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kennetha

(3,666 posts)
Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:00 PM Feb 2019

Socialism is not the same as a MIXED Economy [View all]

Last edited Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Contrary to what some apparently under-informed and historically under-educated Sanders supporters, and also way too many Republicans, seem to want you to think, it is simply not true that wherever any social goods are provided by the government, rather than the market, one has "socialism."

A MIXED economy employs both market mechanisms and non-market mechanism to distribute various goods.

If you look around the world, mixed economies come in a wide variety, and vary in the degree of their dependence on market mechanisms vs non-market mechanisms. Mixed economies also involve greater and lesser degrees of regulation of the market and greater or less degree of taxation, with tax schemes being more or less broadly based, and more or less progressive or regressive, from nation to nation.

Like most developed democracies in the world, the US has a mixed economy. It has a great deal of private, rather than collective ownership of the "means of production" but also various social welfare programs, run by governments at various levels, that are not driven by market forces alone.

The mixed economy was one of the greatest advances in political economy of 20th century. It is NOT a form of socialism. It is, in fact, a way to PRESERVE the core of capitalism, while simultaneously giving capitalism a human face. It thus is a way of SAVING capitalism and REDUCING the lure of socialism.

European Social Democratic Parties would bristle at the idea of being called Democratic Socialists. They are often in fact, bitter opponents of Democratic socialism.

Democratic Socialism is, as its name and history implies, about the democratic ownership and control of the "means of production." It tends toward, for example, the nationalization of various industries, the abolition or seizure of private property. The Soviet Union was socialist, but very much ANTI-Democratic. Democratic Socialists are definitely NOT Soviet Style totalitarians to be sure, but they are SOCIALIST. They are opposed to capitalism. Democratic Socialist parties of days gone by were bitterly opposed to Soviet Style totalitarianism, not because of its socialism, but because it was so anti-democratic. Huge debates took place over many years among various socialist movements.

The Democratic Party of America has never been a SOCIALIST party, but it has a lot in common with European Social Democratic Parties.

Bernie Sanders obfuscates these distinctions, seemingly on purpose. Perhaps because he knows that Socialism, whether of the discredited Soviet variety or of the much more palatable Democratic variety, would be a hard sell in the US.

The Republicans also obfuscate these distinctions, because they seem to want a pure, laissez fare form of Capitalism that eviscerates the welfare state in the apparent belief that the Mixed Economy was a terrible idea all along and just the leading edge of true Socialism

Personally I reject both the obfuscation of Sanders and the obfuscation of the Republicans. I am a proud democrat. What would be called a Social Democrat in Europe. I fully believe in the Mixed Economy, as the democratic party has almost always done.

The trick is not to abolish capitalism but to harness its creative (and destructive) potential while simultaneously use the instruments of the Mixed Economy .. the greatest innovation in political economy of the 20th Century .. to give capitalism a human face. That means achieving the right mix of market and non-market distribution schemes, that means regulating markets in a way that keeps them open and competitive, rather than dominated by monopolies, that means a tax system that both incentivizes investment and innovation but also spreads the benefits thereof to the populace at large.

This is what the Democratic Party has long stood for. And even when that party most resembled the Social Democratic Parties of Europe, Bernie was still on the side of Democratic Socialism. Wonder why that is? Cause he is not a European style Social Democrat nor an American style Democrat, but a true blue Democratic Socialist. Or so it seems to me.

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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You'll never convince them... brooklynite Feb 2019 #1
Nice insult to Some fellow Democrats Sherman A1 Feb 2019 #2
I'm afraid I don't see the "insult." kennetha Feb 2019 #4
Then we see it Sherman A1 Feb 2019 #5
you could try explaining yourself kennetha Feb 2019 #7
From the OP Sherman A1 Feb 2019 #8
That's just a plain fact. kennetha Feb 2019 #9
It is fact only in Your Opinion Sherman A1 Feb 2019 #12
I doubt any Sanders supporter would help Trump win in 2020 because a DU'er said something "mean" emulatorloo Feb 2019 #16
how, exactly, is pointing out that a mixed economy is not ipso facto "socialism" divisive? kennetha Feb 2019 #18
I understand your confusion. shanny Feb 2019 #28
I'm told BS is "authentic." He tells me he's a "Democratic Socialist." CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #45
When there is market failure then government delivers the service/product better. applegrove Feb 2019 #3
Mixed economies need to exist in part because kennetha Feb 2019 #6
Mixed market economies are everywhere in the world except for North Korea. applegrove Feb 2019 #10
Even the Chinese have gotten wise on that score. kennetha Feb 2019 #19
assuming the balance is right. shanny Feb 2019 #30
Not at all kennetha Feb 2019 #34
Values of the country are about equity and/or efficiency. Government applegrove Feb 2019 #11
Governments are not innovative and risk taking sfwriter Feb 2019 #31
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2019 #13
nah. do a little research kennetha Feb 2019 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2019 #15
you mean like this: kennetha Feb 2019 #17
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2019 #20
huh? kennetha Feb 2019 #21
Exactly sfwriter Feb 2019 #33
Words matter indeed, especially in English. Democratic Socialism does not equal Social Democracy. haele Feb 2019 #22
K&R kennetha Feb 2019 #23
Excellent post. And true. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #24
K&R kennetha Feb 2019 #25
A Democratic Socialist was the original chair of the Progressive Caucas JonLP24 Feb 2019 #27
Read up on the progressive movement. It has an ugly history. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #32
I'm talking about the term progressive from 1991 to now JonLP24 Feb 2019 #36
Excellent post. But the title of progressive is very dicey in the south. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #39
I'm a Sanders supporter and back Keynesian economics JonLP24 Feb 2019 #26
I am not posting to insult you or get into a fight. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #35
Socialists will probably tell you most Democratic Socialists are liberals JonLP24 Feb 2019 #37
And I hope your benefits are expanded under our next president. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #40
The VA isn't socialism. CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #46
Everything is in Democratic Socialist countries JonLP24 Feb 2019 #47
Actually, words do not have fixed meanings in all cases. Caliman73 Feb 2019 #38
Interesting article. But your history is wrong. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #43
All economies are mixed Farmer-Rick Feb 2019 #29
It does frost me when folks say FDR was a socialist. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2019 #41
exactly kennetha Feb 2019 #42
Or they will say The New Deal didn't pull us out of the Depression. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2019 #44
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