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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
35. A few things
Mon May 27, 2019, 02:35 PM
May 2019

First, I'm not a "skeptic" This suggests that there is one accepted truth - those believing that impeachment will strengthen Congress' hands in the courts - and that any view that diverges from that truth is suspect.

In fact, there is no singular "truth" about this topic because we have no idea whether an impeachment would give Congress more leverage in the courts or not, unless it's actually tried (and even then, we wouldn't know unless we had an identical non-impeachment situation to compare it with, which won't likely happen).

So, no, I'm not a skeptic. I just have a different theory on the matter, a position that is no less rational than Conway's.

Second, I believe that the case law Conway is relying on is not applicable to this matter. If you read the full blog that you cited to, you saw that he bases his position largely on the principles and holding of Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities v. Nixon (1974). However, although Conway cites to the Court's finding that this committee's investigation was more a "more confined legislative investigation" than an impeachment inquiry and, therefore its request for documentation didn't merit the same deference as an impeachment inquiry, that case actually turned on the fact that an impeachment inquiry was already occurring simultaneously with the Select Committee's request. The fact that an impeachment process was already happening is what made the difference.

In the circumstances of this case, we need neither deny that the Congress may have, quite apart from its legislative responsibilities, a general oversight power, nor explore what the lawful reach of that power might be under the Committee's constituent resolution. Since passage of that resolution, the House Committee on the Judiciary has begun an inquiry into presidential impeachment. The investigative authority of the Judiciary Committee with respect to presidential conduct has an express constitutional source. Moreover, so far as these subpoenaed tapes are concerned, the investigative objectives of the two committees substantially overlap: both are apparently seeking to determine, among other things, the extent, if any, of presidential involvement in the Watergate 'break-in' and alleged 'cover-up.' And, in fact, the Judiciary Committee now has in its possession copies of each of the tapes subpoenaed by the Select Committee. Thus, the Select Committee's immediate oversight need for the subpoenaed tapes is, from a congressional perspective, merely cumulative. Against the claim of privilege, the only oversight interest that the Select Committee can currently assert is that of having these particular conversations scrutinized simultaneously by two committees. We have been shown no evidence indicating that Congress itself attaches any particular value to this interest. In these circumstances, we think the need for the tapes premised solely on an asserted power to investigate and inform cannot justify enforcement of the Committee's subpoena.


Of course, none of us know what would happen. However, because we don't yet know, I think the course that the House is taking now is the best since, once an impeachment inquiry is opened, many other avenues will close off and there'll be no going back. And so, in my view - and in the view of many others - it would be rash to rush into an impeachment inquiry based solely on a hope that doing so will allow access to additional information that is very likely available preliminary to and separate from an impeachment proceeding when such an action would affirmatively shut down other possible tools Congress has at this point.

Thanks for sharing Conway's piece with me. It's an interesting perspective and led me to revisit some material that was also interesting and helpful!

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The stonewalling would continue redstateblues May 2019 #1
Information gathering through hearings, investigations, etc. greatauntoftriplets May 2019 #2
That's all happening now. StarfishSaver May 2019 #4
Isn't that really what's going on now? greatauntoftriplets May 2019 #6
It is more serious than just an investigation scarytomcat May 2019 #3
What powers does the House get in an impeachment inquiry that it doesn't otherwise have? StarfishSaver May 2019 #5
Haven't you heard? The House would get the Magic Wand. CaptainTruth May 2019 #11
What powers are those? They already have subpoena power. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #8
good explanation stopdiggin May 2019 #10
Thanks for providing this research and excellent explanation StarfishSaver May 2019 #12
Arguably a judge might be more inclined to release grand jury information The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #14
Exactly StarfishSaver May 2019 #17
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2019 #21
Last week's rulings are completely relevant StarfishSaver May 2019 #24
Executive privilege and attorney-client privilege are privileges that aren't based on The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #31
What powers? N/T lapucelle May 2019 #28
I think it would give the Congress more leverage.. kentuck May 2019 #7
How would it give them more leverage? StarfishSaver May 2019 #15
You could always write the multiple Democrats of House Judiciary BeyondGeography May 2019 #30
A few things StarfishSaver May 2019 #35
You see THIS is what most of us here do NOT undertstand. bluestarone May 2019 #9
It would focus the citizenry davekriss May 2019 #13
No. It's a big assumption to draw that callingit impeachment will suddenly rivet the public StarfishSaver May 2019 #16
I disagree, I believe it is a safe assumption davekriss May 2019 #18
I keep relating it back to Watergate. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #19
"Has more to do with what they are uncovering than whether they're called impeachment" StarfishSaver May 2019 #20
I always thought they were impeachment hearings davekriss May 2019 #33
The 1973 hearings were held by a Senate select committee The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #34
A lot of people would feel better, but that's about it. n/t Captain Stern May 2019 #22
Question here. bluestarone May 2019 #23
The only constitutional requirement is that the Chief Justice preside StarfishSaver May 2019 #25
Here are the Senate's rules for impeachment trials: The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #26
The Senate doesn't indict because an impeachment trial isn't a criminal proceeding. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #27
TY i get confused a lot on this bluestarone May 2019 #29
The House makes the accusations; the Senate decides whether The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #32
The question is whether we'd get a faster, stronger, response from the courts if Trump pnwmom May 2019 #36
It would be hard to beat the speed and strength we got from the courts last week StarfishSaver May 2019 #37
That's true. We'll need to see how the Supreme Court handles this now, before we know. nt pnwmom May 2019 #38
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