Feb 2019 #171

Upgrading Amtrak/Acela on the East Coast NewJeffCT Feb 2019 #172

DC to NY, NY to Boston. Train is the only way to go. empedocles Feb 2019 #176

We've driven CT to DC several times NewJeffCT Feb 2019 #183

Know what you mean. We've driven many dozens of times DC to Waterbury area empedocles Feb 2019 #184

Having a rail system is a matter of National security Drahthaardogs Feb 2019 #179

Tell that to 'con Congress. empedocles Feb 2019 #181

Nope, that is what Interstate highways are for. MicaelS Feb 2019 #196

Nope. Drahthaardogs Feb 2019 #198

We have a perfectly adequate freight rail system to move troops and equipment. hack89 Feb 2019 #197

Wife and I took Amtrak cross country DC to LA/SF - Delightful empedocles Feb 2019 #180

Except there are those of us who won't put up with being Panich52 Feb 2019 #185

I am actually very, VERY surprised Polybius Feb 2019 #186

When I Was Little My Family Used to Take the Train from LA to Detroit & the Trip Took 3 Days dlk Feb 2019 #201

High speed electric buses that go 120 mph and use dedicated lanes adjacent to Anon-C Feb 2019 #202

I take Amtrak several times a year. HeiressofBickworth Feb 2019 #203

I've taken Amtrak from Chicago to Glacier National Park MountCleaners Feb 2019 #209