General Discussion

WhiskeyGrinder

(26,135 posts)

24. Fair enough. She's still right.

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 01:21 PM

Mar 2019

Our country was founded on white supremacy. FDR oversaw racist policies. They were racist then, judged by 1931 standards, because these policies existed because people believed institutionalizing white supremacy was the best thing for the country. New policies were built on top of older white supremacist policies upholding those policies.

None of that undoes the good that the New Deal did do -- but it's vital that we recognize and talk about the failures of otherwise successful programs in the past. If we're going to aim high -- and we certainly must -- then we need to be honest about what policies were racist and we must talk about how to undo those policies most effectively. That work is not an attack, and reacting like it is only hampers the work.

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Love it when AOC pushes Wingnuts' buttons; not so much mine about FDR [View all] UTUSN Mar 2019 OP

I mean, she's not wrong. Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2019 #1

Justice FRANKFURTER, above. Baby/bathwater, above. UTUSN Mar 2019 #2

Really? whathehell Mar 2019 #13

Some recommended reading: PETRUS Mar 2019 #22

We're talking about the New Deal specifically.. whathehell Mar 2019 #26

The Federal Housing Administration was part of the New Deal. PETRUS Mar 2019 #27

So spell out how the Federal Housing Authority, as instituted whathehell Mar 2019 #30

No. PETRUS Mar 2019 #36

You don't have time to explain what you're talking about, yet you want us to read a book... George II Mar 2019 #43

FDR's administration made no attempt to prevent denial of loans to Blacks, Blue_true Mar 2019 #67

Then bag it, dear whathehell Mar 2019 #70

Here's something short of reading a book caraher Mar 2019 #47

Truman, Kennedy and Johnson tried to do something about redlining, Blue_true Mar 2019 #71

Thank you fot posting this. Love to see people shown facts Celerity Mar 2019 #162

Redlining. femmedem Mar 2019 #54

He allowed local officials and banks to redline, the Feds could have prevented that. Blue_true Mar 2019 #64

Read The Atlantic article "The Case for Reparations" and you'll see Merlot Mar 2019 #95

Here is the working link (thank you, btw): demmiblue Mar 2019 #99

The FHA (Federal Housing Authority) was created as part of the new deal Blue_true Mar 2019 #60

And women too...nt 2naSalit Mar 2019 #94

True leaders push for what is right, even when there is stiff resistance. Blue_true Mar 2019 #58

Sure, handling the Great Depression AND World War II was a piece whathehell Mar 2019 #73

LOL, isn't that convenient? Mariana Mar 2019 #81

When defending FDR's record on racial policies, namahage Mar 2019 #93

Um, no, that would be the Great Depression PLUS World War Ii whathehell Mar 2019 #98

I have relatives that would have disagreed he couldn't have handled the war any better. Tiggeroshii Mar 2019 #131

Sure, and I have relatives who would argue with them.. whathehell Mar 2019 #159

Tel ya what. Tiggeroshii Mar 2019 #164

Tell ya what. whathehell Mar 2019 #165

AOC didn't argue that FDR didn't do some exceptional things. Blue_true Mar 2019 #96

But he wasn't PERFECT! NastyRiffraff Mar 2019 #144

Who the hell said he WAS? whathehell Mar 2019 #156

Wagner Act of 1935 allowed unions to discriminate on the basis of race, for one Spider Jerusalem Mar 2019 #78

Do you have any idea how racist Abe Lincoln would seem today? whathehell Mar 2019 #80

The New Deal did not benefit all Americans, though, is the point (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Mar 2019 #83

Oh yes PatSeg Mar 2019 #120

Yes, Lincoln would definitely fail whathehell Mar 2019 #167

Oh you're welcome PatSeg Mar 2019 #168

Thanks, PatSeg.. whathehell Mar 2019 #171

Yes I certainly have an idea how Lincoln would seem today. Caliman73 Mar 2019 #175

."a nation built on racism and sexism"? How about a World built on them? whathehell Mar 2019 #176

New Deal coalition was held in place by Jim Crow radius777 Mar 2019 #126

That's one opinion.. whathehell Mar 2019 #160

Didn't redlining start under FDR? DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #65

On Ignorance Horizens Mar 2019 #109

"FDR/Eleanor, were tireless, absolutely relentless in pushing for equal rights" Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2019 #110

If Horizens Mar 2019 #111

If you knew any history, you'd know that FDR started it with an EO. Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2019 #133

"but on race relations he fell way short" whathehell Mar 2019 #173

You like to make excuses for locking up US citizens based on race. Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2019 #178

Post removed Post removed Mar 2019 #179

What I like is calling out things as racist which are racist and not having Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2019 #180

