General Discussion

harumph

(3,089 posts)

46. Insufficiently regulated capitalism is unsustainable over time.

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 09:48 PM

Mar 2019

Capitalism can be restrained and rules made and maintained by law. It's just that
we don't do that very well. And...sufficient regulation is not even possible without a critical mass of voters
who are educated about basic market/labor theory. That's the problem in a nutshell.

You make a good point regarding automation. They'll (the wealthy humans in control of the now automated
labor) will probably try and "exterminate" us somehow. Maybe they'll create a pandemic virus and
inoculate themselves. Maybe they'll find a way to isolate themselves and let everybody else
fend and fight amongst themselves. I think that would be risky unless they have a very good
security state/system protecting them...so probably the former solution...or a version thereof.

No, I'm not kidding.

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Capitalism is not sustainable over the long term. [View all] Yavin4 Mar 2019 OP

It's been around for 500 years so far. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #1

So, 500 years in human history is not that long. Yavin4 Mar 2019 #3

It is a long time in the lifetime of humans. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #6

Modern humans have been around for 200,00 years. Yavin4 Mar 2019 #10

But we don't think in terms of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #16

we haven't had civilization for 200K years qazplm135 Mar 2019 #102

Try 5,000... brooklynite Mar 2019 #28

And how many market failures have we seen? sfwriter Mar 2019 #36

Capitalism isn't just the stock market. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #72

No it hasn't, Capitalism is a product of the Industrial revolution, so maybe 200 years so far... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #58

I think most economic historians Codeine Mar 2019 #69

And some are willing to say that there are PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #71

Where is the line between Mercantilism and Capitalism? Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #75

That's a fair enough question. Codeine Mar 2019 #93

True, though Mercantilism I would say is a type of Proto-Capitalism... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #95

I was trying to be generous, by the way, after all, if Capitalism does date back that far.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #81

I would entirely lay most of that Codeine Mar 2019 #94

Yeah, true, it does seem like Capitalism, at the very least, requires the existence of a large... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #97

Slavery and genocides existed long before capitalism (n/t) thesquanderer Mar 2019 #108

True but I was rltalking about recent chattle slavery and European imperial genocides. Nt Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #121

Sort of. But it hasn't been the world's dominant economic system for that long. DanTex Mar 2019 #112

it has lasted longer than other systems JI7 Mar 2019 #2

Not as long as hunter/gatherer societies of early man. n/t Yavin4 Mar 2019 #4

im referring to economic systems based on how we live now JI7 Mar 2019 #7

Not really, its just the most recent in a long line of differing systems that humans have used... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #59

Earlier systems lasted a long time. Codeine Mar 2019 #70

I'm pretty sure that feudalism lasted longer. DanTex Mar 2019 #113

What do you propose to replace it with? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #5

That's what we're faced with. Yavin4 Mar 2019 #11

We need socialism. Joe941 Mar 2019 #23

As practiced where? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #25

Exactly. Adrahil Mar 2019 #38

Democracy is a political system. Socialism is an economic system. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #44

Some thoughts: PETRUS Mar 2019 #77

And before: DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #80

There have been, but most of the time they were crushed by one of two forces... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #98

Thanks for the reply. Some clarification: PETRUS Mar 2019 #106

They experimented with voluntary collectives in Israel. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #107

Quoting John Maynard Keynes Sgent Mar 2019 #8

He said that to make fun of economic forecasters marylandblue Mar 2019 #17

Capitalism? Aussie105 Mar 2019 #9

There's no such thing as "greedy" capitalism Yavin4 Mar 2019 #12

Yes. In our form of capitalism exboyfil Mar 2019 #76

Capitalism fits humans like a glove. roamer65 Mar 2019 #13

Trade and Industry have always been for profit, even in the Middle Ages marylandblue Mar 2019 #14

unregulated capitalism is brutal and suicidal Hermit-The-Prog Mar 2019 #15

We don't have capitalism Puzzledtraveller Mar 2019 #18

there are frogs singing outside Hermit-The-Prog Mar 2019 #21

Greed is the only rule of our safeinOhio Mar 2019 #20

If automation is killing jobs and we are getting more automated every year - riverine Mar 2019 #19

The UE rate is currently low because of low interest rates Yavin4 Mar 2019 #29

:). Boy,...no. It might help to read Hortensis Mar 2019 #22

Exactly. They have privileged classes in socialist societies. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #26

I did do a search on capitalism. Yavin4 Mar 2019 #30

uhhhh Lurker Deluxe Mar 2019 #57

Nazis were not socialists. That is a false right wing talking point. aidbo Mar 2019 #66

Yes! Importantly, socialist supporters did HELP right-wing extremists Hortensis Mar 2019 #114

No. I was replying to a person who seems to think nazis were socialists - they were not. aidbo Mar 2019 #116

I've forgotten the socialist co-leaders' name, but it's in Hortensis Mar 2019 #117

Again, that's a false talking point. The contemporary socialists were not fooled.. aidbo Mar 2019 #120

