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PatrickforO

(14,573 posts)
45. Interesting. Now, I like a mixed socialist and free market, a la northern
Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:05 PM
Mar 2019

Europe.

I suppose philosophically (or ideologically) you could call me a Social Democrat. Or, a Democratic Socialist.

Ah, but the question you raise is whether Social Security can fairly be called a 'socialist' program. While my answer is clearly 'yes,' it seems best to bring in a third party.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/122916/are-social-security-benefits-form-socialism.asp. After defining a bunch of terms, they make the following conclusion:

Nevertheless, because the American government plays such a dominant role in the U.S. Social Security system – deciding how much and when employees and employers pay into the system, how much individuals receive in benefits when they get them, and preventing almost everyone from opting out – it seems fair to call the Social Security program a form of socialism.


So there you have it. Funny the Republicans are vowing this country will 'never go socialist.'

But don't worry. This country is no longer a republic, and may only loosely be called a 'democracy.' No, what we have now is a fascist oligarchy, where a very few people own most of the wealth, and the politicians are owned by PAC money, lobbies and corporations. They have no political courage because they are on the gravy train. Most are so afraid of not being reelected they won't lift a finger to enact legislation that actually makes our lives better.

Instead, we get a giant tax cut for billionaires and corporations, as if they didn't already have enough, that has essentially gutted our treasury and will ultimately force massive cuts to Social Security, Medicare, all safety net programs, basically all non-military discretionary spending.

And, we have a rather sinister administration in power that is very much like an old mafiosi caporegime. Donald is the Don, Eric and Don Jr. are Fredo and Santino, Ivanka is Connie, and Jared Kushner is Carlo Rossi. But they are small potatoes. They report to bigger bosses, Russian oligarchs.

Then we have Pence and the holy-rollers, who would impose a 'christian' Sharia law upon us, while still letting the oligarchs have our treasury - as long as abortion is illegal, they are fine with that.

Finally, there is a pretty large group, mostly in the Tea Party and Trumpers, who genuinely believe that there is nothing worth saving about the republic that is the United States in specific and western democracies in general. This group is purposely and purposefully tearing down our institutions - consider the gutting of the EPA, the criticisms of the press, Betsy DeVos sabotaging the student loan forgiveness program, Trump publicly disagreeing numerous times with national security leaders. This is a purposeful wrecking of our republic - an effort to tear the whole thing down.

So, about half of our party is quaking like jelly at the prospect of being labeled 'socialist,' and the other half is saying, "Whatever you might call it, we need a green new deal now, healthcare, expanded Social Security and debt-free college."

We are in for, I think, a time of upheaval. The only ones who can possibly save this republic from being torn apart, and its pieces handed to international oligarchs while we ourselves are made into wage slaves, and then real slaves, is the new kids in Congress. The ones like AOC, Omar and Tlaib, who are speaking truth to power because they don't care if they are one-term Representatives - they want to wake up the people to what's going on and give us back our power.

By way of prognosticating, IF, and it is a big IF, we discover how powerful we the people really are, stop being afraid of these greed-heads and band together to make some real reforms, we might well save those things that are worth saving, and make those things better that need improvement.

But, no, I won't split hairs with you on whether or not Social Security and Medicare are forms of socialism or not. I don't care. What I care about is having more say in policies that affect me. I'm sick of my tax money being routed to corporate profits or billionaires instead of being used for programs that help me, my children and my grandchildren. Medicare for all Americans, a Green New Deal. Expanded Social Security. Infrastructure programs so that we can rebuild/upgrade as part of the Green New Deal. Heavily subsidized childcare, early childhood education, a K-12 system that's the envy of the world, and debt-free college and graduate school.

And to make all this possible, let us pull out the root cause of the evil that besets us: the primacy of the shareholder doctrine. If corporations want to do business here, we need to force them to change their charters - put workers on their Boards of Directors, and consider the welfare of workers, consumers and the environment equally with shareholder profits.