Sure..Uh huh..Right.. whathehell Mar 2019 #181

This... yuiyoshida Mar 2019 #127

+10000 Celerity Mar 2019 #163

I'm with you there.. whathehell Mar 2019 #3

Yay for you and me! Maybe she should try judging by 1931 standards!1 UTUSN Mar 2019 #4

Correct.. whathehell Mar 2019 #9

Yeahbut.....was he "pure"? George II Mar 2019 #48

Lol!.. Exactly!. They push against purity tests in the present whathehell Mar 2019 #103

I agree Bettie Mar 2019 #6

Exactly.. She's disappointingly short sighted there whathehell Mar 2019 #8

The very same viewpoint is expressed here Bettie Mar 2019 #62

The racist policies of the New Deal were racist then, and are racist now. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2019 #17

Being so sure of that claim, I'm sure you're able to.tell us just what whathehell Mar 2019 #23

Sure. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2019 #29

The Racial Inequities in the New Deal were not totally the Fault of the President whathehell Mar 2019 #39

Seems like maybe you're moving the goalposts caraher Mar 2019 #49

Seems like maybe you are.. whathehell Mar 2019 #53

I'm not slamming FDR caraher Mar 2019 #86

She was slamming him whathehell Mar 2019 #102

So you know what benefits AOC better than she does? BlueWI Mar 2019 #121

Lol..We're not here to "benefit" AOC -- Her job is to benefit the citizens whathehell Mar 2019 #155

AOC mentioned a very common historical conclusion BlueWI Mar 2019 #169

As others here have noted, her "conclusion" regarding whathehell Mar 2019 #170

I mentioned Social Security in my last post. BlueWI Mar 2019 #172

I've already addressed that issue. whathehell Mar 2019 #174

OK, now we have what she actually said caraher Mar 2019 #149

Lol.. What she "actually" said is what I quoted her as saying.. whathehell Mar 2019 #154

Then WHY did she name it the Green NEW DEAL? appalachiablue Mar 2019 #158

You asked me about the New Deal, not the president. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2019 #115

Like.... loyalsister Mar 2019 #45

No, not like that.. whathehell Mar 2019 #46

But, those were different times is your argument loyalsister Mar 2019 #51

First of all, no one ne's expressing "unconditional admiration" whathehell Mar 2019 #63

Why not both? loyalsister Mar 2019 #84

She called the ENTIRE New Deal "racist", that's why whathehell Mar 2019 #97

It's an objective truth loyalsister Mar 2019 #113

The thing that burns me. Blue_true Mar 2019 #74

I don't get it loyalsister Mar 2019 #114

The problem is some people only want the good talked about. Blue_true Mar 2019 #118

There is no need to whitewash history loyalsister Mar 2019 #125

Wrong! Like that. Blue_true Mar 2019 #72

Lol! whathehell Mar 2019 #76

I agree Dem2 Mar 2019 #123

Retrospective "purity tests" maybe? whathehell Mar 2019 #166

FDR was a great man, but deeply flawed. MicaelS Mar 2019 #5

Some people criticize LBJ for not doing this or that. LBJ may have done all that was possible, empedocles Mar 2019 #10

I'm now convinced to vote for Hoover, Landon, Wilkie, and DEWEY!1 UTUSN Mar 2019 #11

Oh please. MicaelS Mar 2019 #138

Common tactic. Go to extremes when your argument is weak. Caliman73 Mar 2019 #177

Appalling is an Understatement! Fdr did not like Jews!!!! 4139 Mar 2019 #33

Many Jewish people were denied refuge here and sent back to Europe to die. Blue_true Mar 2019 #75

To be fair Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #136

With the exception of Henry Morgenthau Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #135

He was flawed, as is everyone, but he wasn't "deeply flawed". George II Mar 2019 #50

He had some major, major shortcomings. Blue_true Mar 2019 #77

I do not think he would survive. Nor would Eleanor. MicaelS Mar 2019 #139

He also didn't allow the SS St. Louis leftynyc Mar 2019 #134

In sports, commentators who are not necessarily the best or brightest, often at least note, empedocles Mar 2019 #7

Yip, sports types have fairly often surprised me into admiring them. Sometimes!1 UTUSN Mar 2019 #15

Which is why we need a New, Improved, Green, 100% Certified Pure FDR dalton99a Mar 2019 #12

Not to mention a god/being!1 UTUSN Mar 2019 #16

A just god dalton99a Mar 2019 #18

Oh my lord why are people so mad about these new congresspeople speaking the truth? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2019 #14

