General Discussion

KSNY

(321 posts)

118. Please don't ...

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 05:49 PM

Mar 2019

play the role the the right wing wants democrats and the left to play: squabbling among ourselves over the latest soundbite from an interview by a promising, young congressperson.
Let's not get excited over her choice of "irredeemable" It is absurd--particularly given some of the truly offensive comments from Trump, his minions, and his sycophants.

Capitalism without countervailing forces in government, the media, international regulatory agencies, and society IS irredeemable and does not function to improve society. As Ocasio-Cortez said, capitalism is a system that places the interest of capital (owners/shareholders) above those of humans (the society at large).
We need to strengthen the countervailing forces that have been weakened/bought out over the last 4 decades and build new ones (the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is a good example of the latter).
Our survival as a country and as inhabitants of the earth depends on it.

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Just when I was really starting to like her, AOC had to come out and say, [View all] pnwmom Mar 2019 OP

She really needs to slow her roll... ADX Mar 2019 #1

Problem is she craves the attention..... Historic NY Mar 2019 #31

With all due respect, that is a dumb argument LiberalLovinLug Mar 2019 #53

Reps love to quote Adam Smith's "invisible hand" but Smith wrote capitalism requires a tiered tax. TheBlackAdder Mar 2019 #169

If capitalism depends on infinite growth on a finite planet, it's not sustainable. Garrett78 Mar 2019 #2

There is that. calimary Mar 2019 #3

"If capitalism depends on infinite growth on a finite planet...." workinclasszero Mar 2019 #6

That is the whole basis of Marx's Capital. Miguel M Mar 2019 #17

if only she said "capitalism IN ITS PRESENT FORM is irredeemable" allgood33 Mar 2019 #21

+1. Plus the environmental and social externalities are borne by society rather than the businesses. JudyM Mar 2019 #199

No it does not everything has boundaries uponit7771 Mar 2019 #100

She's young Mr Tibbs Mar 2019 #163

She immediately followed up her statement on capitalism with riverine Mar 2019 #4

Governments using tax dollars to provide water and power to people is not a bad thing. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2019 #23

Yes. Greed and Power by any Name is still what it is. MarcA Mar 2019 #33

Bazinga! George II Mar 2019 #29

She's young, engaged and wants to make a much-needed difference. Give her a break; she clarified Evolve Dammit Mar 2019 #89

What am I missing? dpibel Mar 2019 #112

No. She complained about capitalism then immediately talked about riverine Mar 2019 #120

Oh, that is terribly droll dpibel Mar 2019 #126

Your belief is incorrect FBaggins Mar 2019 #158

"Can be" covers a multitude of sins dpibel Mar 2019 #183

She's not an anarchist. Cuthbert Allgood Mar 2019 #166

How do one stop the GREED which feeds capitalim?? riversedge Mar 2019 #5

How do you protect the needs of minorities under a system where pnwmom Mar 2019 #9

Tax it. But don't stop it. riverine Mar 2019 #13

Umm.... Regulations and laws. Adrahil Mar 2019 #174

I agree with her gopiscrap Mar 2019 #7

+1 n/t FreeState Mar 2019 #39

So do I. lilactime Mar 2019 #52

So what's the successful alternative? Drunken Irishman Mar 2019 #98

Me too. Joe941 Mar 2019 #171

And then what? Adrahil Mar 2019 #176

Area Dem Socialist is against Capitalism wellst0nev0ter Mar 2019 #8

The apologists kept arguing that Democratic socialism is REALLY Nordic country capitalism, pnwmom Mar 2019 #11

I don't think the apologists have any idea what democratic socialism really is. TwilightZone Mar 2019 #28

There's a reason Nordic style "socialism" helped break the world economy Tiggeroshii Mar 2019 #44

Pretttttty sure this is why people voted for her... WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2019 #10

Pretty sure it isn't. Up till now I have heard her and Bernie, over and over, pnwmom Mar 2019 #12