This is false on its face, fettered capitalism can be beneficial uponit7771 Mar 2019 #24

Who does the "fettering"? Yavin4 Mar 2019 #31

The government. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #32

And who makes sure that the right people control government? Yavin4 Mar 2019 #33

We don't get to vote? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #34

Your vote has been engineered not to count Yavin4 Mar 2019 #41

If capitalism and socialism were on the ballot the former would win. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #43

AMEN AND AMEN!!! I've been studying this for some time and every one of those have ended uponit7771 Mar 2019 #55

Says the Russians, we've seen it work correctly too many times uponit7771 Mar 2019 #54

So.... I'm waiting for your plan Adrahil Mar 2019 #39

I don't have a plan. But we should start a discussion of a post-capitalism nation. n/t Yavin4 Mar 2019 #42

Well, start then. Adrahil Mar 2019 #48

We need a gradual movement away from capitalist control of govt. to citizen control. Yavin4 Mar 2019 #52

I support almost all that. Adrahil Mar 2019 #53

If you are saying government should be the employer of last resort I agree with you. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #73

I agree with the title of your post (#52) here. MH1 Mar 2019 #74

Capitalism is the worst economic system except for all the others..... brooklynite Mar 2019 #27

Free Market Capitalism is the ongoing transfer of ALL of the democratisphere Mar 2019 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author Foggy Head Mar 2019 #37

Jesus knew this 2000 years ago, and I say that as an atheist, but Republicans need to read the bible Doodley Mar 2019 #40

Unregulated "greed without conscience" moondust Mar 2019 #45

Insufficiently regulated capitalism is unsustainable over time. harumph Mar 2019 #46

You cannot regulate capitalism because the capitalists control the government Yavin4 Mar 2019 #50

Then it sounds like your issue isn't capitalism... thesquanderer Mar 2019 #109

We can change that. We have to work together to stop the trend toward fascism. raging moderate Mar 2019 #122

Socialism is not sustainable over the long term. pnwmom Mar 2019 #47

Mostly because they rely on their natural resources or a large amount of "free trade".... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #61

And what would socialism rely on? It would also need natural resources or trade with other countries pnwmom Mar 2019 #62

True but such trade, without there being a profit motive, wouldn't have to be exploitative... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #78

That would only make theoretical sense in a case where we had a single socialist government, pnwmom Mar 2019 #88

I would call it a misnomer to call it a "Socialist" government, Democratic is preferable... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #90

Yes. You described a government that sounds like what they had in Communist China. pnwmom Mar 2019 #91

Wait, how is that like Communist China? Be specific. Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #96

YOU just said it. Did someone else write your post? pnwmom Mar 2019 #99

So China was a worldwide stateless economy? What are you talking about? Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #101

Interesting post and responses. I have herd that late stage capitalism is State Monopoly c-rational Mar 2019 #49

Capitalism has become almost a religion in the US. Deregulation is destroying Capitalism. walkingman Mar 2019 #51

Since Capitalism in North America and Western Europe, GulfCoast66 Mar 2019 #56

Capitalism as practiced now needs to brutally oppress the underclasses... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #60

Capitalism Can Survive erpowers Mar 2019 #63

Capitalism is simply the private ownership of the means of production for profit by said owners Yavin4 Mar 2019 #64

What about the Capitalists that make wind turbines, solar panels, AncientGeezer Mar 2019 #92

Without govt subsidies, those companies would not invest in environmentally targeted entities Yavin4 Mar 2019 #100

That's silly on it's face....Refer to the UN data.... AncientGeezer Mar 2019 #104

Capitalism is great at creating wealth. It's absolutely shit-horrible in DISTRIBUTING that wealth. HughBeaumont Mar 2019 #65

The ultimate goal of capitalism is the same as a game of Monolopy. DirtEdonE Mar 2019 #67

Great questions! kentuck Mar 2019 #68

Yes it is. But what we have in the US is not capitalism, it is capitalist socialism which is not cbdo2007 Mar 2019 #79

You seem to not know what words mean, what are you talking about? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #82

We have a mixed economy. No need to over explain it. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #83

Its a very weak Social Democracy, but it certainly isn't Socialism... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #84

Social Security is an example of a socialist program as is Food Stamps and Medicaid.* DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #85

Its Social Welfare and might be supported by Socialists, but isn't, in itself, Socialist... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #86

I agree 100% DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #87

I was referring more to corporate welfare... cbdo2007 Mar 2019 #103

I see what you meant. MLK said somewhat the same thing. aidbo Mar 2019 #118

how long is long term? Inkfreak Mar 2019 #89

Not very long. n/t Yavin4 Mar 2019 #110

Neither is any other system based on unit labor JCMach1 Mar 2019 #105

No, we are headed to a world without PAID work. raging moderate Mar 2019 #111

Money was the stupidist human invention ever. hunter Mar 2019 #115

Ummm.... okay... Adrahil Mar 2019 #119