I usually try to answer questions that appear to be sincerely asked, so here goes: UTUSN Mar 2019 #21

Fair enough. She's still right. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2019 #24

+1 demmiblue Mar 2019 #66

She's still wrong, and lies by omission in whathehell Mar 2019 #161

When you can back up the blanket assertions you've made whathehell Mar 2019 #28

I lulz'd KG Mar 2019 #19

FDR saved the economy and bolstered the middle class nini Mar 2019 #20

+1. A historian's view: dalton99a Mar 2019 #25

Great article nini Mar 2019 #42

The Democratic coalition then is basically DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #69

If he had made an effort to totally franchise Blacks, Blue_true Mar 2019 #79

Unfortunately local govt and companies that ran many of the programs nini Mar 2019 #104

We got an end to segregation because the federal government stepped in. Blue_true Mar 2019 #106

It just never ends. George II Mar 2019 #31

Take heart, George. Mariana Mar 2019 #90

Growing up in South, I was always confused by the racists' love/reverence for FDR. George Wallace, Hoyt Mar 2019 #32

You got it right that racists became republicans. Blue_true Mar 2019 #82

It's not the least bit surprising, really. Mariana Mar 2019 #89

I revere FDR, just as I do Lincoln. Neither did EVERYTHING right. ON balance, they were exceptional hlthe2b Mar 2019 #34

So what's up with all the Cha Mar 2019 #35

Boom! mcar Mar 2019 #38

That's my fear. RelativelyJones Mar 2019 #100

If New Deal programs were more inclusive for minorities, Southern Democrats would never have allowed tritsofme Mar 2019 #37

Hmmm, I have a decision between doing what is morally right, Blue_true Mar 2019 #85

Meaningless blather. FDR lived in the world as it was, not as we'd like it to have been. tritsofme Mar 2019 #107

The world as it is now. Blue_true Mar 2019 #108

FDR massively shifted the Overton Window to the left and made subsequent progress possible. tritsofme Mar 2019 #112

Lyndon Johnson shifted the window to the left. Blue_true Mar 2019 #117

Without the New Deal, LBJ would have been unable to usher in his Great Society programs tritsofme Mar 2019 #122

Is she aware of who is in the WH? mcar Mar 2019 #40

Obviously Dems are the real enemy here nini Mar 2019 #41

TY, yes appalachiablue Mar 2019 #157

I guess the New Deal of the early 1930s just isn't "pure" enough. George II Mar 2019 #44

It grossly excluded entire groups of Americans. Blue_true Mar 2019 #87

That's just a minor impurity, I guess. Mariana Mar 2019 #116

I have read a lot of George's posts. He is a good man. Blue_true Mar 2019 #119

I used to hear this argument from libertarians DBoon Mar 2019 #52

Actually, Blacks had no other choice but support free market solutions. Blue_true Mar 2019 #91

I give her a chance to learn from experience lunatica Mar 2019 #55

I have a feeling this is way out of context. gtar100 Mar 2019 #56

I think you're absolutely right caraher Mar 2019 #129

+1 uponit7771 Mar 2019 #132

She is 100% right. Blue_true Mar 2019 #57

I think she is actually making a compelling point (even if the execution might leave something to be deurbano Mar 2019 #59

The product of our time argument infuriates me JonLP24 Mar 2019 #142

There is some good info in this thread (I'm not talking about the OP). n/t demmiblue Mar 2019 #61

The administration of the New Deal was racially discriminatory. liberalnarb Mar 2019 #68

And the first iteration of Social Security was sexist, in favor of women. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #88

Its entirely fair to talk about the pros and cons of the New Deal. Eko Mar 2019 #92

It's deride a democrat day on DU. yay! Kurt V. Mar 2019 #101

She is on the money. pangaia Mar 2019 #105

So what next? jcmaine72 Mar 2019 #124

At this point, I'd like to know what she *actually* said caraher Mar 2019 #128

Here you go: demmiblue Mar 2019 #146

Marvelous! caraher Mar 2019 #148

That's B.S. demosincebirth Mar 2019 #130

Sorry Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #137

Again with the "perfect" thing. Who/exactly is a perfect/anything (don't bring Beard in the Sky) UTUSN Mar 2019 #140

Context/ nuance?? Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #143

Since when do context/nuance equate with not-honest? UTUSN Mar 2019 #145

When certain things are demanded Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #147

Discussion ain't even possible without definitions in common, s'long!1 UTUSN Mar 2019 #150

True Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #151

Haha - even "s'long" 's definition doesn't work!1 UTUSN Mar 2019 #152

I never said so long. Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #153

That is why Truman came up with the fair deal JonLP24 Mar 2019 #141