No it isn't. George II Mar 2019 #18

11% Horizens Mar 2019 #184

What kind of Capitalism or Socialism? safeinOhio Mar 2019 #14

That's the problem -- she didn't say we needed to reform capitalism, with stronger regulations. pnwmom Mar 2019 #15

My guess is, she is talking about Radical Free Market Capitalism. safeinOhio Mar 2019 #16

When did she mention "radical free market capitalism"? George II Mar 2019 #19

She didn't, just like the Right doesn't mention safeinOhio Mar 2019 #27

Nuances aside, the political reality if 'socialism' is a major problem for many dems in elections. empedocles Mar 2019 #61

That's not what she said. That's what you want to hope she meant. I was, too, pnwmom Mar 2019 #47

"But now she has flat out said that capitalism is irredeemable. No ifs, ands, or buts." melman Mar 2019 #83

Well...it does have the human race on the brink of extinction. roamer65 Mar 2019 #20

It also has a stranglehold on the way that more than one branch of our government operates. irresistable Mar 2019 #32

weird definition Lurker Deluxe Mar 2019 #97

Wait, what? X_Digger Mar 2019 #105

There's that climate thing dpibel Mar 2019 #115

Species on the brink of extinction are declining. We're not. X_Digger Mar 2019 #119

Would you prefer the planet is on the brink of becoming uninhabitable if we don't change our ways? femmedem Mar 2019 #131

"if we don't change our ways" contradicts the 'on the brink of', no? n/t X_Digger Mar 2019 #150

I don't see us changing our ways dramatically or quickly enough. femmedem Mar 2019 #154

I think we can take 5 deg C to the bank. roamer65 Mar 2019 #202

5c is terrifying. femmedem Mar 2019 #205

This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar Mar 2019 #22

The DSA wants to overthrow capitalism, so I guess it's in line. TwilightZone Mar 2019 #24

ir�re�deem�a�ble George II Mar 2019 #25

I give her a pass lunatica Mar 2019 #26

No more passes from me elfin Mar 2019 #35

Too bad you can't allow for mistakes from the young. lunatica Mar 2019 #40

Time will tell. Hope she learns quickly to beware inflammatory speech. elfin Mar 2019 #51

That's exactly my point. lunatica Mar 2019 #60

That's what they said about tRump. Butterflylady Mar 2019 #84

So you come up with the one example that doesn't lunatica Mar 2019 #91

"If she's as smart as we think she'll learn from them." OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #134

We are the people who think before reacting. lunatica Mar 2019 #136

That non-answer seems pretty reactionary. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #142

LOL! lunatica Mar 2019 #151

No more so than me failing to maintain a sense of humor... OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #152

Well good for you! lunatica Mar 2019 #153

I'd like to think it's her wording, not her attitude Duppers Mar 2019 #48

absolutely. and the media will help him win a 2nd term and ... SleeplessinSoCal Mar 2019 #80

She's still on a learning curve ismnotwasm Mar 2019 #30

Yes, she's still young. moondust Mar 2019 #41

It's really pretty patronizing melman Mar 2019 #45

Oh yeah. moondust Mar 2019 #56

Naive melman Mar 2019 #57

Ask the Danes moondust Mar 2019 #59

Ask them what? melman Mar 2019 #64

Ask them moondust Mar 2019 #66

What? melman Mar 2019 #72

Definitions definitely are terms of convenience to some ismnotwasm Mar 2019 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Cetacea Mar 2019 #50

I agree with her CousinIT Mar 2019 #34

Quite simple G_j Mar 2019 #36

We don't have a good definition of capitalism, either marylandblue Mar 2019 #37

Well said. Duppers Mar 2019 #49

She doesn't speak for the Democratic Party. She for herself and those that subscribe to those views still_one Mar 2019 #38

Poor choice of words PatSeg Mar 2019 #42

Yes, she really needs to be more bland, and focus-group her thoughts before voicing them. Demit Mar 2019 #77

No, of course not PatSeg Mar 2019 #162

I think being in a new job b/c a lot of people voted you into it is substantively different Demit Mar 2019 #172