My...wasn't that the verbal gush? It is how I feel though, after 60 years of working my ass off in this capitalist utopia and getting nickel and dimed so much day after day, year after year, that I have less purchasing power now than I did back in the 90s. That isn't good enough. We are better than that.
People in this country are so misinformed about socialism. octoberlib Mar 2019 #1
Why Millennials look to Norway. Sweden, Finland & Denmark with envy. DownriverDem Mar 2019 #24
Yes but it's not socialism. The Scandinavian countries are always at the top octoberlib Mar 2019 #43
Social security. greymattermom Mar 2019 #2
Social Security isn't "socialism." CrossingTheRubicon Mar 2019 #14
Ah but it is...socialism, that is. PatrickforO Mar 2019 #23
No. Social Security was a way to force people to save money. wasupaloopa Mar 2019 #39
Interesting. Now, I like a mixed socialist and free market, a la northern PatrickforO Mar 2019 #45
My reply was that it wasn't nationalized anything. wasupaloopa Mar 2019 #52
I like Booker, but DownriverDem Mar 2019 #25
I wouldn't say "it's the system that Europe has and it works great" FBaggins Mar 2019 #3
It is arguable that the bankers who came along from the IMF in '09 PatrickforO Mar 2019 #46
The Democratic Party should leave the word "social" out of their identity altogether Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #4
That would mean accepting the misleading phrasing of the GOP. DetlefK Mar 2019 #5
That's just politics. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #8
You know what will cost votes? DetlefK Mar 2019 #18
Or folks DownriverDem Mar 2019 #26
I agree. It's a negative connotation even though it may have some positive attributes. Firestorm49 Mar 2019 #22
There are 86 million Millennials. They now outnumber Boomers in the workplace. PatrickforO Mar 2019 #47
The Democratic Party is not socialist. That's the point. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #48
That's one strategy Roy Rolling Mar 2019 #6
We could counter with Fascism and Nazism but who would cover that lancelyons Mar 2019 #7
My thoughts exactly. SergeStorms Mar 2019 #31
Democrats are about Unity, NOT Uniformity. Different Americans must learn to live with difference. ancianita Mar 2019 #9
'Democrats are about unity". SergeStorms Mar 2019 #34
I hear you. We fuss, sure, but we don't take opponents' ancianita Mar 2019 #42
Americans are smart enough to understand the difference. nycbos Mar 2019 #10
Surely you jest! Lucky Luciano Mar 2019 #12
This is very good. We could also call it "Civilization" or "Cooperation" or "Society" ProfessorPlum Mar 2019 #11
Why must we re-define or even define our system and/or our Party. MOST of us (even on the right)... George II Mar 2019 #13
We must redefine simply because some of us have done the research... DemocracyMouse Mar 2019 #36
Got that, George? lapucelle Mar 2019 #55
I think its best that iamthebandfanman Mar 2019 #15
Ironic since the DSA backs the Democratic Socialist dictatorship in Venezuela to the hilt, shouting: CrossingTheRubicon Mar 2019 #40
We should embrace Liberalism, which includes progressive well-regulated capitalism. CrossingTheRubicon Mar 2019 #16
Yes indeed. comradebillyboy Mar 2019 #33
Republicans Have Muddled The Distinction DallasNE Mar 2019 #17
AS a Democratic Socialist here are two people that explain my "socialism" reported by O'Donnell turbinetree Mar 2019 #19
Don't quibble over precise definitions, just hit them in the face with what they are doing JHB Mar 2019 #20
Or, just pointing out the Fascism on the other side Joe Nation Mar 2019 #21
Bingo. SergeStorms Mar 2019 #35
Liberalism isn't good enough? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #27
We had a president whose administration was informed by the principles of social democracy. lapucelle Mar 2019 #56
Third way neoliberalism is not at all comparable to social democracy. Celerity Mar 2019 #61
Yes it is. lapucelle Mar 2019 #64
3rd way politics is a synthesis of centre left and centre right Celerity Mar 2019 #65
The problem with using buzzword phrases lapucelle Mar 2019 #66
I am not using 'buzzwords' at all. I am correctly (from widely accepted academic definitions) Celerity Mar 2019 #67
You're not "correcting" anything. You're disseminating an idiosyncratic interpretation of a term. lapucelle Mar 2019 #68
Just don't nominate an avowed Socialist kennetha Mar 2019 #28
Agree TheSocialDem Mar 2019 #29
Read the title, looked to see who posted. Hortensis Mar 2019 #30
Well... what is the political platform of the Democrats? DetlefK Mar 2019 #37
Exactly kennetha Mar 2019 #38
Okay. But let's call ourselves Democratic-Republicans Hortensis Mar 2019 #41
Sorry I'm a Democrat, not a Social Democrat. comradebillyboy Mar 2019 #32
I like your strawman of socialism that is contradicted by the first paragraph of the wiki articled. Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #44
What strawman? DetlefK Mar 2019 #54
You were literally wrong from Line 1, and your own link proved it... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #57
It's the first line. DetlefK Mar 2019 #58
No, you said: "Socialism is the control of all property by society as a whole." Which is... Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #59
On small scales it works. No doubt. But not on big scales. DetlefK Mar 2019 #60
That argument also applies to political systems, does it not? Humanist_Activist Mar 2019 #62
I am for parliamentary democracy. DetlefK Mar 2019 #63
Democrats should stop discussing label and get it on the table ooky Mar 2019 #49
I'm sold. I'm fully on board with Social-Democracy. jcmaine72 Mar 2019 #50
We have to stop letting the GOPers frame the debate and choose the terms. dawg day Mar 2019 #51
start calling pro putin GOP commies. pansypoo53219 Mar 2019 #53
I say we just embrace socialism - its the future! Joe941 Mar 2019 #69
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