We'll see PatSeg Mar 2019 #177

I agree with her on this in general, but her messaging is faulty... VOX Mar 2019 #43

Wow that sounds super scary melman Mar 2019 #46

Why? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #138

It actually doesn't melman Mar 2019 #140

Sorry, sarcasm is hard to convey through text, also, a lot of people... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #143

we are the Ferengui TalenaGor Mar 2019 #54

Wow, good one! DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #79

As far as I'm concerned, it is irredeemable. gtar100 Mar 2019 #55

Capitalism distorts Democracy, abuses workers and redistributes scarce resources... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #58

She's a gift to the Republicans. That keeps on giving. 9 dem4decades Mar 2019 #62

1 million %. malachi Mar 2019 #82

So you agree that our current economic system needs to continue as is? Cuthbert Allgood Mar 2019 #168

So you agree it's best to tell Rhee American people we should now ho the system? dem4decades Mar 2019 #186

About whom are you speaking? Cuthbert Allgood Mar 2019 #198

.... ehrnst Mar 2019 #191

I don't believe any Democracy can survive under a capitalistic system, it is always a struggle yaesu Mar 2019 #63

It seems to be surviving quite nicely in Norway and Sweden, both countries pnwmom Mar 2019 #67

That's probably true. Kurt V. Mar 2019 #65

Norway and Sweden are capitalist countries with strong safety nets. Are they irredeemable, too? pnwmom Mar 2019 #68

Norway and Sweden are looked at here as teh dreaded socialists! nt DirtEdonE Mar 2019 #69

That's how some socialists want to promote them. But they have private property pnwmom Mar 2019 #75

Private property isn't the same as who owns the means of production. Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #104

Sweden and Norway have embraced free market capitalism hack89 Mar 2019 #125

Define "Free Market" Capitalism please... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #135

This sub-thread is about Sweden and Norway hack89 Mar 2019 #160

Ah yes, one of the main symptoms of Capitalism, the need for a large underclass of exploited labor.. Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #188

As the knowledge economy grows and the industrial economy changes due to automation hack89 Mar 2019 #194

Eventually yes. Predatory capitalist can't be held back much longer. and those countries are already Kurt V. Mar 2019 #73

We've already seen the end result of the socialist experiment, and it wasn't pretty. n/t pnwmom Mar 2019 #76

agree and disagree. china is still around for instance. I'm no socialist without redefining the Kurt V. Mar 2019 #85

She's not calling for a hybrid model. She just said capitalism was "irredeemable." n/t pnwmom Mar 2019 #107

i don't have the answer. but i pretty much agree with her and you don't. fine. i can see by your Kurt V. Mar 2019 #113

She actually is calling for a hybrid model if you read more of what she said. femmedem Mar 2019 #129

I will look for your post. But if true, I hope she learns to be more careful pnwmom Mar 2019 #132

Here you go: femmedem Mar 2019 #133

Thank you. Yes, the full context makes it very different. But I hope she learns pnwmom Mar 2019 #141

You know what they say about a lie traveling halfway across the world femmedem Mar 2019 #159

That would defeat the purpose of the OP. nt. Mariana Mar 2019 #203

Exactly melman Mar 2019 #204

I figured if I made the suggestion, the OP would either correct or reveal itself. femmedem Mar 2019 #206

The U.S. is a mixed-market economy. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #145

Using that argument also holds true for Capitalism, does it not? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #106

I think capitalism as practiced in our country needs strong reforms. I wouldn't say capitalism is pnwmom Mar 2019 #108

capitalism always devolves into oligarchy nt DirtEdonE Mar 2019 #81

That's a theory, of course. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #147

Capitalism is only a theory as well DirtEdonE Mar 2019 #173

Balderdash. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #178

Looks to me like russia evolved DirtEdonE Mar 2019 #189

Capitalist case in point: DirtEdonE Mar 2019 #175

The nerve! ronnie624 Mar 2019 #70

Her assessment is not really wrong DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #71

She's correct though. bitterross Mar 2019 #74

It's UNCHECKED capitalism that's irredeemable rocktivity Mar 2019 #78

You knew AOC is a 'democratic socialist' before, right? Eric J in MN Mar 2019 #86

Denmark isn't a socialist country. BS is wrong about that. comradebillyboy Mar 2019 #117

Capitalism is irredeemable Devil Child Mar 2019 #87

Oh, God bless her. liberalnarb Mar 2019 #88

The definition of capitalism Yavin4 Mar 2019 #90

Another day, another "Sit down and shut up" post Bettie Mar 2019 #92

She is the future Politicub Mar 2019 #93

She did not call for the abolition of capitalism. femmedem Mar 2019 #94

but then that would be putting her words in context, and we can't have that. Amyishere Mar 2019 #102

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, context matters. femmedem Mar 2019 #116

Wow melman Mar 2019 #110

I think that shows that it's the ideology that she previously defined she thinks irredeemable muriel_volestrangler Mar 2019 #148

pnwmom, I detest labels as they saidsimplesimon Mar 2019 #95

I saw that, but ... left-of-center2012 Mar 2019 #96

Here We Go, Eating Our Own Again DallasNE Mar 2019 #99

+1 n/t area51 Mar 2019 #124

I completely agree with ACO and... debsy Mar 2019 #101

What she said was ..."TO ME.....(the rest) Fullduplexxx Mar 2019 #103

Capitalism should be controlled like a nuclear reactor. Beartracks Mar 2019 #109

I fell for this shit when they pulled it on Hillary Clinton. Iggo Mar 2019 #111

Agree with you on this. KSNY Mar 2019 #122

Youthful exuberance. LakeArenal Mar 2019 #114

Please don't ... KSNY Mar 2019 #118

Well said! And welcome to DU. n/t femmedem Mar 2019 #128

BS...I was self employed for 40 years,guess I'm one of those evilllll "capitalists. Bengus81 Mar 2019 #121

I had not heard this but somehow I am not surprised😹 Meowmee Mar 2019 #123

We all complain about Ds wasting their time acting like R-lite centrists stopbush Mar 2019 #127

AOC May Not Understand that Every Country in the World is a Mixture of Capitalism and Socialism dlk Mar 2019 #130

Socialism isn't when governments do stuff, that's a myth. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #137

Capitalism is the engine of growth radius777 Mar 2019 #139

That seems not very accurate... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #146

Your argument can be turned right on its head. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #149

Where is your evidence for your assertions? Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #187

Too easy. OilemFirchen Mar 2019 #195

Raw capitalism does what you say but mixed capitalism radius777 Mar 2019 #155

Can't legislate greed...irresponsibility.. Maxheader Mar 2019 #144

She also said ashling Mar 2019 #156

As it is now practiced, capitalism is a cancer Mr Tibbs Mar 2019 #157

Some folks just won't get it until Battery Park is under water. thewhollytoast Mar 2019 #161

What did capitalism have to do with the trees on Easter Island? TwilightZone Mar 2019 #181

You are so right. thewhollytoast Mar 2019 #182

Your concern is noted. Cuthbert Allgood Mar 2019 #165

.... ehrnst Mar 2019 #192

What did she say wrong? HopeAgain Mar 2019 #167

AOC is going to be a liability, period. Puzzledtraveller Mar 2019 #170

She's wrong about the irredeemable in theory - but it might be harumph Mar 2019 #179

AOC is simply a Representative of NY's 14 district - there a lot of Congress people that have walkingman Mar 2019 #180

Post removed Post removed Mar 2019 #185

Plus she won't stay off my grass!!! QC Mar 2019 #190

! KG Mar 2019 #193

!!! progressoid Mar 2019 #197

There is nothing in the Constitution Dyedinthewoolliberal Mar 2019 #196

You should take a moment to get up to speed on "Capitalism." rgbecker Mar 2019 #200

Blasphemy! gtar100 Mar 2019 #201